"This dose whooped my mental ass! I can't wait to go further!" Why?

[the wheat's gotta]

I'm just interested in the context of statements like this. I notice people saying things like this all the time in big & dandy threads so it sounds like this is an attitude shared by many psychonauts. It sounds like you seek a mental ass whooping? What is a mental ass whooping and why do you seek it?

Do you seek negative experiences?
Do you seek near or full ego death?
Do you seek an enormous mindfuck and perspective shift?

Are you a mental masochist?
Are you trying to crush your pride and increase your respect and acceptance?
Is this just another way to say you re-become that sticky forgotten part of you from times you'd rather forget, and you do forget in your daily sober life?
Is this another way to say you become one with god/experience universal love and peace?

Do you feel like it is the primary purpose of your psychedelic journeys?

I think I had a small ass-whooping yesterday and it was the first ass-whooping that I felt was much more beneficial and worthwhile than it was harmful. But I don't think I seek that experience primarily, I would much rather experience good vibes and peace than have it centered on my ego. Does the ego need to be crushed before this happens?

Either way your definition of a mental ass whooping will help me understand more. Thank you.

 

[thoughtsUnThought]

Lol, good topic. This'll get a good discussion I believe.

Surely the motives why ones would seek a mental ass whooping will vary from person to person, but you gave a good spectrum for starters lol. Also, I think its worthwhile to note that the rewarding ass-whoop trips I've had were not something I went into seekng. Lol mental masochist? To each their own I suppose.

When waking up after some exp you thought was surely going to make you lose your mind, theres a certain humbling and 'fresh new look at the world' blank-slate knd of sensation. Which could be learned to be looked at as a reward and potentially strived for through getting your mnd stomped....but I think the people who would be on the side of mental masochism wouldn't be pschonautically-intentioned with regards to their psychedelic use. I'm picturing some drunk festival kids laughin about how that ten strip totally kicked their ass or something....some people who use psychs to 'get fucked up' could totally learn to love the destructive intensity. Myself, I respect and value the destrictive force as a drive towards re-birthing, but fuck its intmidating too lol.

 

[thoughtsUnThought]

Also there's something about the idea that 'This CANNOT get Any Crazier' which comes up when getting destroyed....lol, after the trip its intriguing to consider that there's a whole nother level of craziness currently unfathomable. Brings about that old frontier pioneering spirit, traveling into foreign land lol.

 

[webbykevin]

Also there's something about the idea that 'This CANNOT get Any Crazier' which comes up when getting destroyed....lol, after the trip its intriguing to consider that there's a whole nother level of craziness currently unfathomable. Brings about that old frontier pioneering spirit, traveling into foreign land lol.

^^This.

 

[FnX]

I'm thinking that maybe this mental ass-whooping isn't exactly dose dependant, atleast when you reach the higher levels. I had an experience with ayahuasca once which felt like somekind borderline overdose. I wasn't even one third through the come up before I started freaking out "oh man, this is way too much, abort mission abort mission uh oh...". At first everything got more complex, visuals were amazing, both CEV OEV, beautiful landscapes and some veeery trippy stuff like somehow managing to hammer my head through the floor only to have it reapper in the ceiling, seeing myself from the above. Mentally my thoughts were treading pretty deep waters too, all that 'other side' and 'everything is connected' stuff for the first time (it was my first and absolutely most intense psychedelic experience ever, I was young and didn't really know what I was doing). But the problem is, things just kept getting more trippy and more complex, so I ended up having the worst trip of my life. I went through every stereotypical freakout scenario, 'am I dead?' 'did I just go insane permanently?' 'am I stuck on the otherside?' while waiting for the whitecoats inside an endless loop.

Eventually, things got TOO complex and started breaking down into simpler things, my brain went to a kind of lockdown. I was just repeating the phrase "we are nothing but biological machines" over and over in my head until I had lost the ability to think with words, couldn't speak, couldn't ask for help, didn't know who I was, what I was, where I was, nothing. I was in a very dark place, in absolute terror, seeing nothing but one single color at a time that would fade into a different color, eyes closed or eyes open didn't matter. It's as if the painter who paints psychedelic experiences and visuals just spilled all of his paint on the canvas making one big mess. It was pretty traumatic and I was 17 or 18 years old at the time, so retrospectively thinking, damn I was stupid. It changed me for years, maybe permanently. I don't see what could possibly lie beyond that point trip-wise, except complete blackout.

 

[the wheat's gotta]

Lol, good topic. This'll get a good discussion I believe.

Surely the motives why ones would seek a mental ass whooping will vary from person to person, but you gave a good spectrum for starters lol. Also, I think its worthwhile to note that the rewarding ass-whoop trips I've had were not something I went into seekng. Lol mental masochist? To each their own I suppose.

When waking up after some exp you thought was surely going to make you lose your mind, theres a certain humbling and 'fresh new look at the world' blank-slate knd of sensation. Which could be learned to be looked at as a reward and potentially strived for through getting your mnd stomped....but I think the people who would be on the side of mental masochism wouldn't be pschonautically-intentioned with regards to their psychedelic use. I'm picturing some drunk festival kids laughin about how that ten strip totally kicked their ass or something....some people who use psychs to 'get fucked up' could totally learn to love the destructive intensity. Myself, I respect and value the destrictive force as a drive towards re-birthing, but fuck its intmidating too lol.

Yeah I wasn't talking about festie kids or that Hunter S. Thompson mentality. But when I read this statement from someone on bluelight I infer that there are higher intentions, maybe psychonautic intentions as you put it. So I became quite intrigued as to why the intelligent and spiritually-inclined psychonauts might describe a good experience as a mental ass whooping lol.

The humbling and fresh new look feeling, I can definitely relate with today. The frontier-spirit feeling, I don't think I am inclined to feel myself but I can definitely fathom why some would have that desire.

So my next question is for those who enjoy an ass whooping, do you ever experience what might be described as a good trip? Being one with all, appreciation, love, etc? And which do you prefer and why?

I'm thinking that maybe this mental ass-whooping isn't exactly dose dependant, atleast when you reach the higher levels. I had an experience with ayahuasca once which felt like somekind borderline overdose.

Your post was a fun read but I don't understand what you mean with this. I thought you meant that an ass whooping can be the same whether you had a heavy dose or an overdose. But then you describe your borderline overdose on ayahuasca and how it was an ass whooping, and I don't understand how that supports your statement.

 

[Captain.Heroin]

I have PTSD.

If I have panic or depression on LSD or mushrooms, it makes mere panic or depression while sober so much easier to handle. This is a therapeutic effect, even if a particular psychedelic journey I go on is terrifying for whatever reason.

Other people gain some sort of spiritual energy/philosophical knowledge out of tripping, while maxing themselves out mentally on a high dosage of psychedelics. I don't think people are masochists when they do this, but they are more brave than anything else.

I enjoy that you brought this discussion up. I often wondered what possessed me to eat high dosages of mushrooms, or take LSD as regularly as I do now.

 

[FnX]

Your post was a fun read but I don't understand what you mean with this. I thought you meant that an ass whooping can be the same whether you had a heavy dose or an overdose. But then you describe your borderline overdose on ayahuasca and how it was an ass whooping, and I don't understand how that supports your statement.

Ah sorry, the point I tried to make was that there's definately a limit to the ass-whooping you get as far as dosing goes. Upping the dosage could have instead given me less of an ass-whooping, because I would have blacked out instead of having to deal with whatever was happening in my head. More intense doesn't necessarily mean more ass-whooping, you might find yourself having an even more mentally challenging trip if you took a lower dose and went outside putting yourself in various challenging situations, instead of taking that huge ass dose which left you incapable of walking or even seeing in front of you.

 

[the wheat's gotta]

Ah sorry, the point I tried to make was that there's definately a limit to the ass-whooping you get as far as dosing goes. Upping the dosage could have instead given me less of an ass-whooping, because I would have blacked out instead of having to deal with whatever was happening in my head. More intense doesn't necessarily mean more ass-whooping, you might find yourself having an even more mentally challenging trip if you took a lower dose and went outside putting yourself in various challenging situations, instead of taking that huge ass dose which left you incapable of walking or even seeing in front of you.

Okay that makes sense and I've heard of people doing that, though so far the only time it applied to me was with an uncomfortable nauseus bodyload from an amanitas comeup, where I somehow managed to fall asleep and wake up four hours later absolutely good as new.

I have PTSD.

If I have panic or depression on LSD or mushrooms, it makes mere panic or depression while sober so much easier to handle. This is a therapeutic effect, even if a particular psychedelic journey I go on is terrifying for whatever reason.

Other people gain some sort of spiritual energy/philosophical knowledge out of tripping, while maxing themselves out mentally on a high dosage of psychedelics. I don't think people are masochists when they do this, but they are more brave than anything else.

I enjoy that you brought this discussion up. I often wondered what possessed me to eat high dosages of mushrooms, or take LSD as regularly as I do now.

Thank you for sharing. That is something I did not consider. What do you think makes the panic or depression easier?

 

[Ismene]

What is a mental ass whooping and why do you seek it?

I've never felt I've been whooped by any drug at any dose. If you're taking a big dose then you know you're going to experience intense effects of the particular drug you're taking. If you enjoy intense effects of that drug then you'll enjoy the experience. I don't think a strong dose brings you closer to god than a weak dose - it's just how much you enjoy the drug.

I enjoy the effects of oral DMT so I've taken ayahuasca at doses sufficient to stun a rampaging rhino. It doesn't ass-whoop you as you're too busy enjoying it.

 

[thedeadlywar]

I've had some asskickingly powerful trips with DOC and 25inbome lately, mind blowing doses

 

[Dr.DruNk]

A mental ass-kicking is a lot like a real ass-kicking... If you survive it you have one hell of a story.

I think that some people, like me, want to experience both sides of the spectrum from ecstasy to agony. Most people do not intentionally subject themselves to agony, but risk it for the possibility of ultimate beauty.

You really do not need drugs for this kind of experience, I imagine mountain climbing has the same kind of payoff (except you die if you fail in that arena). For that reason, something I like to say when consuming psychedelics is "To the top of the mountain".

 

[thoughtsUnThought]

Hehe, this thread got good

I'm really fascinated with cpt heroines post, that super fuckin interesting.
I've always noticed that mundane tasks and worldy errands are much less 'boring' and/or tedious after a gooood trip. I can see that this effect could parallel someones panic/depression tendencies and cause the emotional anxiet response to life to seem far less 'something to worry about' , thus ceasing the snowball of culumative panic effects....since after all one survived being abducted by hyper-dimensional aliens..!

 

[webbykevin]

The only substance that has really "Kicked my ass" mentally was mushrooms, I have taken massive doses of lsd and mdma over the years and never had anything but a brilliant time, but mushrooms have had me pinned to the bed in the fetal position begging for mercy in absolute terror a couple of times.

It's not an experience that I seek to repeat so why do I keep taking mushrooms ? I thought about this a lot last night after reading this thread, I think I take them because the experience is so thrilling, so mysterious, so beautiful that It's worth the risk of it turning left occasionally, I think psychedelic use especially of plant hallucinogens is like an art, or a craft, it takes practice, it requires attention to detail, it gives you the opportunity to investigate yourself and reality on levels that I personally have never found using any other method.

Last night I thought back over those few mental "Ass Whoopings" and re read some journal notes from those times, The lessons I learned by going through those extreem experiences were life changing, and were also exactly what I needed at the time to sort myself out and I don't think another person, partner, friend or councilor could have gotten anywhere close to the ground that we (The mushroom and I) covered in those sessions.

The mushroom is one of those guru's that will say to you "Oh come off it, stop playing games, get real" when you present it with your ego self, It sees straight through your bullshit and can clear the decks of all your personal petty crap really fast and thoroughly if it has to. Then the real journey starts and the teaching can begin.

Like Mr Jagger said, you don't always get what you want, but you get what you need.

 

[trammies]

Personally- I don't tend seek out an ass whooping. The only thing I can say I'd occasionally seek one out with would have to be Grass, because sometimes it's nice to get as stoned as is physically possible, but also bearing in mind, I haven't smoked any in about 7 or 8 months, or so, iirc.
I tend to seek out as strong an experience I can, whilst being able to stay relatively "human". My last trip on Acid was a perfect example of this. Good euphoria to start off, VERY colourful visuals, only a brief moment of anything that could be considered a more serious fragmentation of my ego. But aside from that brief moment, there was essentially no headtrip, whilst this came as a bit of a disappointment, as I like to use acid on the odd occasion to "cleanse" myself, I also enjoyed it very much as it was a welcome change. Highest dose I ever did, too, which I find a bit odd. (I lost my train of thought as I was typing there... Pretty sure I had a good point too, but alas, it is gone).

 

[malakaix]

In retrospect i think i did for a long time, i would seek out the most powerful experience possible; i believe this was because i needed to know beyond a shred of doubt what everything was. I had an insatiable thirst for truth and psychedelics seemed to provide me with the means of exploring this. I only stopped after smoking a massive breakthrough dose of DMT, which obliterated me in every sense of the word.. similar to FnX's experience with Ayahuasca everything would increase in complexity at lightning speed, it was like watching duality smash into itself over and over at tremendous speed until it collapsed into an absolute singularity which opened up into an eternal void. I don't remember what happened when i fell through, but when i came to and opened my eyes it felt like the entire fabric of reality was reconstructing itself. I remember looking at my hands and and just 'knowing'; everything made so much sense that i was overwhelmed with silence.

It scared the hell out of me for sure, leading upto the point before i fell through i was convinced that i had a complete break from reality and i wasn't coming back.

 

[RobotRipping]

i used to aim for that overwhelming feeling and a complete shift in consciousness. I was genuinely interested to see how far out i could get. I think i achieved my goal many times over.

I used to take combinations of large doses of psychs, especially tryptamine/phenethylamine combos to the point where i could not see a few feet ahead of me the visuals were so intense. Now i find that 'shift in consciousness' during the come up to be almost painful. A few too many ass whoopings really made me appreciate the power of a low dose.

a mental ass whoopping for me is that feeling of being on the edge of feeling amazing, feeling godlike and feeling like you are going to die, or you perhaps took too much and usually involves praying to God that it all works out and swearing you'll never do it again. lol I didn't aim for those effects necessarily but rather the far out altered state that often accompanies it.

I was mostly searching for a mystical experience or to somehow experience things in and of themselves without the influence of our experiences or perceptions. Also to try and confront my fears, the unknown, find hidden parts of myself, repressed memories stuff like that. The further out i got the closer i felt i was to answers, i really just opened up more questions though

 

[the wheat's gotta]

Thank guys for the answers.

In retrospect i think i did for a long time, i would seek out the most powerful experience possible; i believe this was because i needed to know beyond a shred of doubt what everything was. I had an insatiable thirst for truth and psychedelics seemed to provide me with the means of exploring this. I only stopped after smoking a massive breakthrough dose of DMT, which obliterated me in every sense of the word.. similar to FnX's experience with Ayahuasca everything would increase in complexity at lightning speed, it was like watching duality smash into itself over and over at tremendous speed until it collapsed into an absolute singularity which opened up into an eternal void. I don't remember what happened when i fell through, but when i came to and opened my eyes it felt like the entire fabric of reality was reconstructing itself. I remember looking at my hands and and just 'knowing'; everything made so much sense that i was overwhelmed with silence.

It scared the hell out of me for sure, leading upto the point before i fell through i was convinced that i had a complete break from reality and i wasn't coming back.

I relate with this, I used to have the same purpose in mind when tripping, though I haven't tried to satisfy that desire to the same degree.

 

[wayab]

More intense doesn't necessarily mean more ass-whooping, you might find yourself having an even more mentally challenging trip if you took a lower dose and went outside putting yourself in various challenging situations, instead of taking that huge ass dose which left you incapable of walking or even seeing in front of you.

so true
i have many times found low doses much more hard to handle. things like guilt anxieties and such are much more apparent... the ego feels much more terrified from losing its grip on reality. with higher doses all those negative things get blown away or sould i say your attachment to them and you get a much more sane and objective look at what they mean and how to manipulate your look at them and future actions when sober

 

[2c-goinsane]

ime low doses can take you pretty damn far out there esspecially if you know how to use it. everytime iv went out looking for a really intense ego dissolving trip on a high dose it never goes the way i want it. the times im really not expecting much is some the most intense experiences iv had without a doubt.

i actually once had 15 emty 2ce capsules that still had probably a mg or 2 in each cap and i dosed all them with a gram of really potent mushrooms and i couldnt see to save my life the visual just overpowered everything, counters, couchs and toilet was morphing into the walls haha