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Can I learn o-chem independently?

TheAppleCore

TheAppleCore

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I want to learn organic chemistry (at least at some point) so that I can better understand psychoactive molecules. Is it even remotely feasible to just sit down with a book and self-teach myself this field of science? If so, would any of you recommend resources?
 
Of course it's feasible. It just takes time, money and effort like most things.

The best advice I can give you is to ground yourself in basic chemistry principles like molarity and functional groups, basic biology (if you're into the drug-effects side of things I strongly suggest learnign about neurons, receptors, the synapse, protien synthesis, cellular biology etc..) and then read as much as you can. Another important thing: don't force it. Read what's interesting to you and eventually you will accumulate knolwedge.

Vogel's organic chemistry textbook is a wonderful reference for synthetic processes. The Merck index or equivalent is an indespensible refrence for the physical and chemical properties of compounds. There are also no end of pages on Pubmed/Wikipedia/Chemspider on organic molecules too.

2/3 of O-chem is just the terminology and theory, I think. The other 1/3 is actual lab practice that you won't get without breaking glassware and burning reactions.

The reason it's generally considered "hard" to learn O-chem effectively is due to the fact that in some jurisdictions (e.g. Texas) actual practice of chemistry without a license is forbidden. In those which it's not outright illegal, lab equipment/glassware/reagents can be very expensive. And there's always local laws regarding venting, waste disposal, zoning etc.

Organic chemistry is really just cooking for drug nerds, with a bit of math and physics sprinkled on top.
 
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unless you live in a restricted country, yes, you can achieve anything if you dedicate enough time and hard work towards it :)
 
sekio said:
Of course it's feasible. It just takes time, money and effort like most things.

The best advice I can give you is to ground yourself in basic chemistry principles like molarity and functional groups, basic biology (if you're into the drug-effects side of things I strongly suggest learnign about neurons, receptors, the synapse, protien synthesis, cellular biology etc..) and then read as much as you can. Another important thing: don't force it. Read what's interesting to you and eventually you will accumulate knolwedge.

Vogel's organic chemistry textbook is a wonderful reference for synthetic processes. The Merck index or equivalent is an indespensible refrence for the physical and chemical properties of compounds. There are also no end of pages on Pubmed/Wikipedia/Chemspider on organic molecules too.

2/3 of O-chem is just the terminology and theory, I think. The other 1/3 is actual lab practice that you won't get without breaking glassware and burning reactions.

The reason it's generally considered "hard" to learn O-chem effectively is due to the fact that in some jurisdictions (e.g. Texas) actual practice of chemistry without a license is forbidden. In those which it's not outright illegal, lab equipment/glassware/reagents can be very expensive. And there's always local laws regarding venting, waste disposal, zoning etc.

Organic chemistry is really just cooking for drug nerds, with a bit of math and physics sprinkled on top.
Click to expand...

I also have been working on learning organic chemistry.. can you post some useful resources?
 
If you just want to understand psychoactive drugs, it's not necessary to learn a lot of traditional organic chemistry as in reactions. You will want to understand things like acids & bases, aromaticity, spatial orientation of bonding, nature of bonding - hydrogen bonding in particular - and force interactions.

Then learn some molecular pharmacology and neuroscience - receptor and transporter protein structure and function, neuron structure and function, cognitive organisation, secondary messengers. That'll get you away. Once you understand these parts, either you'll hunger for more, or you won't. Good luck, its extremely rewarding, so persevere.


Oh, if you have some spare swag, do buy some textbooks. Really. I suggest buy four: Organic chemistry, pharmacology, molecular biology, and medicinal chemistry. If you must reduce this number, remove the med. chem textbook. If you want some specific suggestions for introductions:

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Rang-Dales-Pharmacology-STUDENT-Studentconsult/dp/0443069115 (I have this, it's good)
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Introduction-Medicinal-Chemistry-Graham-Patrick/dp/0199234477/ (I have this, it's good)
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Organic-Chemistry-John-McMurry/dp/084005453X/ (I have this, it's good)
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Campbell-Biology-Mastering-Student-Access/dp/1408277379/ (I have this, it's good)
 
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Pick up an Organic Chemistry book by L.G. Wade or Janice G. Smith. You can just read it from chapter 1 and you'll pick up the language of organic chemistry. Work every single problem in the book, twice, get a membership to cramster.com, check your answers. Ask questions about things you don't understand on cramster, be engaged in the learning process, etc. You can learn all the introductory level subject matter in a few weeks or less if you're good.

:)
 
I'd suggest trying Khan Academy's organic chemistry section, starting with "Representing Structures of Organic Molecules". It's a series of videos freely available online without need of registration or such. You can also go back to the general chemistry videos if you're finding it difficult to keep up with some topics.

If you want a more in depth or thorough study from there, then you could grab a few texts from your local library. No reason to purchase anything if you can use free alternatives.
 
Wow, these are some awesomely informative replies. Thanks a lot folks!

I'm excited to hear that Khan Academy has some tuition on chemistry. I've utilized that resource for a couple different branches of mathematics before. Is there no end to that man's knowledge?! He must be a walking encyclopedia! :D
 
Any advanced subject matter can be learned independently. Whether or not you can get a job from that is a separate question.

I am a self-taught software engineer, and now have traveled the world working for various companies, and my current one is high paying, I work from home, and extremely flexible.

A software engineer though, does not have a legal requirement for credentials. Due to liability concerns, I highly doubt a self-taught organic chemistry expert would be hired.

It is possible, surely. However they would have to pair you with someone who has the credentials, and essentially it's all -their- work, not yours, you are just an assistant.

I personally have taken up organic chemistry/psycho-pharmacology as a hobby to replace software engineering (which though still fun, burn out is inevitable and frequent when I work too many "fun" projects).

I have no intention of getting a job in that field though, and while I'd love to get a degree in Cognitive Science, I don't forsee myself having the ability.

I'm perfectly content being everyone's local "expert" though, and advising people in the ways of responsible/safe drug usage, and being able to give (though limited) advice as far as OTC medication is concerned, or their unapproved FDA drug usage.

Plan on taking some EMT or Medical Tech training eventually so I can function as an emergency responder of sorts when required as well. That is primarily so I can actually get involved and help someone without liability concerns due to proper training.
 
go to school by any means you can.

nothing beats hands on lab work.

plus your chances of finding a decent job will greatly increase with a degree.

chemistry the central science, brown
organic chemistry, wade
anatomy & physiology, tortora/wiley
 
I have a huge stash of all kinds of chemistry textbooks, including several o-Chem books. I'm pretty sure they are all pdfs. PM me if you are interested.
 
If they're public domain, or licensed to be freely available in electronic format, just post links. Otherwise, I don't think pirating is appropriate here...
 
Yet another textbook recommendation "Organic Chemistry" by Clayden, Wothers et al.

Imho the best textbook for basic introduction, with an unorthodox approach.

If you want to get into actual organic synthesis, I strongly encourage you to enroll in college to get proper lab training. Without proper practical knowledge and the right facilities, nasty things can happen.
 
I did 3 years of organic at a major university. Though you can learn it on your own I feel alot of the advanced topics might be hard to grasp without people to bounce ideas off of. Also if you view it as being related to drugs your doing it wrong. Organic is more like puzzle solving for chemistry people. I love drawing out reactions for all kinds of compounds, not just drugs. If the interest in chemistry came because of drugs it might lose its appeal fast. For me chemistry came way before drugs warped my mind. View it as solving the universes puzzles because you seek to know what electrons want to do and how to make them happy then you'll have no problems on your own. If you think you'll be able to make drugs I think you'll be disappointed. I love chemistry organic, inorganic I just love atoms.
 
Yes, I did. Sit down with the text book, make flash cards of every reaction. If you actually want to do organic chemistry, pick up a copy of Vogel's practical organic chemistry. If you need the basicx, pick up a first and second year laboratory exercise guide from the book store at your local university.

There's nothing wrong with an interest in drugs, that's how I learned all my organic.
 
Drugs are a catalyst to an interest in organic chemistry. They allow you to have a result you can see/feel/experience. I got into software development due to the ability to see the result of my knowledge, and experiment with what I learned to learn more.

It's the closest thing to magic that exists... alchemy. Sure you can't turn lead into gold (without some technology to strip and rearrange the subatomic particles), but whose to say it isn't any less magical to change an inert substance, or toxic substance, into one with beneficial/healing qualities.

Organic chemistry's only a major interest for me though in it's necessity to fully understand biology/neuroscience in an in depth manner. Then again... that's kind of what separates organic chemistry from the broader subject of chemistry I suppose.
 
I hope my interest in drugs will be sufficient motivation to put in the effort it takes to understand chemistry to the extent that I want. Szuko's response initially sort of deflated me.

In any case, I don't think that drugs will be the ONLY factor in driving me toward apprehension of chemistry. I do find the sciences of the basic laws of nature very interesting. I was fascinated with the subject matter of the thermodynamics course I took at my community college, although the class moved at such a fast pace, and I was so slow to digest the material, that I had to drop out. I was being left in the dust, so to speak. Hopefully with an independent-study situation where I can take all the time I need, I'll be able to approach chemistry more successfully.
 
So, given the option, would textbooks be preferable to PDFs or online lectures? Or would you guys recommend supplementing textbook chapters with lectures concurrently, or watching lectures and doing textbook problems, or...?

Part of me likes the idea of being able to take some time away from the computer screen to study chemistry. I do a lot of work and recreation on this machine.
 
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