Heroin Heroin, first time tonight. Need advice.

[Intrinsic man]

My friend tried heroin for the first time this past Monday. It was black tar heroin cut with some kind of sleep aid/allergy stuff for the itching. I am a once a week opiate user and I take 30 mg's of Hydrocodone every week, and have been doing so for about a year. My plan is to start by snorting tiny lines, waiting 15 minutes and then taking another one depending on how I feel. I was wondering if this is the best way to approach this? To my knowledge, even if I take small lines and wait a little, I will eventually get to where I want to be. Any input? I do not want to be overwhelmed nor underwhelmed.

We have a very accurate mg scale so if anyone wanted to be specific, they could be. Keep in mind my goal is to obtain a lasting opiate euphoria, not to nod off or anything.

I will be breaking my golden rule on recreational opiate usage tonight; only use once a week. I figure I can take a 2 week break to make up for this. I realize opiates, particularly heroin, is very addictive. Do you guys think this is a serious infringement on my plans to not become an addict? It is only 3 days since I last took hydrocodone, so I am pretty concerned about this. A part of me is saying it's no big deal, just take a 2 week break and you'll be fine, but the other part of me is saying 'what the fuck are you doing?!' I know I am not in danger, or at least I don't think I am, of developing any physical dependence after such minimal use. I suppose my concerns are more psychological... If I could keep it to only once a week use for so long, how hard can it be?

I am also planning on taking a couple mg's of Etizolam to fall asleep later on. I don't see any issues with this provided I take them well after I have come down from my high.

Thanks in advance guys. As usual, if I broke any obscure rule please edit the thread rather than closing it entirely.

 

[Lopez]

i'd wait, if you already used it'll boost your tolerance a bit, personally i use opiates every 2 weeks because tolerance to opiates lingers longer than tolerance to many other drugs IMO.

that and i'd NEVER use street heroin, i'd rather get some pharmaceutical-grade morphine.

 

[Jabberwocky]

OP - just recognize you're playing with fire. Although not everyone who tried heroin is going to instantly become a street scum junky, the one demonized in American mainstream culture, the vast majority will become addicted.

And the vast majority of all out heroin addicts once said those same words... And had the best of intentions, to keep it to once a week.

Not saying you're GOING to become an all out heroin addict, but the deck is rigorously stacked against you, no matter what precautions you take.

 

[Intrinsic man]

OP - just recognize you're playing with fire. Although not everyone who tried heroin is going to instantly become a street scum junky, the one demonized in American mainstream culture, the vast majority will become addicted.

And the vast majority of all out heroin addicts once said those same words... And had the best of intentions, to keep it to once a week.

Not saying you're GOING to become an all out heroin addict, but the deck is rigorously stacked against you, no matter what precautions you take.

I understand this but my options are simple: 1. Never try heroin. 2. Try heroin.

I have always wanted to try it and now I have a perfect opportunity. The stuff is pretty good, it's not going to cost me much, and I did not get it myself therefor I have NO way of obtaining more.

I have 'the fear of God', or in this case, 'the fear of heroin' instilled within me. I am terribly afraid of becoming addicted and I think this is my best weapon. It is my theory that most present day addicts were lacking this, going into a battle they were not equipped to fight.

 

[Jabberwocky]

Oh, by all mean, do it up. I mean, it's not like I never used the drug Shit, I believe the stuff should be legal... but that's for another post/rant.

Trust me, although you might not in fact get any more, as one of my strategies was to cut myself off and make the drug impossible to get (worked most of the time), eventually, if you desire the drug, and seek it out, you WILL find it. It's amazing how it works...

All's I'm saying is that, for your own sake, recognize that you are playing with fire. That's all. Enjoy!

BTW someone once told me to avoid dependency NEVER use more than once every four day (e.x. one day on, four days off). IMO I'd stick to once a week, although given how strong the psychological cravings can be, once ever two weeks, if not once a month, is a lot safer. Then again, this sort of planning almost NEVER works... Like I said, you might be that lucky 1/1000, but the deck is rigged against you either way. With opioids, especially heroin, but this can be said for all opioids.

OH and P.s. Your dosing strategy should work just fine for your needs.

Yes, Fear is a wonderful way to avoid over indulging. TBH it keeps me away from heroin and other opioids short of suboxone these days. I just really want to impress upon you, from someone who's been there and back, lived and loved, as they say, please at least keep that fear at the foremost of your mind. At least when you're sober...

Alas, that's kinda the problem with opioids... sometime sober becomes less and less and then disappears...

 

[Intrinsic man]

Are you currently in a Suboxone program? Or do you just use that as opposed to other opiates?

In my opinion, there is always that moment of sobriety, right before you make the decision on whether or not to ingest the opiate - when it's sitting there in your hand, or lined out on a desk, where YOU can dictate the future. Once you become addicted, however, that decision becomes more clear. In order to not experience withdrawals, you take the drug. This is why i am so concerned with making the right decision before I become physically dependent. At this point I do not see myself ever taking opiates multiple days in a row, in a way that i would develop a dependence. but who really knows?

 

[Jabberwocky]

Exactly, the line between addiction/dependency and a normal life+recreational heroin use is very fine, slippery and foggy.

Yea, I'm on a suboxone maintenance program, although I used to buy it on the black market and just use it basically for the same reasons. Easier on the program, doing it legally and all. This after almost five years of heroin (ab)use. The funny thing though is that I never suffered any serious negative consequences related to my use, until I started coming out of the closet about it... Shit's totally demonized in my culture, often for totally the wrong reasons...

You know what you're doing, I see that is the case. I just feel it's my duty, in a sense, to vigorously remind people who want to get involved with dope what it is they are actually doing. Many tend to romanticize the whole thing, which, as I'm sure you know, doesn't lead to very positive results...

 

[Tommyboy]

I don't see the point in trying heroin if you still have a low opiate tolerance. I find heroin and hydrocodone to feel about the same, but since it would take me so many vicodins to get high, I choose heroin. So I don't see the appeal in trying a drug with an unknown purity over a drug that you know the dosage of. It's easy to end up getting sick from overdoing heroin at first, especially with a low tolerance.

 

[rocketqueen]

OP - just recognize you're playing with fire. Although not everyone who tried heroin is going to instantly become a street scum junky, the one demonized in American mainstream culture, the vast majority will become addicted.

And the vast majority of all out heroin addicts once said those same words... And had the best of intentions, to keep it to once a week.

Not saying you're GOING to become an all out heroin addict, but the deck is rigorously stacked against you, no matter what precautions you take.

^+1 welcome to hell, my friend. Who knew that hell could be so seductive? But in the end, you are gonna BURN...
(she gets down off of her soapbox) Maybe you will have better luck than I did. Enjoy!

 

[J.D.]

Heroin is a tricky mistress. I started out the same as you. I figured that since I wasn't buying it myself, I'd ensure a one-time use. Hah. If we want something bad enough, we find a way to get it. I mean, you got it this time...right? There was another thread in here earlier where the poster was making rules and promises to himself when and how often he would use. Those rules are so easy to break, especially when that devil is on your shoulder whispering in your ear. It's such a slippery slope.

I can only speak for myself, as a junkie. I made all those promises, too. I made rules I couldn't follow. I do admit, though, I love the drug. Just be careful, be aware of what you might be getting yourself into, be safe and have fun.

 

[Intrinsic man]

Well that was a pleasant experience. I ended up snorting around 6 lines, starting very small and making my way up to only a 35 mg line. I felt pretty good but it is comparable to a nice dose of Hydrocodone, IMO. Because of this, I am sure I will continue my once a week Hydrocodone use (after a 2 week break) and continue as usual.

I realize I could have taken my experience to a whole new level if I had taken more, but I was content feeling the way I was. Heroin, at this point, is more economical than Hydrocodone. We bought 40 bucks worth and it's probably good for at least 5 sessions, maybe 6. But that is not enough for me to go way out of my way to obtain it, especially when I can never know it's purity.

I guess you could say I am psychologically addicted to opiates, in a way. I thoroughly enjoy them and do not like going more than a week without. But this is not a problem as far as I am concerned. If I need to, I can go without them. I don't want to, but I can if I have to. I know this is "how it starts" as people say. I have been doing this successfully for about a year now, how long is this 'start' you speak of? I feel as though if I were to become addicted to opiates, I would have by now. Of course this could change, and maybe I am more ignorant than I think, but why would it? Why would I want to become addicted? I know that I will enjoy them less, spend much more money and suffer terrible withdrawals whilst I decide to stop. I do not want this. Why then would I make the decision to take them in a way that would bring this upon me? The devil on my soldier is there, and has been for a year. I happily neglect him.

As I said before, it is my theory that the people who become addicted to opiates, or any drug for that matter, did not have the fear of addiction instilled within them. They realized that what they were doing was going to lead to addiction, but decided to ignore this. They said "fuck it" or perhaps, "ill deal with it later". These are ideologies I know to be bad; I do not let them make my decisions.

Again, as I said before, I may be more ignorant than I think. I sure hope not.

 

[rocketqueen]

If I need to, I can go without them. I don't want to, but I can if I have to. I know this is "how it starts" as people say. I have been doing this successfully for about a year now, how long is this 'start' you speak of? I feel as though if I were to become addicted to opiates, I would have by now. Of course this could change, and maybe I am more ignorant than I think, but why would it? Why would I want to become addicted? I know that I will enjoy them less, spend much more money and suffer terrible withdrawals whilst I decide to stop. I do not want this. Why then would I make the decision to take them in a way that would bring this upon me? The devil on my soldier is there, and has been for a year. I happily neglect him.

As I said before, it is my theory that the people who become addicted to opiates, or any drug for that matter, did not have the fear of addiction instilled within them. They realized that what they were doing was going to lead to addiction, but decided to ignore this. They said "fuck it" or perhaps, "ill deal with it later". These are ideologies I know to be bad; I do not let them make my decisions.

Again, as I said before, I may be more ignorant than I think. I sure hope not.

These things that you say are the lies you must tell yourself so you can feel okay about using AND continue to use. These things you say sound really familiar to me, disturbingly familiar.

"I can go without it if I really want to."

"I have used 'successfully' thus far."

"Why would I make the decisions necessary to become an addict?"

"Addicts that became addicted did not have proper fear of it instilled in them."

Wow. I am going to let some other people comment on these statements...but, wow. Addiction is about loss of control. And it is progressive. You could chip for ten years and everything is fine...until it isn't. Likely you will ignore the warning signs like most of us did, usually by justifying them away. Addiction is a disease of denial. You will tell yourself anything to be able to keep on using. You will lie to yourself repeatedly to be able to sustain the illusion that everything is ok so you can continue to use. The limits that you set for yourself will fall like dominoes. Like, I started saying to myself, "at least I am not paying for it...I would never pay for it." That became, "I will not spend over $100 a week on it" which became "I have the money, so why not" to "I need this money for the rent but I need to score, so fuck it, I willl get the cash for the rent some other way" to "I am being evicted anyway so might as well party fuck it." Or "I would never use alone" to "fuck it, I want to get high and if no one else is around who cares?"

Please know I am not trying to take shots at you. I do not know your individual circumstances and it is certainly possible that you will do just fine. I am sure there are people out there that use heroin successfully until the day they die. I do not know of any, but that does not mean they are not out there. Right?

 

[Jabberwocky]

Well, I guess it would be nice if you checked back in here periodically OP and let us know where or not yours still using the dope and if so how often... We don't judge, trust me - as those of us who have experience have been there and done that. But it would be good for others new to the game to see for themselves whether someone is able to keep things straight or not. Again, it's not a competition or anything, just for the sake of harm reduction. IMHO I certainly found it hard to be honest with myself when I was loaded, so this also might be a god exercise in that... given the anonymity of BL and all...

Regardless, good luck OP. Despite all my rather distracting posts, I DO wish you the best. Fellow heroin, affectionado

p.s. I do know of people who have used heroin a very few number of times and then stopped for the rest of their lives (well, this is only a matter of years; my s.o. is a primary example - we used a number of time in college then as I got more and more addicted I forbid her from following me and she soon saw the nasty consequences, albeit pretty minor in the scheme of things, and hasn't touched the stuff, let alone opioids more generally in the last four years. I doubt she'll ever go back to it, although she CERTAINLY enjoyed herself at the time; then again, I'm sure, when she gets her wisdom teeth out or something, she'll enjoy herself though... I even that's girl's self control, although then again, I've very happy with where I'm at today, not using and all)

 

[Intrinsic man]

Maybe I am coming off as cocky or arrogant; believe me, I am very humble about my situation. I admit that I am somewhat psychologically addicted, but this is not a problem IMO. I quite enjoy it actually. Each week I look forward to Monday (the day I usually take Hydros) in the same way that I look forward to Friday and Saturday in regards to drinking with my buddies. If someone were to force me to not drink for a year, I would be very unhappy about that. This is not to say that I am a raging alcoholic who is well on his way to becoming helplessly addicted never to look back.

I'm currently taking a 2 week break from opiates (1 day in, obviously). I will PM you toothpastdog and let you know how it goes. I do not see myself having any problems achieving this, but who knows. Today has been a normal day, just like any other. I am not feigning for heroin nor am I overwhelmed with thoughts of the experience. I suppose if I were to do some again tonight and tomorrow I may have some problems, but that would just be fucking stupid and I KNOW it. My theory is that I will either make it through these next two weeks a little annoyed about not being able to take some, or I will just settle for a one week break (which would certainly prove I have a strong psychological addiction). Either way, I am not at risk for physical dependence which is, IMO, the defining characteristic between an addict and a recreational user.

Also, you have to remember that I will not be using heroin again. It was a one time deal. From now on I will be using Hydrocodone, business as usual. I'm sure it would be much more difficult to keep addiction at bay if I were using heroin once a week, rather than Hydrocodone. Or is that an ignorant statement?

 

[Jabberwocky]

Thanks IM! I appreciate it. I don't think you came off as arrogant or cocky. It's more that when someone such as you comes along, someone who hasn't tried heroin but is dead set on doing so, well, all of us that have been down it's dark road try our best to, well, deter them from getting over excited about their new found opioid. I mean, it's easy to get caught up in it, romanticize, etc, given how good it feels and how much people misunderstand it until they try it (thanks propaganda; it's like okay, I did it once, nothing bad happened, so why can't I do it more - as opposed to propaganda that demonizes heroin users, even more so than homosexuals).

Be proud and hold your head high! You're now part of the most demonized populations on Earth!

In a way, j/k, but in another sense, I'm dead serious

 

[pbuilder]

OP - just recognize you're playing with fire. Although not everyone who tried heroin is going to instantly become a street scum junky, the one demonized in American mainstream culture, the vast majority will become addicted.

And the vast majority of all out heroin addicts once said those same words... And had the best of intentions, to keep it to once a week.

Not saying you're GOING to become an all out heroin addict, but the deck is rigorously stacked against you, no matter what precautions you take.

meh, I feel like if he is already using 30mg of hydro every weekend (which is of course, not a very strong opiate, but still considered a genuine opiate in my book, unlike codeine for example 8)) that maybe he would be able to handle heroin instead... I'm sure it would be quite a bit cheaper.

As long as he never tries to change the ROA, and keeps simply dosing nasally, I think it could be... if he wanted it to be... a recreational habit. The problem is, and I hope this never happens to you... that if you begin to use to often you will turn to ways that seem to give you the high you are looking for again, more specifically turning to the needle. Because like all drugs, tolerance will increase and your regular dose won't give you what you want anymore...

If you decide to try it, please try your absosolute hardest to keep it a once a week, MAXIMUM, habit. Because this way your tolerance won't raise very much...

But of course you already know this , I just hope that once you get psychologically addicted to heroin (if you do try it), that you can remember to keep this mind set, "if I start doing this more than once a week, I'm going to ruin my entire life, and hurt, and probably lose, all the people that I love and care about".

Because I feel like once you start using MORE than once a week, you are already crossing "the line", that will eventually lead to much more casual use (Like daily, while just watching tv or some sh*t) rather than just once on the weekend for partying or whatever... Until you are finally a pathetic, shell of yourself, physically addicted, heroin addict, that has lost everything that they once cared about.

Sorry I didn't mean to type this massive paragraph... I'm tweekin' a bit atm

 

[Jabberwocky]

^^ Very true, not much difference between 30mg of hydro and a line of normal dope. Opioids, after all, are opioids. Heroin brings some unique complications with it though, if none other than the legal/stigma. Still, nice post pb

 

[Intrinsic man]

Yeah like Tommyboy said above, I didn't notice TOO much of a difference between the heroin and the Hydrocodone I usually take. Like I said, I could have taken my high to a whole other level had I dosed higher or perhaps taken more over time. I think that's the difference between stronger opiates and weaker opiates. With Hydro's, the best I am going to feel is at the 30-35 mg range. If I take more, I will probably just get uncomfortable and maybe sick. With heroin, it seemed like I pretty much could have gotten to whatever level of "good feeling" I wanted. Make no mistake, Hydrocodone is by no means "weak" as people tend to think of it. I get a very strong euphoria and lasting high from Hydro's alone.

 

[tricomb]

Pbuilder, excellent way to put it. +1

 

[Azn]

Mate, I'd stay away from heroin, that is the worst drug, it will fuck your life up, there is no such thing as once in a while once you touch it you will go on it, I admit it took my a few months to get on it cause I was smoking once or twice a week at first then became 3 or 4 times a week, then it became everyday, I was on it for 4 years straight my habit got to smoking a quarter ounce a day that is 7 grams, I'm 183cm tall and I was only 65kgs thats way under weight, once you get addicted to it you will end up doing crimes to support your habit, either dealing drugs, robing people and breaking into houses, and you will end up in jail, I stopped heroin for 7 years and just done something stupid recently, I was like you thinking I could smoke it once in a while, but no way, as soon as I had 1 spot I kept on going for 2 months, at the moment I'm coming off subs, and it's my 8th day clean
If you really have to take heroin I suggest you smoke it, thats the safest way, just put little spots on foil and make a straw and inhale the smoke then have a drag of cigarette, thats called chasing the dragon, you can't OD that way and you would able to tell if it's been cut badly straight away, if it has a burnt sugary taste then thats been cut heaps, but as I said again the best is to stay away from it.