How to regenerate seretonin ASAP?

[First Bad Comedown]

Thanks Papoose.

Among those that describe 'brain damage' from MDMA, cannabis is ALWAYS a very very bad thing during recovery.
Whether or not cannabis played a role in neurotoxicity to begin with, it certainly has a powerful negative effect upon the recovering brain.

The instance of this phenomena is astounding.
And the overlap between the cannabinoid and serotonin systems is obviously of great interest.

 

[severely etarded]

^FBC - Cannabis has absolutely no effect on serotonin i;t is nothing like MDMA!

Once again FBC you bring this point up without any evidence. I debunked a single study that showed lowered serotonin in teens that smoke cannabis everyday.

While that may seem like "proof" cannabis lowers serotonin, it proves nothing.

That study is flawed on multiple levels--I found very little controls on polysubstance abuse

Did the study ask teens if the reason they feel compelled to smoke everyday could be caused by an underlying urge to SELF MEDICATION. of substance abuse.

Some 90+% of all daily substance users suffer from some untreated or inadaquetly treated mental disorder (IE DEPRESSION)

Depression's main cause has been linked to SEROTONIN DEFICIENCY. So its very possible these habitual users were only using daily --derp-derp.. THEY WERE PROBABLY ALL DEPRESSED! !! who puts chemicals in their brain every single fucking day unless something's wrong with it.

I've smoked weed daily since 14. It helped me quit the terrible SSRI's the doctors had me on. Zoloft, Wellbutrin, effexor etc. It worked much better and once I got to high school I quit my SSRI with minimal withdrawal and rid of my manic depression that started in junior high.

That study you showed me-- as I pointed out before- proves absolutely nothing aside from that your irrational belief cannabis has a.negative impact on serotonin is rooted in irrational speculation.

 

[dr0budz]

From what i have learned. If you take Pure or almost Pure MDMA, There is virtually no come down. Maybe sore muscles from dancing all night. Maybe im wrong. But taking breaks is very key. MDMA is a drug that you have to learn to do. Im sure some people will agree with that. Stay safe!

 

[First Bad Comedown]

Severely, are you seriously going to argue with me over a single study?
I have said over and over again that only an exhaustive search can provide anything near conclusive (and simple) statements.
Do you really think that the one link I posted from probably six months ago is the sole base from which I derive my statements about cannabis?

Read about the interaction between cannabis and mental illness for a period of time, and you will begin to see that serotonin (the great moderator) is involved in just about EVERY brain function.

To say that cannabis doesn't affect serotonin is foolish.
If it didn't, why would smoking on MDMA be so amazing?

And why, oh why, do most of the serious cases of recovery from MDMA involve a complete change in the way cannabis affects the person?
Even LSD is known to do this.

If you do not dispute these issues, why are you so bent on arguing a singular study I posted MONTHS ago?
It is, after all, the only one you ever came CLOSE to 'debunking'.

I can debunk studies too - it is the easier approach.
Trying to extract some truth from a variety of studies to piece together a bigger picture...THAT is the difficult path.
That is what science is all about.

Yes, cannabis has an effect on serotonin.
The fact that it causes the 'munchies' and activates the stomach and intestines alone is a certain cause of 'serotonin activity'.
Are you prepared to argue this as well?

I didn't even make statements about cannabis increasing serotonin this time, either.
I simply pointed out that it has a strongly negative interaction with MDMA if used on a long-term heavy basis.
Simple enough...

 

[severely etarded]

Read about the interaction between cannabis and mental illness for a period of time, and you will begin to see that serotonin (the great moderator) is involved in just about EVERY brain function.

cannabis and mental illness. ok serotonin is "thre great moderator" involved in every brain function. how does this prove cannabis lowers serotonin. Drugs affect everyone differently.. You should know this with all your research, FBC.

To say that cannabis doesn't affect serotonin is foolish.
If it didn't, why would smoking on MDMA be so amazing?

Actually many people report negative effects that would be considered anything aside from "amazing" so this is not true for everybody, first of all.

Second, cannabis tends to make a lot of things feel better in a lot of people, so it's pretty non-specific to MDMA. Shit smoking weed makes coffee-drinking feel better IMO. lol

If you do not dispute these issues, why are you so bent on arguing a singular study I posted MONTHS ago?
It is, after all, the only one you ever came CLOSE to 'debunking'.

I believe your belief cannabis has a negative impact on serotonin is simply false.

AND for someone who is addicted to marijuana, it could be WORSE dealing with low serotonin AND weed withdrawal post roll than it would be otherwise. A lot of people on here are addicted to cannabis (I know I am... I get severe appetite suppression, insomnia, and mood swings if I don't smoke...) Obviously when one has built a tolerance and a dependence to a relatively harmless substance, the last thing they want to do is compromise their mental health further by withdrawing..

I can debunk studies too - it is the easier approach.
Trying to extract some truth from a variety of studies to piece together a bigger picture...THAT is the difficult path.
That is what science is all about.

It's also about not jumping to conclusions without proper evidence.

The fact that it causes the 'munchies' and activates the stomach and intestines alone is a certain cause of 'serotonin activity'.
Are you prepared to argue this as well?

Yes serotonin activity in the gut is not the same as serotonin in the brain. But this is not directly true.

MDMA causes serotonin activity, and that really gives me the munchies! 8)

Actually the munchies are an after effect I usually get from weed once the high is over. Just because serotonin "activity" is indirectly going on in the gut does not mean the weed is affecting your serotonin "levels"

Once again you find correlation without showing causation.

If you have some kind of legitimate proof of this but I looked through everything you showed last time and could not draw the same conclusions you did as the evidence simply was not there.

The best study you showed last time showed lowered serotonin in daily users of cannabis. But it didn't account for the fact lowered serotonin--->depression--->daily substance abuse. I know this is true in my case and also many, many others on this forum...

Some 90+% of all daily substance users suffer from some untreated or inadaquetly treated mental disorder (IE DEPRESSION)

Depression's main cause has been linked to SEROTONIN DEFICIENCY. So its very possible these habitual users were only using daily --derp-derp.. THEY WERE PROBABLY ALL DEPRESSED! !! who puts chemicals in their brain every single fucking day unless something's wrong with it.

I've smoked weed daily since 14. It helped me quit the terrible SSRI's the doctors had me on. Zoloft, Wellbutrin, effexor etc. It worked much better and once I got to high school I quit my SSRI with minimal withdrawal and rid of my manic depression that started in junior high.

I didn't even make statements about cannabis increasing serotonin this time, either.
I simply pointed out that it has a strongly negative interaction with MDMA if used on a long-term heavy basis.
Simple enough...

The other study you showed me was some study that reported small doses of THC reduce pain in pain patients, while higher levels increase the pain, implying there is a "sweet spot" of effectiveness (as with all drugs...no shit sorry) and then you tried to pass it off telling me "small amounts of cannabis increase serotonin, larger amounts decrease it" or something else to that effect, when serotonin was nowhere mentioned in that study.


I'm not so much doubting you though as much as the sources you have drawn these conclusions from, because I haven't found it and you'd be surprised how much I research...

 

[Darksidesam]

100mg gives me eye wiggles, mdma-smile, strong euphoria, strong urge to dance and loved up feelings for a few hours +

im a daily stoner, i dont think it changes serotonin levels,
however,
I only get stoned once a day.

I notice when i vape lots of weed i feel very euphoric and my pupils sometimes get blown too

 

[TearItDown]

Realistically if he hopes to conintue enjoying a normal life he should stop for 5-6 months. That is some EXCESSIVE use. Your serotonin won't fully regenerate for 3 months. Slow down. Seriously. What happened to harm reduction, ED?

 

[Darksidesam]

Realistically if he hopes to conintue enjoying a normal life he should stop for 5-6 months. That is some EXCESSIVE use. Your serotonin won't fully regenerate for 3 months. Slow down. Seriously. What happened to harm reduction, ED?

I hear you,
I do

But it would appear OP is perhaps a Raver.

If i told my raving friends (Who consume half a gram of mdma in one night Easily) twice a month, to take a 3 month break they would laugh in my face and say STFU.

What I am trying to say is, a 30-90 day break is much better than a "pfft not listening to that mumbo jumbo" *Rolls again week after week*

 

[First Bad Comedown]

The fact is that most drug users lack even the most basic understanding of brain chemistry.
When public schools start teaching children about the brain, in depth, and perhaps a comprehensive drug education as well we will suddenly find a different culture.
Even among MDMA users.

There is very strong evidence that MDMA causes 'damage' to higher brain functions even in modest users.
But the plasticity of the brain allows for the symptoms to be ignored by the majority of people.
Who really measures the depth of their own visceral emotions?

And that, in my opinion, is what is truly lost to MDMA.
Verbal recall deficits and executive function are easier to measure for, but I doubt I will ever feel certain emotions the same way again.
In some small way, this was already happening to me prior to Serotonin Syndrome.
I just wasn't aware of it.

Even 90 days spacing is inadequate if MDMA is accepted as a true neurotoxin.
If you intended to roll throughout your adult life, do you really think every three months is feasible?
No.

And I know MANY people who think I was crazy for doing it as often as I did, which was nothing compared to your 'raver' friends.
Said one of them - "Dude, I'll take X like once a year. Then I'm good."

Some people can actually feel a change after each experience.
Because they are paying attention.

 

[i against i]

all this "give it a month" stuff is good if you wanna do it for years to come, but a few times in one month almost certainly won't fuck you unless you are super unlucky. it took 6 months of lots once/twice a week to seriously fuck me up (worst depression of my life, i have chronic depression, and previously OCD [both before ever doing mdma] so my serotonin system ain't exactly function correctly to begin with), 3 months off (granted, was a fucking horrible 3 months, stopped listening to music, stopped sleeping, stopped wanking, stopped doing anything, stopped functioning) and i'm back to normal, now keeping it once a month (two months down) and feeling fine. and if it does fuck you you'll almost certainly get better with time, but when it's happening you never think it will and would punch those in the face who tell you it will if you had the energy.

in the end, you're taking drugs.

 

[Darksidesam]

in the end, you're taking drugs.

Ive thought this argument through a lot of times now,
And i did again recently,

But i thought about it, and realistically everyone is different, everyone has varied serotonin levels and also lots of other mental and brain differences as well as body weight, age height.

If someone is going to take mdma for a month and thats it , then taking mdma twice in that month is probably not going to harm them as much as taking mdma once every 30 days for 2 years,
However.

With constant going dosing, as you mentioned yourself, after a while you started to notice it.

But then comes into the fact everyones 'tolerance' and sensitivity and susceptibility adverse negative side effects/ reactions. So thats why the guidelines are there, so that if people are using it rarely and at small amounts they are much less likely to recieve side effects / serious side effects.

Don't tell me for one minute that it dont mess people up.

I watched someone last night hallucinate and was scared shitless, then be in a bad way for the rest of the night, an anxious mess walking around. They honestly looked like a mentally ill person.

I explained to this person already, and about doseage, wait times.
When i told him how much i take, hes response was
"You dont know how to get on it properly then, I can take 1g of mandy easily"

 

[TearItDown]

I hear you,
I do

But it would appear OP is perhaps a Raver.

If i told my raving friends (Who consume half a gram of mdma in one night Easily) twice a month, to take a 3 month break they would laugh in my face and say STFU.

What I am trying to say is, a 30-90 day break is much better than a "pfft not listening to that mumbo jumbo" *Rolls again week after week*

Regardless if you're a raver or not (I am too), you need to show self control and you need to "show people the way" and it's definitely not the 1 month rule. I followed that for about 1.5 years before I realized it's just not worth it. Not only will your rolls be less enjoyable, your actions and perspective on many things will be altered. You can't back down or change what you think should be done or followed "because they're a raver". The need to be responsible in the scene is increasingly important as more and more people join our fun. And there is fun to be had in all these rules to be followed.

Alexander shulgin says that you should at most roll 4 times a year. For me, this equates to once ever 3 months, and that the golden rule that SHOULD BE FOLLOWED.

-TID

 

[MasterSplinter]

Splinters Thoughts (With MasterSplinter)

To say that cannabis doesn't affect serotonin is foolish.
If it didn't, why would smoking on MDMA be so amazing?

Has it really been so long for this old rat on bluelight that the only person he would recognize is FirstBadComedown?

Ah...it has.

Its good to know you are still profound on MDMA. I myself have rolled once a many moar times since we last parted ways my old friend. Now I am once again convinced that girls can convince me to do anything...yet MDMA always seems to leave a wrist cutting depression.

I so do enjoy my times on MDMA, but I would not survive them without marijuana. Im not sure why you believe it has such a harrowing effect on MDMA use for you.

I find it a delicious reward for the recovering mind.

 

[First Bad Comedown]

Well written as usual.

And I agree that marijuana in the days following MDMA is about the best relief possible.
Even now in the midst of recovery from MDMA induced 'brain damage' I find marijuana to have powerfully positive effects on cognition and mood.
Including a drastic increase in verbal fluency...

Alas, the benefits are very temporary.
The following day is quite unpredictable and may lead to a crippling psychotic response.

At least this is what would happen when I tried to smoke during the months 3-9 of recovery, which wasn't often.
Now I hardly have any interest in smoking, although I do wish it were like the good ol' days.
I suspect that a similar event would occur now, but I sense the end of this intolerance nearing.

I will never return to regular daily smoking as such a thing is ridiculous - regardless of how one perceives the consequences.
But I do believe that the short-term consequences of minimal use will return to some 'normal' level in the very near future.

Make no mistake - many MANY BL members and psychiatric patients have reported a horrific reaction to cannabis following MDMA toxicity.
And among MDMA users with severe emotional suffering, heavy cannabis use is too often seen to be dismissed as 'confounding'.

I do not believe that cannabis will automatically cause serotonin syndrome in heavy MDMA users.
But I do believe that long-term smoking increases the chances of certain elements of 'brain damage'.
And this should be no surprise - many drugs and alcohol cause slow and certain decline in brain function with chronic use.
Increasing the chance of complications with other drug use.

But it appears that MDMA and cannabis have a particularly sinister relationship.
If their interaction weren't 'profound' you wouldn't label it 'delicious'.
Right?

 

[rave_itsrealfun!!!]

Perhaps how burning has a tendency to increase one's self awareness of their body brings clarity to the damage from past Mdma abuse ? I understand that this damage often involves negative sensations in the gut. Then again, maybe there is emotional damage and it's not getting through to me cause of the weed. It is near impossible to say - there need to be scientific studies on the interaction of Mdma with Thc before jumping to conclusions because you got noticeable side effects and you were a stoner.

Man, some people were just meant to be baked all day. I've realized this weed anxiety does not hinder my performance in anything. I went into a job interview recently high as a kite, was questioned by 3 different people and had my best performance yet. I think I am finally accepting that I will probably be stoned for the vast majority of the rest of my life and that it is ok. Call me crazy - I am aware that smoking weed all day makes me pretty crazy, but I am very highly functional. Some people just like to be rediculous eh?

I have been baked nearly a decade, and I went through an insane Mdma abuse phase that should have left me braindead (a few years ago). I took it 4 days in a row, for instance, and maybe 30 times in a year, all "too much fun" experiences I knew must be doing something to my brain. Alcohol was regularly included. So I would say that lack of exercise and healthy dietary habits are much greater risk factors than being a stoner, because I work out daily and eat very well, and I don't have any noticeable side effects from my Mdma use, despite smoking enormous quantities of pot normally from morning til night. I just haven't changed at all since I did it a lot.

Weed adds anxiety to a lot of my activities, in the case of Mdma it leads me to become more self aware of the fact that this insane chemical made in a clandestine lab is in my brain atm and doing something crazy to it at that. Weed has always made me more physically self aware. Being a stoner really helps me keep my Mdma use under control and at reasonable doses, I haven't rolled in 8 months and have the opportunity to do so right now if I'd like. Weed also helps me keep up my excellent dietary habits due to how, for instance, I will really notice the negative effects of salt while baked. So pot makes me way less impulsive to do unhealthy things, so I would argue that it has decreased the damage my Mdma habit has caused my brain by helping me to be more sensible with the use of a hard drug. It has also led me to my current state which completely rejects the use of alcohol.

 

[5000m]

^ not into weed myself but your post is interesting

 

[First Bad Comedown]

Yes, a good post.

At many points in my early and mid twenties I would have agreed - I was a high-functioning stoner.
I performed well at work and school, even while high and it never gave me real anxiety.
I wasn't even prone to paranoia on it, except for the time I first tried hash after a few weeks of not smoking!

I imagine I could have continued smoking for many more years without any anxiety, were it not for MDMA and serotonin syndrome. And the roll of benedryl cannot be ignored - another factor among many.
But in the end it was cannabis that I used constantly and looking back I have little doubt that I could have taken a LOT more mdma, and even benedryl after, without experiencing 'brain damage' or serotonin toxicity.

I say this with the knowledge that MDMA is already neurotoxic and that 'damage' occurs with every user and every experience. But nothing in your post really has an impact on the research finding - MDMA users that experience serious psychological problems tend to be heavier cannabis users.

Just don't expect life to always work that way it has.
One day drugs, including pot, will begin to have consequences that you cannot dismiss.
This is inevitable in all people.

 

[TearItDown]

Has it really been so long for this old rat on bluelight that the only person he would recognize is FirstBadComedown?

Ah...it has.

Its good to know you are still profound on MDMA. I myself have rolled once a many moar times since we last parted ways my old friend. Now I am once again convinced that girls can convince me to do anything...yet MDMA always seems to leave a wrist cutting depression.

I so do enjoy my times on MDMA, but I would not survive them without marijuana. Im not sure why you believe it has such a harrowing effect on MDMA use for you.

I find it a delicious reward for the recovering mind.

I remember the days when "this old rat" would be banned repeatedly and then banned on your alternate account. lol

 

[BluLait]

You could try plugging some 5-htp and milk.

 

[crackysaz]

I agree with fbc with basically everything he has said. I rolled for the first time a month and a half ago at a rave and took around a 1/4 gram over the course of a night (had no knowledge of redosing or the effects of cannabis with it and smoked a fair bit on my comedown) and i felt dead for about a week. I still don't feel 100% though I am planning on rolling again soon. I'm going to preload and postload as much as I can and maybe try not to redose (though i'm not sure how you could stay up all night off one dose, i started to come down after just a few hours? Maybe that's just a good idea to let that happen instead) but i know it's going to be harmful. I just hope it's repairable. I'm not going to touch the shit for a while afterwards to hopefully i'll have atleast some time to repair. I'm also a regular smoker so i'm going to leave the bud for a couple of weeks before and after rolling too just to give my brain a rest. I'm also fairly young so i know this isn't going to be fantastic on my brain which i'm also worried about...