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Long term LSD abuse

Folley

Folley

Bluelighter
Joined
Jul 7, 2011
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Sitting on a crystal throne in a castle made of LS
So... this thread has been long in the making LOL. I did a search, came up with nothing, so here I am!

Lets keep this thread on topic, eh? Thanks :D


OK, so LSD has a reputation for being a very safe drug, but then again, I thought MDMA was at first too. With things like flashbacks, HPPD, and some pretty obvious mental deficiencies among some of the harder abusing hippies of the 70s, is it not also obvious that abuse of LSD creates some long lasting changes to the brain?

I say yes, but to what extent? How can these changes be combated and what are harm reduction techniques we can use to prevent them? Obviously long breaks are the best choice, but I love my acid. So what do y'all have to say on the subject? Any old hippies who used to abuse LSD have some experience they would like to share of changes they noticed over the years?



Lets not have the shitty no-thought responses that seem to be in every other thread in PD please, intelligent discussion only ;)
 
The only long lasting "negative" consequences I've seen from long term users has been one of the following:

1. People who can't stand the "HPPD" symptoms. I honestly love seeing a random tracer in my peripherals, or a random movement where there was none. It isn't constant by any means, and even if it were, I'm not sure it'd ever actually bother me.

2. Spirituality changes. There are two types of long term acid users I know. Science minded, and spirit minded. The science minded people appear unaffected by the "spirituality" changes. The spirit minded people... end up getting really preachy about stuff that honestly usually ends up being more personal belief that isn't easily conveyed. They have a tendency to form cultish type groups, usually "converting" younger users who have some pretty bad substance abuse problems. They usually are well meaning, but their attempts to help people never seem to work as well as they'd hope it seems. That and preachy people get on my nerves. Have stopped associating with people who end up too engulfed in their own belief system and spend too much time proselytizing.

Of course the biggest danger I've seen from LSD is the people who have weak minds and don't know their limits taking far too much. What generally happens is a very strong and persistent form of grandiose delusions that continue until a visit to the psych ward. Psych wards have fixed everyone I've seen who have this problem usually within about 2 to 3 days. Still though... no one wants a trip to the psych ward to regain their life back because they made a poor choice while overestimating their limits.

The people I've met who get referred to as "fried", generally I've noticed are polydrug users. In my experience it's a long term usage of meth and LSD that seems to get them there, as opposed to solely LSD.
 
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Folley said:
Im a bit more interested in the science behind it, rather than subjective changes.
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I too am pretty curious as to the physiological changes that cause HPPD.

Long lasting spiritual changes are probably more behavioral adaptations/psychological rather than a strict physical change or damage.

Also the physical causes of the persisting grandiose delusions intrigues me too. It's pretty well known/confirmed that LSD is completely out of your system in ~72 hours, but it definitely causes some lasting changes to the brain processes at high enough doses, if a single visit to a psych ward can completely reverse the effects immediately and without requiring continued treatment. The first time this happened to a friend, 3 weeks after their dose (2 of which were spent in county jail due to their actions), they were still thinking they were going to change the world and their dog was the embodiment of their grandfather with such fervor, that I truly thought it was permanent. Then 2 days in a psych ward and they were back to normal. I didn't think it was possible. Second time this happened to a friend, they were in the delusional state for about 2 weeks before ending up in a psych ward. Luckily no jail for them, father intervened to get him admitted.
 
I totally agree with the chemical mixture of meth and lsd - its very bad and can easily speed up the "fried" effect of someone eating to much in my opinion.

seen some people so fucked up from doing meth before taking lsd with only 1 hit when i was on two they looked fried for days past and still seem to have effects- maybe bad meth mixture i dunno - off one hit he was SWEATING Bullets because he was COLD yet he was telling himself he was hot - we were outside at a festival in 2003 in california it was freezing lol -- he also was trying to throw away hella money in the toilet :(
 
You only posted it, give it another while.

Obviously long-term LSD abuse is going to get to you, just like any drug. People I know who've did this suffered from delirious-like hallucinations frequently and sometimes when using drugs afterwards would completely loose it at nothing, literally a switch would flick and they would go beserk.

I've seen a lot more harm from the abuse of other drugs daily/very regularly than LSD. But it isn't something that's recommended.

As for frequent use, but within reason, I bashed acid heavily for a 3 month period when I started to get really into it and have suffered no long term effects to the best of my knowledge. Likewise many people I know have been taking acid for plenty of time and have suffered no ill effects. If anything it could be considered beneficial, apart from those who get the weird 'Spirituality Changes' that are discussed above, but that's down to the person also.

Also, I would expect meth+acid to not be too great a combo. They wouldn't really synergise too well, some doses of amphetamine but not too high or MDMA are probably what I'd stick with for mixing. You don't want something too tweeky in case you do take a bad turn.
 
honestly, i dont know how many real longevity studies on LSD there have been. i dont think youre gonna get much hard emipircal physical changes youre going to be able to notice; due to the nature of LSD, everyone will be effected differently. if you aren't interested in the mental changes then you arent going to find much about it dude.

all the things ive noticed in people who have taken LSD for years is obviously mental. some things manifest physically (ie thousand yard stare etc), but most things that changes for a person are brought on by the way LSD changes their own mind.

obviously those predisposed to mental problems are typically more susceptible to psychotic episodes, paranoia, mania, etc brought out by the use of these substances. i know at least a handful of people that sure wouldn't have seen the mental hospital at such a young age.

for me and others that i know (weve only been taking psychedelics for 5 or 6 years though), there are some subtle differences in speech. i certainly clutter words together more, and im way quicker to say whatever comes into my mind, instead of thinking about it and choosing the words i wanna use. the way i approached art, music, and creative problems have been GREATLY altered. now im always looking for the "big picture" in these subjects, while valuing stream-of-consciousness, and improvisation as well. "living in the now", if that can be measured by these things. now you probably wont like these answers because they arent hard, noticable physical changes, but IMO a lot of the time it can be easy to spot someone who has taken a lot of acid by their eyes.
 
Well once again, it seems like the only side effects people are getting are subjective mental ones, thinking in a new way, opening of the mind... this happens with any drug. Its more pronounced among LSD users yes, but its still just changes in personality that could come from drugs, or meditation.


Take HPPD for example, thats an OBVIOUS change to the way your brain processes the data sent from your optic stems or whatever the fuck it is. If LSD is binding to 5HT receptors, cant we also expect to find some changes there? There has to be hard evidence... studies... theories... any thing.
 
OP look into Nichols' work if you already haven't. pretty much the only thing to go by. there really hasnt been many modern studies of LSD, and what you are talking about certainly hasn't been done to my knowledge.
 
you would think erowid would be your one stop shop - however im "sure" youve already looked thru the whole site for what you are asking about? what kind of lsd are you planning on consuming next folley? how many mics? what environment?
 
rocknroll702 said:
you would think erowid would be your one stop shop - however im "sure" youve already looked thru the whole site for what you are asking about? what kind of lsd are you planning on consuming next folley? how many mics? what environment?
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Im planning on taking the only kind of LSD there is, LSD... lol... its liquid, but that makes no difference. I almost always trip alone, or with my best friend, and we chill around the house for a while and then go out into the woods. No one knows the amount of mcgs are in their acid, but Id guess anywhere from 125-200, its very top notch stuff


Ive looked on erowid, but it still seems that all anyone wants to talk about are changes in personality, and not hard data. MDMA has been proven to cause pretty severe 5HT down regulation, thats the kind of thing Im looking for
 
Folley said:
Ive looked on erowid, but it still seems that all anyone wants to talk about are changes in personality, and not hard data. MDMA has been proven to cause pretty severe 5HT down regulation, thats the kind of thing Im looking for
Click to expand...

thats because MDMA causes the down regulation after every dose (at least to my knowledge). there have been no studies on MDMA in terms of longevity the likes of which you describe.(again at least to my knowledge) the only information i believe you'll be able to find will be the subjective kind which your clearly not looking for... i guess what im saying is good luck haha.
 
Whenever I think about the possible permanent side effects of long term LSD abuse I think of Timothy Leary. He did a LOT of LSD in his lifetime. I wish they would have run a bunch of tests and scans on his neurochemistry and whatnot before he died and compared it to that of an old man who didn't do any drugs. He was also pretty much an alcoholic in the 50's so that might have done some (albeit probably not much) long term damage to his brain.

With no real scientific information available I usually just think that if Timothy Leary was fine after doing that much acid hopefully i'll be fine after doing as much as I ever do. Unless you fall into an intense psychosis with full blown delusions and end up in a psych ward I don't think there's that much of a risk in doing acid 2 times a month, maybe more for a long time.
 
More like 3 or 4 trips a month... in January it was 6 lol plus one shroom trip, most of that all in a weeks time... but anyways.


Im not so much that Im worried about my own brain, but that if we know the causes of HPPD and other damage we can find ways prevent it and combat it when it happens
 
I've found something on bluelight you maybe find interesting:

Long Term Use Resulting in Permanent Personality Changes- Most of us know somebody who has tripped a few too many times. This person isn't usually dangerous, or altered in any way that is easy to put your finger on. They tend to be just a little bit eccentric, or a little out there.
There are a lot of plausible explanations for this. The most likely seems to be that every time we put our mind through an experience, it burns a memory of that experience into its cells. Do it enough times and there will be noticeable changes. It’s the same theory behind how meditation can lead to enlightenment, or how habitual behaviors are developed.
The mechanism of action behind how this works is complex, and I won't attempt to explain it in detail here. What you need to know is that any excitatory experience (in other words any experience that causes stimulation in the brain, or any experience period) releases neurochemicals which kill some brain cells, at the same time new pathways in the brain are being formed (or strengthened after repeated use). These two mechanisms work to cause changes in our personality based on our experiences. But I digress…
The answer? Moderate your usage.
 
I would say it's a matter for personal judgment on an individual level, There are no real rules or natural laws that say it is wrong for a person to define and reinvent themselves through the unfolding course of their life however they see fit.

It's a matter of personal happiness and if choosing to incorporate an experience over a prolonged period is making you happy and content with how you feel as an experiential being then it's your call. Be it LSD, Meditation, Diet any kind of ritual or habitual regular activity that in your opinion is enhancing your life.

What is normal ? main stream society ? I fucking hope not, in fact I'm sure its not, it's all an illusion, it's all whatever the individuals on the game board choose to believe is normal, If someone took LSD every day for years and totally changed some major physiological systems and structures within their brain chemistry, their bodily systems and they were completely living with a view of the universe that was far removed from what society and us as individuals would understand or call normal what of it, if they are digging it its all cool..

So what if it shortens their life by a few years, or a lot of years ? Maybe they saw as much in a weekend as most people see in a lifetime, real experiences are outside of time. if someone truly enjoys a life with a radically altered state of consciousness that's their business in my opinion.

Those people shine like stars, they throw out the rulebook and just make their own adventure.

People take life and psychedelics and sanity way too seriously.
 
The problem with the illusion of society is the fact it is against lsd use.
You say so what... But society has a point. How many bad trips haven't been there? There are way too much people who can't handle lsd. It's rather strange people see How fucked up society is through psychedelics. that's fucked up, isn't it?
 
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