Long term LSD abuse

[Okami]

Finally, the systemic administration of MDMA produced a 30% decrease in the concentration of ATP in the striatum and hippocampus. These results support the conclusion that MDMA produces a dysregulation of energy metabolism which contributes to the mechanism of MDMA-induced 5-HT neurotoxicity.

Wha? I'm dumb and don't understand. Explain please.

 

[webbykevin]

How far off topic are we going to wander ? This thread was about LSD, maybe start a new one called "Spurious opinions and vague comments about MDMA"

 

[Ismene]

Blue monday, suicide tuesday?
Downregulation of your receptors means they shrink, as a consequence it's physically impossible to feel as good as before until they return to normal

But don't SSRI anti-depressants downregulate your serotonin receptors too? And they're alleged to be a "cure" for depression.

 

[Ismene]

How far off topic are we going to wander ? This thread was about LSD, maybe start a new one called "Spurious opinions and vague comments about MDMA"

LSD is even safer than MDMA, and MDMA is pretty damn safe itself

 

[raver2008]

Im not a hundred percent sure on the specifics, but then again neither are any of the "scientists" pushing ssri's. In theory they do basically do what there name says, they inhibit the reuptake of seratonin in your brain, which is suppose to leave more seratonin in your brain than would normally be. But the fact of the matter is they have no clue, other studies have shown to much seratonin is responsible for depression. Then theres the studies that show ssri's to be only 2 percent more effective than placebo in just about everyone whos not an extreme depressive.

 

[rocknroll702]

i think if you take lsd often and arent truly sure of where the source of its coming from then you could be doing damage.

 

[webbykevin]

i think if you take lsd often and arent truly sure of where the source of its coming from then you could be doing damage.

Or you could be doing yourself a power of good, that's the trouble with woulds, coulds and shoulds.

 

[Ismene]

Then theres the studies that show ssri's to be only 2 percent more effective than placebo in just about everyone whos not an extreme depressive.

I thought they weren't any better than a sugar pill for anyone but the most extreme hospitalised cases and even then it could just be that placebos don't work as well in people who have been hospitalised - it doesn't mean the SSRI's are actually doing any good even in those cases.

Plus there's the problem that the trials were carried out with inactive sugar pills versus SSRI's - so you automatically know you have taken the drug rather than the placebo - which boosts the drugs effect in your mind. It would have been better if they could have had a placebo that had a physical effect rather than just a sugar pill.

 

[rave_itsrealfun!!!]

Regardless of whether or not Mdma has been proven to be neurotoxic, isn't it obvious that is is something that is way too much unnatural fun to be using on a regular basis? The chemical itself smells and tastes like poison - I know someone who has done it so much that seeing/smelling/sensing its presence will make his body gag and wig out. And just check out the ecstasy discussion, there are countless stories of people completely fucking themselves over long term. All this is enough for me - I think it is tremendously irresponsible to be abusing Mdma because it has not been "proven" to cause brain damage. There are a lot of people out there who have very little self awareness in this world, just look at all the crazy alcoholics. I quit doing Mdma.

I believe Mdma is very hard on the heart, and internal organs as well. This is just common sense, it's a hard drug (although it took me 20 rolls or so before I even realized that what I was doing was in fact an insane, super harsh chemical). Rolling is almost like a fad here - people do it who don't do any other drugs apart from Mdma. That this is happening is a testament to how fucked up our society is, that people need crazy harsh chemicals just to go out and be themselves.

I would like to know if anyone has actually felt “dumber” from acid, and how much they did. Dumber might mean you have worsened interpersonal and communication skills, a bad memory, you are impulsive, or unhappy etc. I wouldn’t include hppd in this. I think as of yet that it has only done good for me, which is frankly kind of funny and strange. Based on my idea of what intelligence is, I think acid has made me smarter but also kind of eccentric compared to my pals.

Consider marijuana - the stuff turns me into a total dumbass, antisocial negative creep when I overuse it, but it is supposedly "harmless". Cannabis has always been somewhat of a vermin in my life though - the character of acid is totally different, it feels so right. It feels like I might be able to do a lot of it, and something incredibly awesome might happen, but I don't want to get fucked over and realize it's horrible for me like what happened with Mdma.

And LSD leaves me basking in the clear light of the void for a little while, before fading away. I become more outgoing, loving and open to others. Does this positive effect diminish (or reverse) if you do it a lot, or does it become a perpetual thing?

 

[Folley]

But don't SSRI anti-depressants downregulate your serotonin receptors too? And they're alleged to be a "cure" for depression.

Yes, but they do this over a course of 10 or so years. MDMA can do this in a month with everyday years.

Lets please start talking about LSD again though. So any word on how HPPD is caused?

 

[Ismene]

Regardless of whether or not Mdma has been proven to be neurotoxic, isn't it obvious that is is something that is way too much unnatural fun to be using on a regular basis?

Nah, that's just the influence of the religious puritans who believe that life must be hard and unpleasant to please God.

Yes, but they do this over a course of 10 or so years. MDMA can do this in a month with everyday years.

No, you don't have to take SSRI's for 10 years for them to have their alleged effect (although again - the research into SSRI's is as worthless as the research into MDMA). And if you take a break from MDMA for a few months you still get the same effects so it clearly doesn't affect anything longterm.

 

[F1n1shed]

Ismene you seem to be a very simple minded person dude, one that shouldn't be around MDMA. You are clearly just trying to protect MDMA, a very hard chemical. Just because we do not know exactly how MDMA works, after many valid and respectable research papers you can add up that the bottom line is it does some pretty hefty damage. Dopamine getting picked up into the serotonin receptors as well as the long axon extensions from the serotonin cell bodies get damaged and degenerated in some areas. I mean you cannot really argue that, it is what it is. The spike of serotonin and dopamine MDMA releases at once is pretty massive, most other drugs can't even get near that level of neuronal activity happening at once. You are correct on the part that you can roll every few months, and still roll balls which i have done in the past. That doesn't mean all your neurotransmitters and receptors have come back in that time, it means you have enough replenished to get a nice high. Anyways your so positive MDMA doesn't cause long lasting changes and rewiring, go ahead and roll till you turn old. Just be sure to take a month off in between each roll, you'll be fine ... lol

 

[Norepadopamining]

i find that i have a sense of trauma after a trip, specifically with bad trips a traumatic experience of some sort last a few days after the trip, out of place, depressed, and i think thats due to serotonin depletion from ergots, though i find that psilocybin, being more natural generates a "better" trip, but if if find my self insufflating coke, or methylphenidate the day after that dopamine reuptake cancels the traumatic aftermath, but due to my anxiety and various benzo scripts i find my self losing track of what i put in my body, but with all psychedelics your experiencing phenomenons of unreality, with lsd for instance time repeating, hearing colors, seeing sounds, but i dont know if you would like to consider me crazy but i feel that psychedelics let us see the immortal, like its magic, im having a hard time elaborating my point, i guess look a hick or whoever it was who discovered dna, he was on acid, it opens a pathway in our brains, permanently, i mean my vocabulary has been much more fluent since my first ergot based use, creativity, thought process they are wonderful drugs, but acid in particular can be quit a down fall if your not in the right set and setting, its always good to have some sort of benzo while tripping, as an antidote, wheather or not you want to put the money you spent on it aside or not is up to you, but i will tell you peaking on shrooms to dubstep, n lava lamps in the thought process and phenomenons are wonderful, 5emo-dipt, vary similar to acid, i guess im going off track to the original topic, but i would NOT suggest abusing any hallucinogen, not only does it completely fuck with your serotonin andd sense of reality but tolerance is a big issue your dropp two hits monday, swim better take 4 the next if he wants anywhere near the same experience, i try to put all drugs behind me being that its too hard to keep up with urself in abuse alone, and HPPD, hallucination persisting perception disorder, can occur (permatrip) there all fun and great experience but its the reasoning behind it and the overall intent, but you will deffinently find your self looking like one of those goofs if u abuse psychedelics, you are considered legally insane while under their influence

let live, let experience the inevitable

 

[LucidShroomDmtier]

there is no adequte research on the topic cause any resarch is illegal.from personal exp

after trips am mentaly slower trips tend to disorganize my brain, ( all i have spend time tiding up in to terrible mess) epipathies mental brake downs and etc
am not sure how LSD healthy is.
the greatest danger though is in a bad trip( i had once and didnt used lsd since ), thinking about it makes me anxious still.

i totally felt like losing sanity ,voicess ,images totaly disturbing , feeling that i lost my body and creatures took control of it and am lost in a tiny part of my brain ,hell train bad trip, you are already dead bad trip, there is another you bad trip , feelings of pain and blood visions ,feelings that my body gets mutilated in millions of ways, hellish monstrosities who where draging me down in a totall chaos , energy vamps sucking my life out of me and etc

but the trip ended well an angel came and saved me and i felt calm and happy like all is over

LSD acts in mysterious ways

 

[Okami]

Ismene you seem to be a very simple minded person dude, one that shouldn't be around MDMA.

^This

 

[theghostofbillhicks]

LSD causes chronic psychoses in those who have not taken it.

 

[Battyboi69]

I always thought that Lsd was a 'more often u take the less it works' kinda thing so doesnt lend itself to abuse. I did know an experienced tripper who had a spiritual experience one time that he wouldnt stop babbling on about. 20 years later and he only just shut up last week.
I accidentally took ten tabs of so called doom dot (op julie for those who remember) and after 2 weeks mumbling and dribbling, was fine, you ask my psychiatrist.

 

[pofacedhoe]

How old are you Folley? The rave scene peaked in the UK around 1990. Since then it's died off in a big way. The quality of E has been so low for the last decade that it's use has dropped off considerably. That's why legal highs like mephedrone took off in such a big way 4 or 5 years ago.
[/I]

just to point out that pills and mdma were the cheapest back in 2006/2007 that i've ever seen them and there was great quality round then. mdma has come back in the uk in a big way and is still cheap and pure. meph explosion was just a temporary mdma supply blip around two years ago not five in the uk anyway...

 

[J.Wallace]

Not much scientific research done on LSD, it all stopped by the late 60's/early 70's if I'm not mistaken. However I can speak from personal experience, that using it too often can create a world that is very distant. For a 2 month period, I dosed once, sometimes twice a week on heavy doses. I eventually became very detached from my surroundings and my friends. Everyone felt distant, as though I didn't really know them anymore. I found myself staring at things for long periods of time, only to catch myself doing it and forcing myself to snap out of it.

I've dosed over 30 times in a years time at various dosages, usually medium to high, and have never experienced real flashbacks or HPPD. When I was doing it once a week for those two months, my vision did seem rather off and almost wavy, but it never lasted. Sometimes I get tracers in the corner of my eyes, and flashes of lines and what not but it's nothing major, nothing to really write about.

If you do it too often, it loses it's magic for sure. You get use to the trip world, and it begins to become your reality. Almost like crossing over to a new dimension.

 

[Nephtys]

Something just crossed my mind:
LSD is a serotonin agonist, if you 'abuse' lsd for a long term (read: take a lot of lsd) your serotonin receptors will regulate a little bit down...