MDPV comedown

[Genetic Freak]

I've heard the comedown on high doses of MDPV can be pretty harsh, I was wondering what dietary supplementations such as L-tyrosine, could be taken to prevent this..?

I have read: MDPV functions as a dopamine-norepinephrine reuptake inhibitor (NDRI), IE: it inhibits the plasmalemmal transporter-mediated reuptake of a neurotransmitter from the synapse into the pre-synaptic neuron, leading to an increase in the extracellular concentrations of the neurotransmitter and therefore an increase in neurotransmission.

I'm assuming a dopamine depletion will occur at some point and that would be the cause of the comedown effect.... Normally L-tyrosine is converted to L-dopa by tyrosine hydroxylase, L-dopa is rapidly converted to dopamine by L-amino acid decarboxylase.... I had read that when taking MDMA, L-tyrosine and L-phenylalanine wasn't effective at quickly increasing Dopamine levels because tyrosine hydoxylase, a key enzyme in the metabolic pathway which converts the amino acids into neurotransmitters, is usually saturated..... Is this the same with MDPV...???

Would taking L-dopa by-pass tyrosine hydroxylase saturation and increase dopamine levels sufficiently to decrease depression associated post-MDPV.. If this is indeed the cause..?

Your comments are welcome..

Thanks....

 

[atrollappears]

Everyone I know of who has tried L-tyrosine to recover from amphetamine use says that it is extremely effective, and I find the same. IIRC right after MDMA (whole tissue, not released) dopamine levels are actually increased; I have no idea why but I guess it could be explained by increased tyrosine hydroxylase activity. This is not the case with amphetamine though, so if tyrosine hydroxylase is correspondingly not saturated then this would explain the anecdotal beneficial effect of tyrosine. As far as MDPV goes, it's more pharmacologically similar to amphetamine than MDMA, and I think there's a good chance that it will help. (And by "good chance" I mean I really have no idea but I don't see why it wouldn't.) Gotta try it I guess.

 

[sekio]

MDPV is a reuptake inhibitor, it does not share the same pharmacology as amphetamines.

Reuptake inhibitors make the dopamine your body naturally releases have more of an effect and last longer. (Methylphenidate/Ritalin, cocaine, MDPV, mephedrone are all in this class)
Releasing agents (amphetamines) cause your body to dump stores of neurotransmitters into the synapse and hence cause depletion. (MDMA, amphetamine, meth are in this class)

Dopamine depletion doesn't usually occur with reuptake inhibitor use, what happens is the receptors become less sensitive to dopamine. So taking L-dopa might provide some mild effect, but it's not the correct solution to your problem and will only cause your dopamine receptors to desensitize more (or will make them take longer to regain normal functions).

What you really need is time for those receptors to get back to normal.

I thought I commented on a similar thread to this - the only real things that stop MDPV comedowns are:
1. Moderation! (Don't take huge doses! don't redose either)
2. Sleep
3. Food, vitamins, hydration
4. excercise

More dopamine is not the solution to everything, by the way - if you start supplementation with L-dopa to bypass the saturated tyrosine hydroxylase you may run into side effects like muscle tics or compuslive behaviour.

In the medical profession, generally benzodiazepines like Xanax/Ativan are used for "comedowns" if you're feeling tweaky, but they are a short-term band-aid and can form dependence so are usually just used to sedate patients.

 

[atrollappears]

Oh looks like I misread your post and thought you were talking about tyrosine. I agree with sekio that further screwing with your DA system is not in your interest, and that a healthy lifestyle is often the best form of harm reduction :D I would still try tyrosine though, since it's a much less brute-force method than l-dopa and as such won't cause your brain to release extra dopamine, but rather replenish its stores (if they are indeed depleted; sekio, why do you think MDPV wouldn't deplete dopamine to some extent?).

 

[Genetic Freak]

MDPV is a reuptake inhibitor, it does not share the same pharmacology as amphetamines.

Reuptake inhibitors make the dopamine your body naturally releases have more of an effect and last longer. (Methylphenidate/Ritalin, cocaine, MDPV, mephedrone are all in this class)
Releasing agents (amphetamines) cause your body to dump stores of neurotransmitters into the synapse and hence cause depletion. (MDMA, amphetamine, meth are in this class)

Dopamine depletion doesn't usually occur with reuptake inhibitor use, what happens is the receptors become less sensitive to dopamine. So taking L-dopa might provide some mild effect, but it's not the correct solution to your problem and will only cause your dopamine receptors to desensitize more (or will make them take longer to regain normal functions).

What you really need is time for those receptors to get back to normal.

The only real things that stop MDPV comedowns are:
1. Moderation! (Don't take huge doses! don't redose either)
2. Sleep
3. Food, vitamins, hydration
4. excercise

More dopamine is not the solution to everything, by the way - if you start supplementation with L-dopa to bypass the saturated tyrosine hydroxylase you may run into side effects like muscle tics or compuslive behaviour.

In the medical profession, generally benzodiazepines like Xanax/Ativan are used for "comedowns" if you're feeling tweaky, but they are a short-term band-aid and can form dependence so are usually just used to sedate patients.

I agree MDPV is a norepinephrine-dopamine reuptake inhibitor (NDRI), therefore it blocks the transporter action, which leads to increased extracellular concentrations of (NE) & (DA) and an increase in neurotransmittion...

You emphasise nutrition and exercise, could you please elaborate which particular vitamins/minerals and why, plus your reason why for stating exercise..?

Thanks....

 

[MrFister]

You're correct MDPV is a norepinephrine-dopamine reuptake inhibitor (NDRI), therefore it blocks the transporter action, which leads to increased extracellular concentrations of (NE) & (DA) and an increase in neurotransmittion...

You emphasise nutrition and exercise, could you please elaborate which particular vitamins/minerals and why, plus your reason why for stating exercise..?

Thanks....

Exercise is most likely for holistic benefits to the body and mind. Mdpv caused me to experience extremely sharp mood swings and I was over sensitive to nearly everything. Exercise will help your body raise its metabolism and therefore provide more energy for you. Increased energy equals healthier state of mind me thinks.


My usual stimulant supplement stack is pretty easy, but it felt like it helps me so much. I use these:
Omega 3s - 1.6 g
Magnesium - 500 mg
Vitamin b12 - 250 mcg
Vitamin b6 - 200 mcg
Vitamin d - 25 mcg
Piracetam - 2.4 g

And then benzos or valerian as needed. Melatonin knocks me out great, and it's a fantastic antioxidant. Pretty much mandatory for health.

 

[FlippingTop]

Melatonin is fantastic. A B-vit complex is also a good move, and magnesium is excellent for stimulants.

I take the Omega 3-6-9 fish oils and find them very effective!

Piracetam is also another of my favourites

Piracetam, low dose DXM (just enough to antagonise NDMA receptors), B-vit complex, Omega 3-6-9, a multi vit and l-tyrosine is my usual regeim. It makes a Massive difference to my body/mind.