Psychedelics and enlightenment.

[dezz]

If someone tripped once, had a profound experience and after 2 years of no psychedelic use still says it changed him, yes I'll take his word for it.

 

[eLeSaH]

Why do you think it should change after two years? I think it would even manifest more as when your thinking changes your way of acting changes, too. Why should your memory of that ever change? Do you think if it's the most profound experience in my life, will I just forget about it?

Also why just when tripped once? It looks like you are awaiting something like a pill that would directly work or something. You also don't drive 120mph to work just to get there fast. I think there are enough lessons in life about patience.

From my point of view there also needs to be enough old emotional supressed stuff to be faced. But through the facing I accept and it is was not a negative experience, it was part of all the experiences that led me to the "now" me. At least it was like that for me.

You know, not much will change for an individual just because you don't take his/her word for it Make your own experience.

 

[dezz]

I make my own experiences stone cold sober, I don't draw any significant realizations from intoxicated moments, which make up a tiny bit of your life. Maybe 0.05 to 5% of your time on earth is spent tripping, don't try to justify tripping and pleasure seeking behaviour with "improving" yourself.

It would be the same as me saying I feel good on cocaine and bettering myself from the memory of the experience, it doesn't make sense. Maybe the indian chiefs knew the power psychedelics had over their people, maybe they started the whole enlightenment deal to keep faith and loyalty among their people, funny how the leaders never indulged themselves. Honestly it's not any different from wacky religion. Ofcourse then the white man came and figured out booze to be a way better substance for controlling people.

 

[nopipesdfw]

I find that psychedelics or dissociatives can frequently produce "Eureka!" moments in my brain, especially when I meditate, play guitar, or piano.

I think relatively enlightening is a fair word for them. They have given me legit realizations that I still know to this day, but they are personal, physical, and moral reasoning that all stem back to me.

Whether some kind of deity or even just a plain being is transmitting or intercepting thoughts when on psychedelics is not something I can prove, it's also something I would not try to convince a sane person of. It could just be my brain behaving in bizarre ways, and I find the existence of complex forms as amazing as the brain to be a better argument for the existence of a supreme deity.

 

[eLeSaH]

So what's the deal? I wrote my experience not only for you but for also for the others who care.

"Maybe 0.05 to 5% of your time on earth is spent tripping, don't try to justify tripping and pleasure seeking behaviour with "improving" yourself."
- How do you know how often I am tripping and in which way does tripping need to be justified anyway? There are even studies nowaday which say that psilocybin for example "can Improve Psychological Health Long Term" (http://healthland.time.com/2011/06/16/magic-mushrooms-can-improve-psychological-health-long-term/) . Do you think it's a big conspiracy against you or what? just kiddin.
From wiki:
"One-third of the participants reported that the experience was the single most spiritually significant moment of their lives and more than two-thirds reported it was among the top five most spiritually significant experiences. Two months after the study, 79% of the participants reported increased well-being or satisfaction; friends, relatives, and associates confirmed this. They also reported anxiety and depression symptoms to be decreased or completely gone."

Do cocaine and psychedelics provide the same subjective effect? Do cocaine and psychedelics have the same mechanism of action? I don't think so :D

"Psychedelics have it all, they tell you what you want to hear, makes you feel what you want to feel, fuck you where you want to be fucked and gives you a (fake) sense of enlightenment and wisdom."
- From your own logic: If you don't have such experiences, maybe you don't want such experiences.

Also I still don't understand what you understand from the word enlightening. What do you mean? What would you expect?

"Maybe the indian chiefs knew the power psychedelics had over their people"
- So you think psychedelics are there to control people? :D Do you feel controlled by something? I think you don't know much if you talk about booze beeing there to control people instead of things like media.

You seem to view everything negative. People stated their opinions. They can have their own opinion as much as you can have yours. So what's the deal about trying to make everything look bad?

You don't need psychedelics to have good lessons by thinking. Even movies have good lessons like: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dZfGTL2PY3E

 

[romiir]

You don't need psychedelics to have good lessons by thinking. Even movies have good lessons like: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dZfGTL2PY3E

Good advise/philosophy. =]

Lol eLeSah I damn near flame you in one thread and praise you in another...

I'm told that Psychedelic's can definitely make you relive your past, bad or good. Heheh

Edit: Though in the end, I'm told it also can help you come to terms with the past, either way. Especially if you have a companion for your journey.

 

[dezz]

Maybe my view has been bitter on psychedelics lately. I'm going to be tripping soon, perhaps on Thursday and I'll be taking 10 or 15 grams of fresh sclerotia (truffels), they are pretty potent.
I will be doing this alone, and will take an attempt to do some soul searching. It's been a long time but I want a more clear understanding on what it's doing for me and hey, perhaps something good can come of it.
Any last advice on dosage and setting is welcomed.

 

[the wheat's gotta]

Maybe my view has been bitter on psychedelics lately. I'm going to be tripping soon, perhaps on Thursday and I'll be taking 10 or 15 grams of fresh sclerotia (truffels), they are pretty potent.
I will be doing this alone, and will take an attempt to do some soul searching. It's been a long time but I want a more clear understanding on what it's doing for me and hey, perhaps something good can come of it.
Any last advice on dosage and setting is welcomed.

Do you think you already wanted to revisit it but wanted to have a good reason? Regardless man it was admirable of you to stay dedicated to the thread all the way through. May whatever happens happen as it should. I myself want to trip tomorrow evening fairly heavily. Peace.

 

[eLeSaH]

Hey guys, I hope you will have a nice experience, no matter what happens.
For the setting: If you want to trip alone, make yourself a comfortable place where you can lay easily down. I'm not sure what kind of person you are or who you are but I think it would be even nice to go in it with an intention. I'm not sure what your intention could be. Think for yourself on that part
From my experience music is really an influence when it comes to trips, so here are the kind of music I like to listen on trips. I'm not sure how to make a youtube playlist and I don't want to create a youtube account so here I will just post some links where you could click through:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pIrLA04ull0
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CR3dM-GlZK8
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sBVi2TCHb64
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tWJyt9OpKpI
imee ooi has some nice things:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t8mWj-qfCW8
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ciYO7mWq3Og
instrumental music is also great:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jcr89Np5xMI
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UjCDJR0-VVg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OAbFVtIRnMU
and other stuff that worked good for me:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hwZevtk2AJk

and else click through the buddha bar stuff:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jRGgErXy29E

Beside that just don't open your eyes and go with it. Try to feel the music. Have no fears

 

[dezz]

I have tripped alone before with a bigger dose, same setting. I have no real intention other then deep introspection and see what comes out of it. I have amazing 2 hour+trance sets ready so music isn't a problem.
I think I'm going with 10 grams fresh with this one, this should give me a nice level 3 trip. (Truffels are more potent then shrooms). If I'm honest I AM quite nervous about it, my last real mushroom trip was about a year ago so I'm not sure what to expect.

 

[eLeSaH]

I hope you get something out of it!
If you ever get interested in other music at that time you know where to find it

 

[Survived Abortion]

If someone tripped once, had a profound experience and after 2 years of no psychedelic use still says it changed him, yes I'll take his word for it.

A stupendously fallacious arguement. This is like saying "I learned grammar and spelling in school, but 20 years later I'm using internet shorthand on an iPhone, so my english language tuition was pointless". Bollox. You learned grammar and spelling then, and it enabled you to write whatever you wanted then, which through an infinitely complex series of causal events affected what situation you find yourself in now. Just because you are not writing cute poems and essays on parchment with a fountain pen anymore doesn't mean what you learned was completely irrelevant to what you are doing now.

Obviously, everything is impermanent. As I go through life, I fluctuate through periods of greater awareness and lesser awareness. The general trend is towards greater awareness because I attain for continuous self-betterment, but nothing stays still in the way that you are expecting people to prove. That goes for everything in existence, not just people's experiences with psychedelic drugs.

They often have a hard time describing what actually changed them. It's because you gained NOTHING.

Speak for yourself mate. I gain enormous benefits from psychedelic use. One of those benefits is the pure fun, euphoria, and amazement at the time of the trip itself. That alone should easily be enough to justify their use (if they even need justifying in your eyes). Other benefits are intellectual, emotional, and spiritual in nature, and last way beyond the trip itself.

Here, I'll list some:

I have come to appreciate music more, to the point of having braingasms with my favourite music. I have gained a massive increase in visuo-spatial awareness and creativity. I have learned to meditate and breathe properly because of psychedelics (not by reading books). In fact I initially learned basic breathing techniques and even yoga mudras purely from intuition/cell memory catalyzed by these states. It was only after researching more in those directions that it all made sense.

I have learned to take the time to appreciate the beauty of everything in the moment. I have learned that love is the purest essence of everything. I have learned to watch myself and see when I am being untrue to myself, or when my thoughts are getting me in trouble. I have understood karma, and interdependent co-arising. I have learned that the time is now. I have learned that there is far more to existence than what my preconceived ideas of reality lead me to beleive.

I have an increased efficiency for cognitive fucntioning and holistic knowing. I have understood what is to be "out of balance" and "in balance", since you only see it when you have a moment of pure harmony. I understand Yoga, whereas before I thought it was just people making shapes with their bodies.

I've understood how the mind works 100% in union with the body, and how that translates to what is happing in the reality around and about me. I've learned to let go of my existential guilt (guilt about existing) and to let it roll and go with the super-euphoric orgiastic fluid joyride of existence. I felt stuck like a raisin in a sticky pudding. Now my mind feels like a greased up baby in a waterslide.

I understand why the stranger aspects of physics make sense. Nassim Haramein's "Schwartzchild Proton" makes sense to me after psychedelics. The prospect of one proton (and therefore any particle or given amount of mass) containing the entire mass of the universe within it is staggering at first, but it makes so much sense. I would never have understood such things without having engaged in the exploration of the psychedelic space. The universe is now a very different place to how I used to see it. Whereas I used to see the universe as an illogical mess of unfathomable proportions, I now see it as much smaller and closer to the heart than I could ever have imagined. It was always a fantasy of mine to understand "things" much better, and I wasn't making any progress until I started using psychedelics. And now meditation and yoga has put on the afterburners and taken it to a whole new level of extreme.

All of these things have lead to enormous happiness and euphoria in my life, a quantum leap from where I was at before I started using psychedelics.

To expect a psychedelic drug experience to hand you enlightenment on a plate is pure fantasia, and it shows that your expectations of the psychedelic experience are completely distorted. Just because I'm not "enlightened" (an impossibility), does not mean that my psychedelic drug experiences have not been worthy or beneficial. On the contrary, my experiences have benefitted me in ways I just can't even begin to elucidate up on. I'm sorry if you can't understand that. If they did not benefit me, I wouldn't use them. I'm sure there are people who would think that base jumping is a worthless pursuit, but ask the people who engage in it. They gain enourmous benefits, even if it's just for the sheer amazing rush of the activity.

 

[dezz]

SA I understand what you're saying. You are one of the few who has been able to correctly put the "changes" on paper. To expect a psychedelic drug experience to hand you enlightenment IS pure fantasia, but that is basically what most users are saying! "I took a high dose and now I understand!" I don't buy that, MDMA gives me harmony, love, euphoria and I feel like I am the most basic, inner version of me.

However, the next day it is gone. I think it's safe to say that the drug was just having it's effect on me. What is so laughable at the idea that psychedelics don't work the same way? I do believe the psychedelic experience can be used to better yourself, but in the end it's up to you to make the change, it's up to you what you do with the knowledge you gained, and what to integrate into your life and what should be tossed away.

What if you would sit down and TRULY make an effort to deeply think about yourself, the world and your life SOBER? It would take abit more time and effort but essentially you could come to the same revelations you get from a psychedelic trip. Ofcourse it won't be as fun hehehe.

 

[Sepher]

*snips*

eLeSaH ( why d'you make me do that alternating caps thing? T'is very hard to type. Have some consideration for my ageing fingers! ) . . .

There's some nice tunes there, but don't you find stuff you'd listen to quite happily on one drug is the last thing you'd listen to on another? I found stuff I'd have listened to on acid and shrooms is the last thing I'd wanna listen to on aMT, and a similar playlist on MXE would have me reaching for Media Player wondering how the fuck it worked and what's this mouse thing and how to skip to something that didn't send me into a crazy, dark place that on other psyches would be 'Oh, wow, I seriously get it' territory.

The Verve's A Northen Soul for instance is a seriously deep concept album I can strongly relate to mindset-wise on shrooms; can't stand to listen to it on aMT or MXE. Weird how different drugs change your musical tastes, introducing their own qualities to the substance in question.

 

[dezz]

I know sepher, on shrooms, for me, some deep melodic trance is the way to go. It litteraly drifts me away as the uplifting melody carries me into heavenly euphoria. damn can't wait for my trip haha

 

[eLeSaH]

eLeSaH ( why d'you make me do that alternating caps thing? T'is very hard to type. Have some consideration for my ageing fingers! ) . . .

There's some nice tunes there, but don't you find stuff you'd listen to quite happily on one drug is the last thing you'd listen to on another? I found stuff I'd have listened to on acid and shrooms is the last thing I'd wanna listen to on aMT, and a similar playlist on MXE would have me reaching for Media Player wondering how the fuck it worked and what's this mouse thing and how to skip to something that didn't send me into a crazy, dark place that on other psyches would be 'Oh, wow, I seriously get it' territory.

The Verve's A Northen Soul for instance is a seriously deep concept album I can strongly relate to mindset-wise on shrooms; can't stand to listen to it on aMT or MXE. Weird how different drugs change your musical tastes, introducing their own qualities to the substance in question.

Hehe you can just type lsh next time I think you have more experience with different substances and music. Good music sounds always good for me, I try not to care about genres and so on because every genre has good music. For trips I love calm, chillout, meditative music. I just wanted to share what I listen to mostly when tripping, for example I would never have heard of The verve if you didn't mention it Thank you, that sounds good.
I tried some different psychedelics but music always has just been like making the atmosphere of the trip. I mostly just listen to instrumentals and stuff, I'm not good at listening to lyrics even in my native language.

@dezz: Have fun and good luck. Don't forget to come back and tell us how it was

 

[medical_meccanica]

To expect a psychedelic drug experience to hand you enlightenment IS pure fantasia, but that is basically what most users are saying! "I took a high dose and now I understand!" I don't buy that, MDMA gives me harmony, love, euphoria and I feel like I am the most basic, inner version of me.

However, the next day it is gone.

Sure, the temporary effects of the MDMA high are gone, but are you not changed by the experience? Perhaps you can come to more of an understanding about what kinds of emotions are possible (intense harmony, love, euphoria, etc.) After having a glimpse of them during the drug experience, surely you could have a better 'understanding' of what to aim for when sober.

What is so laughable at the idea that psychedelics don't work the same way?

Dingdingding!

I do believe the psychedelic experience can be used to better yourself, but in the end it's up to you to make the change, it's up to you what you do with the knowledge you gained, and what to integrate into your life and what should be tossed away.

Of course, we have reached a point where our adult evolution requires participation. We can steer it in the direction we want to go in. Perhaps psychedelics help with this, by opening our eyes to how many possible directions there are.

What if you would sit down and TRULY make an effort to deeply think about yourself, the world and your life SOBER? It would take abit more time and effort but essentially you could come to the same revelations you get from a psychedelic trip. Ofcourse it won't be as fun hehehe.

Effort, maybe... Time, definitely. I want to have it all in this life. A lot of the effects of psychedelic liberation would be achievable while sober, but I don't want to spend 40 years in a monastery avoiding distracting relationships in order to find them. I want to have it all, and psychedelics help me with the balance between 'enlightenment' or 'active spirituality' and achieving a social and professional life.

 

[dezz]

Dosing as we speak, wish me well guys!

 

[dezz]

Okay so, this has been an amazing trip and still is, the peak has subsided and I thought of this thread somehow. I wen't into it full force completely letting go, and I'm given a very different outlook on things that are troubling me for some time now.

I can't believe my previous post was 3 hours ago. It honestly feels more like 3 days. One of the moments that blew me away was looking at my cat. The little creature is 19 years old and I've practically known him all my life. Looking at him just now was something else. I could see how old he truly was, I could see him struggling to connect with us, to tell us what's going on with him, it seems that until now I've never really seen the bad shape he got in recently. It kind of makes me sad, but also happy that I KNOW now. If that makes sense

Anyway I still have an hour or two of tripping to go! Peace.

 

[eLeSaH]

"I can't believe my previous post was 3 hours ago. It honestly feels more like 3 days."

Yeah that's quite an interesting effect and I can't really describe logically why that happens. But it does subjectively.

Time has no meaning as subjectively waaaaay more time passed.

I am happy for you that you had a great experience.