Drugs in front of kids?!?

[Alex000]

I stress, unless there exists clear and present danger, I think it would be a violation of human rights as well as detrimental to the children, to have them removed from their father's custody.

 

[captaincaveman]

Is there an outpatient program of any type there after detox or does he have someone to take him to meetings each day in the beginning?

I work full time so I can't take him. He has a key worker who he talks to about his drug use. He's pretty candid with his keyworker, tells her about his usage and she stills fills his script for methadone. I think he needs a good spell in rehab and plenty of aftercare. Alex, I'm not trying to violate anyones liberties, I'm actually concerned about his health and the childrens well being. His blood pressure is thro the roof which I understand could go up even more when detoxing off heroin.

 

[Dave]

Alex-- what about the child's rights? IMO, those trump the father's rights.

 

[Missykins]

Alex-- what about the child's rights? IMO, those trump the father's rights.

Agreed.

 

[DexterMeth]

Finding it amusing that his kid takes a drag on his cig? Call CPS now imo.

 

[n3ophy7e]

This whole situation just makes me SO sad to read about

A 3-year old child DEFINITELY knows what's going on. It is extremely irresponsible for your friend to be getting high right in front of his child, and even making him smoke his cigarette? This guy obviously is not fit to be a good parent right now.

But I agree that taking his child(ren) away is not going to solve anything.

I honestly don't know what to suggest. I have no experience with a situation like this, I don't know what the best course of action would be.

Good luck to him, and to you, and most importantly to his kid

 

[DexterMeth]

I hate getting the county involved, but I mean, laughing that his kid takes drags off his cig, when he's already smoking heroin in front of them? This guy sounds like a poster child for why you should call CPS.

I would get relatives involved first, if they don't have a clue what's going on.

 

[yteek]

Either way this isn't a good scenario, I feel it'd be worst if you don't do something about...a addict in his position isn't going just jump out of it on his own at this point... generally speaking.

 

[painenduser]

I stress, unless there exists clear and present danger, I think it would be a violation of human rights as well as detrimental to the children, to have them removed from their father's custody.

Alex, I don't want to debate this or anything but your comments concern me. It seems like your saying that well let's wait until something bad happens. That is not good parenting nor is right. I think you are over looking a few major points here.

The purpose of child protective services is to intervene when the child is in an unsafe environment and hopefully BEFORE things go horribly wrong. Also your talking about this guys rights, what about the childs right? The child doesn't know any better. Also I am pretty sure that I read by the OP that he has already he has put this kid in danger, nodding with a lit cigarette and thought it would be funny if the kid took a drag off his cigarette. This to me does not sound to me like he has the child's best interests. Again the purpose of CPS is to get the kid away before something happens like he's nodding drops his lit smoke and now the house is in flames. The guy is leaving that kid in danger every single time he get's high. Please then tell me why you think that this is acceptable behavior. It danger is practically smacking everyone in the face except for you and this dude. You know how many kids have either been killed, injured, or kidnaps while in the care of someone who was high or drunk? 2011 alone had a number of cases like this that were high profile cases. The mere fact that he's getting high while watching the kid IS putting the child in danger. Common sense would be to remove the child before it's to late. I think it is silly to say that the kid is not in any danger. I don't want you to take this as if I am bashing you because I am not, but I am telling you that you are as blind as this guys is. I think what your saying is pretty naive. Personally I am getting tired of watching the news about kids who wind up sometimes dead because of parental / guardian neglect. The whole situation is down right sad and when something does happen we will all have to say "told ya so!". In fact I am dropping off this thread as I have already said what needed to be said and I think you and your buddy there being very naive, and a bit ignorant. What about if this were your kid he was watching and while doing so he constantly high, he probably drives the kid around in the car high. You would actually let him watch your child like this? I somehow doubt it, but then again I dont know you so perhaps you wouldn't have a problem with that, but I think the majority of people would agree that this is clearly not a safe environment for this kid. I mean I certainly hope nothing happens\and I wish to be proven wrong as I don't want anything to happen, but it sounds like you would rather wait until something bad happens that could have clearly been avoided. Best of luck OP.

 

[Allein]

Given it sounds like he is their only current guardian, with their mother being dead, I have to say of it were me I would call the correct services (I'm in the UK so its probably called something different).

I have 2 kids and neither of them have ever seen me take anything other than prescribed medication, when I was on quite a bit of prescribed medication I even mad sure I didn't take them in front of them just because I didn't want them seeing me take all those pills. Its was bad enough them having to visit me when I was in a secure unit, they were 3 and 8 at this time.

IMO someone who is doing an 1/8th of H a day and acting in that way, I mean actually feeding a child a cigarette FFS, needs help and is clearly needs to be assessed as to whether or not he is able to care for that child (or children as it sounded like there were others)

This is not aimed at the OP, but its all very well standing back and saying this and that, lets wait until the kid finds his dad nodding out on the sofa and decides it might be a good idea to see what chewing up a little baggy is like.

The child is the most important person in this situation the user / Dad is making his own decisions and regardless of his grief or other problems he is still responsible for them. The child has no choices, if we don't look after our children we have no future.

 

[Mel22]

This is absolutely an unsafe, toxic environment for children!

The father has rights, yes, but that does NOT include having children and then putting them in danger. All children deserve a safe, secure and loving home - end of story.

Call CPS immediately. Whilst foster care isn't ideal in all cases, I feel that getting the correct agencies involved to assess the situation and likely intervene is the lesser of two evils here.

Once the children are removed from his care, he has the option to focus on himself, clean up his act and get his shit together. He can put in the leg work to get his children back, and get himself to a point where he can adequately care for these kids and provide them with what they need.

Kids in an environment with a father constantly doing H, methadone etc. whilst he is the only person responsible for them? That's utter bullshit. A toddler and a kid with special needs - what happens when something goes wrong and daddy is smacked out on the couch unable to help? Could be fatal.

Seriously, call CPS and let them deal with it - this is out of your hands. Don't turn a blind eye though..intervene, you could be saving these kids' lives.

 

[captaincaveman]

This is absolutely an unsafe, toxic environment for children!

The father has rights, yes, but that does NOT include having children and then putting them in danger. All children deserve a safe, secure and loving home - end of story.

Call CPS immediately. Whilst foster care isn't ideal in all cases, I feel that getting the correct agencies involved to assess the situation and likely intervene is the lesser of two evils here.

Once the children are removed from his care, he has the option to focus on himself, clean up his act and get his shit together. He can put in the leg work to get his children back, and get himself to a point where he can adequately care for these kids and provide them with what they need.

Kids in an environment with a father constantly doing H, methadone etc. whilst he is the only person responsible for them? That's utter bullshit. A toddler and a kid with special needs - what happens when something goes wrong and daddy is smacked out on the couch unable to help? Could be fatal.

Seriously, call CPS and let them deal with it - this is out of your hands. Don't turn a blind eye though..intervene, you could be saving these kids' lives.

Right, that has been my thinking to be honest. Asked on here to make sure there's no other alternative. Frankly, I can't see one. His late partner's best friend (who suggested care) actually works for the civil service so I can ring her and let her know exactly what's been going on. This works because then he can't accuse me of betraying him (he can be quite a scary bloke) and the woman knows the system and will be able to improve the kids situation. So thanks for the replies, I'm going to do something (been praying on my mind for a while tbh).

 

[captaincaveman]

. It seems I think you and your buddy there being very naive, and a bit ignorant. What about if this were your kid he was watching and while doing so he constantly high, he probably drives the kid around in the car high. You would actually let him watch your child like this? I somehow doubt it, but then again I dont know you so perhaps you wouldn't have a problem with that, but I think the majority of people would agree that this is clearly not a safe environment for this kid. I mean I certainly hope nothing happens\and I wish to be proven wrong as I don't want anything to happen, but it sounds like you would rather wait until something bad happens that could have clearly been avoided. Best of luck OP.

Maybe I am being a bit naive but its a big step getting the social services involved. He does have redeeming qualities (believe it or not) as he'll spend nights in the hospital when the disabled kid is there. His late partner's family have got an idea what he's like but they don't want the kids (as one needs lots of care). Difficult situation and I'm not a parent myself but I hope I wouldn't behave like him even if I had lost my partner. But your right, I've been monitoring the situation and I'm worried so will do something. No choice tbh.

 

[Allein]

Can see you dilemma and it's not one I'd relish being it at all, but his behavior isn't compatible with looking after children.

At the moment ,the way I see it is you will probably feel some guilt in reporting him to social services and in the short term at least lose his friendship, thee things are pretty much a given.

If you do nothing and one of those children dies or comes to serious harm, you will feel partly responsible so even from a selfish point of view you should consider this and your responsibilities given your knowledge of the situation.

I'm not trying to lay this one on you just printing out what could be the consequences for the child and you if things go badly wrong

 

[painenduser]

Capt,

I understand that getting social services is certainly not what anyone wants to do. No body wants to split a parent and their kids, but while he may have many redeeming qualities, and spend all that time in the hospital, and perhaps most of the time he is just a down right good person. But you must understand that while he may be great most of the time, it only takes that one time of lapsed judgement, or fall into a nod, hand the kids a smoke, for the consequences to out weight all his redeeming qualities. Sadly if this behavior with him does not change then chances are these lapses can become more frequent, and put the child closer to something serious to happen. I honestly could never believe that anyone would even want to take the chance. It's like playing Russian Roulette with a 357 magnum. You don't want that on your conscience do you? I know I sure would not. Remember, you have to think of the innocence of the children before you think well he's a good person most of the time. He only has to fail at that one time for the damage to be done and none reversible.

Also remember you don't have to go at it alone, talking his family, friends ect, and present it to him with compassion rather then accusing. Make him realize that what he is doing is so wrong. And try to do this when he s sober this way he can't have his own H induced firewall up.

I think you will make the right choice, hell you already started making the right choices, you can in here humble, looking for some advise on how to proceed, and thus far I think, with the exception of one person, we have all said the same things just slightly different words. But you have made a smart and excellent choice to come in here and seek advise, now you just have to take what we gave you and move on to the next stop. But keep your head held high for even making that first leg of the journey. Good luck and keep us posted, if you need any further advice, you know where to find us.

Be strong and do what you have todo, whatever chose always remember the innocence of the kids..They will be the victims here.

Good luck and if you need to talk again, just come back and visit, if you do, I hope you have some good news to share with us.

Peace

-Pain

 

[Mel22]

Right, that has been my thinking to be honest. Asked on here to make sure there's no other alternative. Frankly, I can't see one. His late partner's best friend (who suggested care) actually works for the civil service so I can ring her and let her know exactly what's been going on. This works because then he can't accuse me of betraying him (he can be quite a scary bloke) and the woman knows the system and will be able to improve the kids situation. So thanks for the replies, I'm going to do something (been praying on my mind for a while tbh).

Definitely the right choice in my opinion, as things can't just keep going like this.

If he's scary, then I would certainly not talk to his family or his friends about any of this. In fact, I would make sure to not speak a word of this to anyone except when absolutely necessary (late partner's best friend for instance, and make sure she'll keep her trap shut obviously). Be careful not to change how you act around him either etc. If you can do this in a way that it's not too suspicious: I strongly suggest fabricating an excuse/situation to distance yourself from this guy before you report him, so then you're not around for the blow out once his kids are removed.

Best course of action IMHO: distance yourself from this guy, report him to CPS and then move on with your life. This guy may not be "bad", but he definitely seems like he's spiralling out of control, and has a tendency to take others with him (including his children unfortunately). You don't want to be around these types of people, you can't help them until they begin to help themselves.

Good on you for taking it upon yourself to help out - way too many people would turn a blind eye to this. You're doing what's best, and hopefully changing these kids lives for the better Good luck with everything.

 

[badfish45]

Don't underestimate 3 year olds. That's when children start to develop a conscience and they remember these things, and when it reoccurs in the childs life (for example f the child is ever offered heroin) you will have to confront it. I suggest that you talk to your friend because he's creating a bigger problem for himself and his child in the future.

 

[Missykins]

Maybe I am being a bit naive but its a big step getting the social services involved. He does have redeeming qualities (believe it or not) as he'll spend nights in the hospital when the disabled kid is there. His late partner's family have got an idea what he's like but they don't want the kids (as one needs lots of care). Difficult situation and I'm not a parent myself but I hope I wouldn't behave like him even if I had lost my partner. But your right, I've been monitoring the situation and I'm worried so will do something. No choice tbh.

Nobody thinks he's a bad guy, he's on H and not caring for his child because he's not able to care for himself. Maybe this is a way for him to get treatment. Kids up the ante.

 

[rangrz]

Now, here is the thing, in of it self, the fact someone is addict and/or the fact they are using a substance, does not, in of t self, constitute Actus reus to the offenses of Criminal negligence or fail to provide the necessities of life or anything similar. (at least not here) Ergo, if such was the case if I happened to be dispatched to that call...well, I may be tempted to charge the caller(because the caller wasted my time and attempted to use the justice system to carry out their personal morals), at the very minimum, I'd lol and get the fuck back in my crown vic.

On a purely personal level, I don't see the massive problem. Essentially, people are getting butthurt over the fact that the kid is not having reality of life censored for them, and wish The State to use its power of violence and coercion to make sure that the kid is sheltered and censored.

 

[Missykins]

Now, here is the thing, in of it self, the fact someone is addict and/or the fact they are using a substance, does not, in of t self, constitute Actus reus to the offenses of Criminal negligence or fail to provide the necessities of life or anything similar. (at least not here) Ergo, if such was the case if I happened to be dispatched to that call...well, I may be tempted to charge the caller(because the caller wasted my time and attempted to use the justice system to carry out their personal morals), at the very minimum, I'd lol and get the fuck back in my crown vic.

Actually, it does, at least in my state (New York).

I asked the same question in an earlier post--is there any sort of outpatient program for him? Where is his own family?