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  • BDD Moderators: Keif’ Richards

Codeine pharmacology & ceiling dose myth

Anon54

Ex-Bluelighter
Joined
Jun 11, 2010
Messages
861
this is quoted from the codeine page at www.wikipedia.org

Pharmacology
Codeine was once considered to be a morphine prodrug, since it was thought that its analgesia was due in large part to its O-demethylation to the much more powerful opiate, morphine. However, more recent research shows that 80% of codeine is conjugated with glucuronic acid to Codeine-6-glucuronide (C6G), which is the metabolite that is most responsible for codeine's analgesia, although the relative contributions of codeine-6-glucuronide and morphine to analgesia are unclear and highly debated. Only 5% of the dose is O-demethylated to morphine, which in turn is immediately glucuronidated at the 3- and 6-position and excreted renally.[9][10] A portion (~ 15% ) of the codeine is N-demethylized to norcodeine.[11] It is less potent than morphine and has a correspondingly lower dependence-liability than morphine.[12] Like all opioids, continued use of codeine induces physical dependence and can be psychologically addictive. However, due to its low potency, the withdrawal symptoms are relatively mild compared to closely related opioids such as hydrocodone and oxycodone. As such, codeine has a lower physical dependence liability than most other opioids.[13]

A dose of approximately 200 mg (oral) of codeine must be administered to give analgesia approximately equivalent to 30 mg (oral) of morphine (Rossi, 2004). However, codeine in general isn't used in single doses greater than 60 mg (and no more than 240 mg in 24 hours).[14][15] When analgesia beyond 60 mg of codeine is required, stronger opioids such as hydrocodone or oxycodone are utilized.[16] When used to relieve dry coughs, codeine is used in doses ranging from 5-15 mg and is usually mixed as a syrup with other drugs such as promethazine[17] which is an antihistamine with strong sedative activity (some formulations come with different types of antihistamines),[18] guaifenesin which is an expectorant,[19] and other drugs. When codeine isn't effective in relieving stronger dry coughs, then the opioid hydrocodone is used instead.

Codeine is metabolized to C6G by uridine diphosphate glucuronosyl transferase UGT2B7, and, since only about 5% of codeine is metabolized by cytochrome P450 CYP2D6, the current evidence is that codeine-6-glucuronide (C6G) is the primary active compound.[20] Claims about the supposed "ceiling effect" of codeine doses seemed to rest on the assumption that high doses of codeine saturated CYP2D6, which prevented further conversion of codeine to morphine, which is simply incorrect since we now know that codeine-6-glucuronide (C6G) is the main metabolite responsible for codeine's analgesia.[9] There is also no evidence that CYP2D6 inhibition is useful in treating codeine dependence,[21] though the metabolism of codeine to morphine (and hence further metabolism to glucuronide morphine conjugates) does have an effect on the abuse potential of codeine.[22] However, CYP2D6 has been implicated in the toxicity and death of neonates when codeine is administered to lactating mothers, particularly those with increased 2D6 activity ("ultra-rapid" metabolisers).[23][24]
[edit] Pharmacokinetics

The conversion of codeine to morphine occurs in the liver and is catalysed by the cytochrome P450 enzyme CYP2D6. CYP3A4 produces norcodeine and UGT2B7 conjugates codeine, norcodeine, and morphine to the corresponding 3- and 6- glucuronides. Approximately 6–10% of the Caucasians, 2% of Asians, and 1% of Arabs[25] are "poor metabolizers"; they have little CYP2D6, and codeine is less effective for analgesia in these patients (Rossi, 2004). Srinivasan, Wielbo and Tebbett speculate that codeine-6-glucuronide is responsible for a large percentage of the analgesia of codeine, and, thus, these patients should experience some analgesia.[10] Many of the adverse effects will still be experienced in poor metabolizers. Conversely, 0.5-2% of the population are "extensive metabolizers"; multiple copies of the gene for 2D6 produce high levels of CYP2D6 and will metabolize drugs through that pathway more quickly than others.

Some medications are CYP2D6 inhibitors and reduce or even completely block the conversion of codeine to morphine. The most well-known of these are two of the selective serotonin reuptake inhibitors, paroxetine (Paxil) and fluoxetine (Prozac) as well as the antihistamine diphenhydramine and the antidepressant, buproprion (Wellbutrin, also known as Zyban). Other drugs, such as rifampicin and dexamethasone, induce CYP450 isozymes and thus increase the conversion rate.

Since codeine is a prodrug, metabolism differences have the opposite effect. Thus an extensive metabolizer may have adverse effects from a rapid buildup of codeine metabolites while a poor metabolizer may get little or no pain relief. CYP2D6 is dysfunctional in 7% of white and black Americans, resulting in reduced metabolism of codeine. Other individuals may have two or more copies of the CYP2D6 gene, resulting in rapid metabolism of the target drug. CYP2D6 metabolizes and activates codeine into morphine, which then undergoes glucuronidation. Life-threatening intoxication, including respiratory depression requiring intubation, can develop over a matter of days in patients who have multiple functional alleles of CYP2D6, resulting in ultra-rapid metabolism of opioids such as codeine into morphine.[26][27][28]

The active metabolites of codeine, notably morphine, exert their effects by binding to and activating the μ-opioid receptor.


So let me get this right. about 5% of codeine (or 10% Ive read on other websites, which is it?) is metabolized to morphine up until about 450mg & the main analgesia is the metabolite CG6 which is still metabolized no matter what the dose is.
Is this correct?

What I dont understand is why it says that the conversion to morphine doesnt add to codeine's abuse potential but later on says it has weaker analgesic (which gives codeine its abuse potential) effect in some ppl who take certain meds & cant metabolize codeine into morphine very well. See what i mean. it contradicts itself.
Does morphine have a role in codeine's effect or is it all due to CG6?

I've just dosed 800mg of codeine & it I really cant tell if it's much stronger than 400mg. It feels stronger but it might be due to me having an empty stomach or placebo.

Anyone had any experiences with dosing higher than the ceiling dose?
Be careful as the lowest reported lethal dose is 12mg/kg. (about a 900mg for an average sized person) which also doesnt make sense because the LD50 is suppose to be 800mg.
 
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I don't know about codeines pharmacology, but wikipedia isn't correct 100% of the time. It's written/edited by anyone who feels like it. Anyone can edit it.

re: Ceiling dose, i've tried dosing above it and it's a waste. Your body doesn't metabolise the rest. I've also found redosing within 2 hours doesnt do anything either.
 
When codeine is metabolized into morphine the enzyme CYP2D6 is inhibited resulting in less efficient conversion. There is no exact ceiling dose since the amount of CYP2D6 varies from person to person, some lack the enzyme entirely.

Edit: Forgot to mention that CYP2D6 is the enzyme used to metabolize codeine into morphine.
 
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After 4 hours, yes it would have some effect as most of the codeine will be gone by that point. But you'd still be wasting around 200mg probably more because there will still be a small amount of codeine left in your system.
 
When codeine is metabolized into morphine the enzyme CYP2D6 is inhibited resulting in less efficient conversion. There is no exact ceiling dose since the amount of CYP2D6 varies from person to person, some lack the enzyme entirely.

Edit: Forgot to mention that CYP2D6 is the enzyme used to metabolize codeine into morphine.

While this is true, it is more complicated than that, as mentioned by the OP - codeine is also metabolised into codeine-6-glucuronide (C6G) via a different pathway - and vastly more than is converted into morphine (which is 5-10% only). The morphine will still play a role though and is the reason why some people are good responders to codeine and some are poor - depending on their CYP-2D6 activity.

Despite the wiki article, evidence is contradictory and a little lacking at the moment, but it looks highly likely that C6G plays a significant role in codeine's opioid effects - and there is no 400mg ceiling for this metabolic pathway. So both do have a role, although it looks like C6G is the main player.

In my experience you can go a lot higher and get stronger effects - I've taken up to a gram and I know people who have taken more (HR: only do this if you have an appropriate tolerance and a lot of antihistamines to hand!!)

Redosing codeine is really pretty ineffective I have found, even if I've waited 6 hours.. it still works, but the effects are depleted. Not entirely sure why.
 
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Damned if I didn't make a post about this in AusDD just an hour or so ago. Here is what I posted there:

Mr Blonde said:
The article is trying to make the argument that the morphine conversion is not the important part for analgesia, recreational effects and addiction just that it 'does have an effect'. They are trying to make the argument that C6G is the major product for these effects, which is a view point not that well supported by the currently available evidence.

The article didn't used to be worded like that, I saw it changed a couple of months ago or something to this. Take a look at source 21, it's a study where they attempted to use fluoxetine (Prozac) to inhibit CYP2D6 and thus reduce the use of codeine by those addicted to it. Whoever wrote this part of the article is trying to use that as evidence that C6G is the important metabolite for the effects of codeine, but it is not a good indicator as you are not achieving total inhibition of the enzyme. I used codeine for a while alongside fluoxetine a few years back, and the effects were significantly reduced. The same thing happens if I take promethazine before codeine, as promethazine is an inhibitor of CYP2D6 as well. It can make three boxes feel like two or less.

This is just my personal experience and isn't a scientific study, but from the results I see in myself it would appear as though CYP2D6 mediated metabolism of codeine into morphine is the major contributor to effects, with C6G and other metabolites having probably minor effects that have not been shown in humans yet.

We've had a small discussion about this over there; there is not enough evidence in my opinion to say that C6G is contributing in a major way to codeine's effects. There have been a couple of small studies done on rats, and things have been known to turn out differently in these animal experiments compared to people. Another problem as I see it is that the liver is creating these glucuronide metabolites in order to create a more water soluble substance that is easier for the body to excrete. It could very well be that this resulting compound with increased water solubility has an impaired ability to cross the blood-brain-barrier. If an experiment could be done with radio-labelled C6G, then we could see if it actually does cross the BBB in a significant way. We could also see how much more rapidly this metabolite is being excreted then, say, morphine, un-metabolized codeine, other metabolites, etc...
 
^ Damn I remember you telling me that, I had forgotten :D
 
well i had 400mg when i woke up this morning & it felt the same as 800mg yesterday but without all the itching. I dunno about it being stronger but i can agree that if ya gunna be taking more than 1g an antihistamine would be a good idea. Maybe I had a good effect today cuz i took it first thing in the morning

Ive never taken more than 800mg. Im interested to know if anyone has taken really large doses & if it has increased the effect.
 
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