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Do the empathetic properties of MDMA create "fake" but lasting feelings?

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Muffins11

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Moderators can delete this post if they want to, because it isn't the best question but it is still something that is really bothering me.

Yesterday evening I took MDMA with someone I had never met before and it ended up being the most intimate experience of my life. I won't go into much detail of what happened, but it was definitely by far the most "magical" roll I have ever had. However, under normal circumstances I don't think I would have felt the way I did with this person if I wasn't rolling. When I woke up this morning I felt very uncomfortable about the whole situation and am not quite sure what to think about the feelings, of what I think was actual love. When I see this person at school should I just act like nothing happened and that all the emotions that were felt were just created solely from the MDMA, or was this a real bond created from feelings that were actually present only amplified by the effects of the MDMA?

I know that with alcohol people get together only because they are so intoxicated they don't really have much will power to control what they are doing, but with MDMA everything is more clear than ever and the feelings really did feel true and concrete with this person. The events of yesterday have stayed in my mind throughout the whole day and they are driving me to the point of where I can't concentrate on anything without this person dominating my thoughts. I keep reminding myself that these feelings aren't real and that we would never probably even talk under normal circumstances, but there is always the possibility that this might be a real bond. I hope that this is only a symptom of the post-MDMA effects and that these feelings won't stay for much longer.

All responses are appreciated =) thanks for reading

I have taken MDMA on multiple occasions with the exact same pills I took this time so it is not like this was a first time MDMA experience or that my pills were stronger than what I normally take. Also just for those of you who are curious I have done weed, amphetamine of all sorts(not meth), mushrooms, and alcohol none of which have ever left an impression on me like this.
 
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you are getting into the phillisophical part of MDMA use here my brother.... real is just electrical signals interprated by your brain. whether or not the feelings are there because you took the MDMA together doesn't really matter...you got them now. and now you have to deside what to do with them.

sounds like you need to deside if you like this girl or not and if you want to see her again or not then find out if she feels the same way. The "MDMA made me do it" mantra is a big cop out IMO. I took a shit ton of MDMA in my time and never once was I ever out of control of my own actions.


just some food for thought...

MDMA cause a release of a chemical in your brain that is responsible for feelings of bonding. A mother's breast milk causes the same chemical to be released when she feeds her infant and the act of breast feeding causes that same release in the mother. this is the reason that mothers and child bond so closely....dose this mean that the bond is not real and you should stop loving your mother.
 
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I'd say go talk to her sober and try to forget that it was MDMA what brought up these feelings in the first place. Maybe you've actually found something valuable that required some mental barrier breaking help from MDMA? If you can't stand the person sober or just conclude you two have nothing together, then fine, just forget about the whole deal. You're risking losing something though, if you just never talk to the girl again.

What are fake feelings anyway? Like matt said, it's all neurochemistry. Would you discard a psychedelic realization/revelation about something because it was brought up by a drug? True it's not all black and white, like if you drink so much alcohol to the point of losing your memory/blacking out, would you or could you stand behind your actions and saying that evening, as in did you mean it all? This is different though I'd argue, you found/created a bond with someone, that's not the same at all.

What is love, baby don't hurt me... don't hurt me... no more! (oh I had that shit start playing in my head totally after writing this stuff)
 
^^ This. Perhaps MDMA helped you break down mental barriers. In my experience, the drunk hook up experience really lacks meaning Its more about chasing what the dong wants. Alcohol doesn't promote meaningful connection, it just lowers inhibitions. MDMA seems to lower inhibitions and promote true emotional connection. I think that you felt uncomfortable about it because you were having a little anxiety on your come down (very normal) and are nervous about seeing her again (again, very normal). TALK TO HER!!! Pursue it if it feels right!!!!
 
The thing is for me when sober, and I see a girl I like It's normally a huge step to go up to her and start a conversation, however, on MDMA I don't even think about it for one second, I just go up to her and say what I wanna say and any insecurity is a thing of the past, the funny thing is... when I'm sober and I wanna hookup I'm having a pretty hard time but when on MDMA, the girls are all over me naturally haha, just by being myself 100%, I can honestly say I've made some very close and good friendships while rolling and it probably wouldn't have happened without MDMA. Does that make it fake? No... it just removes the barriers which creates opportunity to truly get to know people. Actually because of this I refused roll with a good lady friend of mine because I KNOW I will tell her how I really feel about her and shit will probably happen. She has a boyfriend :(
 
Alright thanks a lot everyone who responded. I am a little conflicted on what to do and I guess I'll just see what happens when school begins...
 
No - drugs create feelings that are completely reliable and lasting!

Of course they are 'fake' or temporary.
This is true for ALL drugs.
And the idea that MDMA is somehow different is pretty astounding.

But I do remember my first few rolls leaving an impression on me that lasted weeks.
And I imagine in the proper setting and with guidance, the FIRST MDMA experience could indeed make lasting psychological changes in a person.
But clinical research on it is difficult and there is plenty of reason to be cautious - like the neurotoxicity.

Psylosibin has been linked to emotional changes lasting up to a year post treatment.
This is not a potent serotonin releaser like MDMA, but a 2a agonist.
LSD is a much stronger 2a agonist and plenty of people say it changed their lives 'forever'.

I've done the first but not the second, and I agree....
Mushrooms made a much LONGER lasting impression on my mind and spirit than MDMA.
I can still remember the movie I watched a decade ago during my first mushroom trip and how it opened my mind to new ways of thinking.
Despite the euphoria and emotional closeness of MDMA, no roll has ever had such a lasting impact on me.
Not in a positive manner, anyways.

2a agonism is the way to go if you want 'real' and lasting changes.
But with all things, moderation is the key.
Both release and agonism can down-regulate the precious 2a receptors - in both the prefrontal and visual cortex!
Mushrooms are less likely to do this than LSD, but either can make permanent changes in the brain.
That is what we are talking about, after all.
 
First Bad Comedown said:
No - drugs create feelings that are completely reliable and lasting!

Of course they are 'fake' or temporary.
This is true for ALL drugs.
And the idea that MDMA is somehow different is pretty astounding.

But I do remember my first few rolls leaving an impression on me that lasted weeks.
And I imagine in the proper setting and with guidance, the FIRST MDMA experience could indeed make lasting psychological changes in a person.
But clinical research on it is difficult and there is plenty of reason to be cautious - like the neurotoxicity.

Psylosibin has been linked to emotional changes lasting up to a year post treatment.
This is not a potent serotonin releaser like MDMA, but a 2a agonist.
LSD is a much stronger 2a agonist and plenty of people say it changed their lives 'forever'.

I've done the first but not the second, and I agree....
Mushrooms made a much LONGER lasting impression on my mind and spirit than MDMA.
I can still remember the movie I watched a decade ago during my first mushroom trip and how it opened my mind to new ways of thinking.
Despite the euphoria and emotional closeness of MDMA, no roll has ever had such a lasting impact on me.
Not in a positive manner, anyways.

2a agonism is the way to go if you want 'real' and lasting changes.
But with all things, moderation is the key.
Both release and agonism can down-regulate the precious 2a receptors - in both the prefrontal and visual cortex!
Mushrooms are less likely to do this than LSD, but either can make permanent changes in the brain.
That is what we are talking about, after all.
Click to expand...
Disagree, the feelings I have gotten from MDMA about others has been very real, and to this day I have a very strong bond with the people I shared the experience with and I never say things I don't really mean on MDMA. Feelings get amplified and social barriers broken down, THAT'S why your getting those feelings. Try rolling with someone you know you don't really like. I doubt the MDMA alone will make you suddenly like that person.
Also, MDMA has thought me to be convident and worry less about the little things. My confidence is ALOT higher then it was before I took MDMA, and it still is now.
 
First Bad Comedown said:
Of course they are 'fake' or temporary.
This is true for ALL drugs.
Click to expand...

Id have to disagree there too... I feel like drugs bring out emotions that we bury deep down. The emotions are almost always amplified tenfold, but are real none the less. I find when talking to someone I really like while rolling, Ill often open up and say the things I really want to say, but was too scared to before.

So yes, the emotions arnt 100% for real, and you can sure be fooled by the euphoria and love. That doesnt mean it cant bring out real feelings we keep down, thats why it is so effective in therapy
 
The real question, in my opinion, is not whether the feelings are 'real'.
It is whether or not they persist after the experience.

For example, if MDMA produces such lasting improvements why do you continue to roll at all?
Is each experience an additional improvement in function?
A never ending spiral upwards?

No - the drug must be repeated for the experience to be repeated.
As 'real' as the emotions are, they are a function of chemical signaling in the brain.
And life does not reproduce the cascade that occurs during MDMA use.
The only events that come close are orgasm, child-birth, and death.

Of course all those events also produce strong memories (maybe not death) that could be attributed to lasting changes in emotion. But do these changes not fade as all memories do?
Will you feel the way you feel about your MDMA experiences in five years?
Ten?

Again, the whole question is the persistence of change.
And I am arguing that the changes from MDMA fade more quickly than those of mushrooms and LSD.
This was my experience and that of many people I have conversed with.

Maybe MDMA is just too powerful to remain.
Maybe 2a agonists are more selective, rather than system-wide in their influence.

Of course, there is no experience in life (drug induced or not) that is truly persistent.
The mind and all that it contains eventually fades away.
That is the nature of life.
 
I was talking about that aswell, whether or not it's brought on by the drug it made me REALIZE what I feel deep down and gives me the nerve to openly discuss it with said person, afterwards because you talked to that person from the heart, you're feelings about them obviously will change. And no I don't think that is fake at all. You learn from experience, and mdma gives you just that. An experience :) It gave me a window into a life without being insecure, not giving a fuck and letting go, which now, thanks to that window, is much easier for me, also I became a DJ only after my experience at a show taking ecstacy, it made me actually understand what it's all about. I now make a living with it. Oh well might aswell quit, since those feelings are just fake and temporary.. :')
 
I have definitely became better friends with people after rolling with them. Also, I've had this conversation several times, how it kinda makes you fall in love. The first time I rolled, I kinda feel for this guy who I've never met before. Woke up the next day really sad and upset that my friend made me leave with out getting his number. One of my friends was like what is wrong with you!? It was so random guy, who cares. It definitely should of been who cares. Then I told her I was rolling and she said something similar happened to her, her first time. I don't know if you would of had as strong of feelings for the person, and MDMA just helped them come out. But I don't think they are fake. You did actually feel something for the person.
 
Green Machine said:
I have definitely became better friends with people after rolling with them. Also, I've had this conversation several times, how it kinda makes you fall in love. The first time I rolled, I kinda feel for this guy who I've never met before. Woke up the next day really sad and upset that my friend made me leave with out getting his number. One of my friends was like what is wrong with you!? It was so random guy, who cares. It definitely should of been who cares. Then I told her I was rolling and she said something similar happened to her, her first time. I don't know if you would of had as strong of feelings for the person, and MDMA just helped them come out. But I don't think they are fake. You did actually feel something for the person.
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Yeah this is exactly how I felt. Except I never really wanted to like this person in the first place for a variety of reasons, but I still can't help to think about what happened that day and I have a small soft spot for this person even though I don't really want it, if u kind of understand...
 
There was this girl we always used to roll with. She and I were not able to spend very much sober time with each other. When we rolled together we shared something so pure and unadulterated, we would sit and just look at each other. I enjoyed every part of her, physically and emotionally. We never made mention of how we felt until after four or five times. I had always wanted to say something. When I was sober I had a longing to be with her that made my stomach flop. When I was rolling I wanted nothing more than to be with her. When our feelings finally were unable to be contained we embraced, it was the most passionately romantic experience I have ever shared with someone. What I feel for her is love, whether under the influence or not. The feeling is mutual and it exists, it's tangible, "real".

It makes my stomach weak just typing this up.

MDMA, in all of my experiences, just lets me flood people with love. I do this when sober, trying to make everyone feel loved and such, but when I'm rolling I just pour it out and don't hold back for a second.
 
Tricky question this.
This is what I think: rolling with somebody opens you to each other at a basic level. You are not fearful the other person is not fearful, so nature takes its course.
Love while rolling means that you are compatible at a basic level.
On the other hand when both of you are not rolling all kinds of other shit comes into play. It's not that you are not incompatible its that your respective baggage is incompatible.
You could have a happy relationship if both of you can ditch the shit, but that is often very difficult.
You are young and still at school so there's no great danger involved, just go with it and see what happens. Might be helluva ride though!
 
Folley said:
Its not going to create new emotions that are real, but rather bring out the ones you cant (or wont) focus on normally
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Even though I didn't really mention this, it is one of my biggest concerns. If it brings out emotions we wouldn't normally focus on then it kind of makes it seem like the bond is only compatible when u are on MDMA, compared to when you are sober when u might have different emotions being expressed because there is no MDMA to alter your emotional state. But then again idk, I am new to MDMA and am still pretty young
 
The feelings were real, but whether or not they were substantial or appropriate is really up to your own feelings about the whole thing. Are you still friendly with that person? MDMA allows people to open up to each other emotionally in ways that would be difficult, but not impossible to achieve otherwise. I myself have made lasting friends 5+ years from the time we first rolled together.
 
Muffins11 said:
Even though I didn't really mention this, it is one of my biggest concerns. If it brings out emotions we wouldn't normally focus on then it kind of makes it seem like the bond is only compatible when u are on MDMA, compared to when you are sober when u might have different emotions being expressed because there is no MDMA to alter your emotional state. But then again idk, I am new to MDMA and am still pretty young
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Thats what happens when you do it too often... you dont have all the chemicals in your brain that it needs to function socially


That up has a down
 
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