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I need to get my shit together....

K

Krowsnose

Bluelighter
Joined
Jun 26, 2006
Messages
401
Location
Richmond va
Been a while since posting here. Long story short, I've been using loperamide for over a year now as a self-directed form of maintenance. I'm taking about 24mg daily.

I was thinking of just biting the bullet and finding a prescription for suboxone. It seems that every place that prescribes it requires that you also enroll in an IOP program. I've gone through those twice already and do not have the money or desire to do it again. Do all places in the US require you to go through an outpatient treatment in order to be prescribed sub?

I apologize if TDS was not the best place for this thread. I figured a lot of people here know about sub and opiate dependency. I am stressing the hell out over this if that's any justification for posting here. :P
 
Krowsnose said:
Been a while since posting here. Long story short, I've been using loperamide for over a year now as a self-directed form of maintenance. I'm taking about 24mg daily.

I was thinking of just biting the bullet and finding a prescription for suboxone. It seems that every place that prescribes it requires that you also enroll in an IOP program. I've gone through those twice already and do not have the money or desire to do it again. Do all places in the US require you to go through an outpatient treatment in order to be prescribed sub?

I apologize if TDS was not the best place for this thread. I figured a lot of people here know about sub and opiate dependency. I am stressing the hell out over this if that's any justification for posting here. :P
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Really.....Your using loperamide for rec use? I've never heard of that one. I know loperamide is an opiate but always thought that it doesnt cross the blood brain barrier very well. Anyways, For methadone you must enroll into a program with or without medicade/medicare. Without it you pay like 5 or 10 bucks a week. With suboxone all you have to do is get a list of regular doctors in your area that are allowed to prescribe suboxone and if the doc finds it reasonable to prescribe you this he will. He would write you a script for subs and you pick them up at the local pharmacy as you would any other med.
 
Is there any way you can prove you've been through the treatment before? any certificate of completion or a number that you can call? If not, then the only way you migh be able to so would be to play by their rules, suck it up and do it again. I mean, you might not have the desire, but if you think it's worth getting the suboxond then it might be the only way.
 
www.suboxone.com will steer you towards a physician that prescribes it. But I'm confused: you want sub for your Immodium dependency? You will have a hard time finding a doctor who will treat you with sub for a perceived dependency upon Immodium. The vast majority of doctors do not believe that it has any potential for abuse as an opiate would, despite how you may feel. Or did you begin to use the Immodium for something else?
 
Missykins said:
www.suboxone.com will steer you towards a physician that prescribes it. But I'm confused: you want sub for your Immodium dependency? You will have a hard time find a doctor who will treat you with sub for a perceived dependency upon Immodium. The vast majority of doctors do not believe that it has any potential for abuse as an opiate would, despite how you may feel. Or did you begin to use the Immodium for something else?
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^^^ Exactly
 
I've been on the suboxone program for almost a year, and they never required me to join an outpatient program or anything of the sort. Same for the people I know who are also on the program.
 
I think that one thing that BLers and doctors will usually agree on is that it's never a good long-term choice to be climbing the opiate ladder. Assuming I read your first post correctly, you put yourself on loperamide maintenance to get off of a different opiate habit, right? That would be a step in the right direction (though I question why you remained on it for a year). However, moving from loperamide to suboxone would be moving to a stronger drug, complete with significant physical dependency and a (perhaps subtle) psychological shift.

Why do you think you need Suboxone, as opposed to tapering the lope on its own?
 
zelmo_swift said:
I've been on the suboxone program for almost a year, and they never required me to join an outpatient program or anything of the sort. Same for the people I know who are also on the program.
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It's probably case-by-case, I imagine, but I do know that there are specific patient criteria that must be met in order to receive treatment with Suboxone by a physician who has received certification by the DEA to prescribe it for opiate dependency in an outpatient setting. I'm just not certain that loperamide use would satisfy those criteria.
 
Yea, I definitely wouldn't bring up all the info about my loperamide use to a sub doctor. I began using loperamide to ween off stronger opiates, oxycontin, morphine, heroin. Loperamide seems to have a strong effect on me. I ended up taking it carelessly in large quantities (it can have a euphoric effect on me, I know that sounds ludicrous) but for the last 3 or 4 months have been weening down on it. (I do go through withdrawals if I stop cold turkey on it, they aren't as bad as oxycontin/heroin withdrawals but they seem to last a lot longer).

I could provide proof that I've been through IOP programs in the past and based on the responses here it seems like I could find a doctor to simply give me a prescription if I can explain to him the situation I'm in. I'm going to keep looking around.
 
I suggest you ween if the loperamide. Do not go to suboxone if you have been on loperamide for a year. Thy woul be putting yourself back to square one. Suboxone is very strong and the withdrawals will last very long and are painful. I am currently weening off suboxone and it's extremely hard.
 
KAYLA2010 said:
I suggest you ween if the loperamide. Do not go to suboxone if you have been on loperamide for a year. Thy woul be putting yourself back to square one. Suboxone is very strong and the withdrawals will last very long and are painful. I am currently weening off suboxone and it's extremely hard.
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Agree x infinity.


Plus, no doctor is going to put you on Suboxone for loperamide "dependency." I'm not trying to minimize how you feel in response to loperamide, but it would be malpractice for a doctor to place you on Suboxone to treat your "dependency" upon a medication that does not penetrate the blood-brain barrier (except in very, very, very few individuals, and not in a dose-dependent manner), and has no documented potential for abuse, having at best a placebo effect. There's no way a physician could defend him or herself against any charges of medical malpractice stemming from such a case. That doctor would lose their license.

Plus, like KAYLA said, if you're having trouble kicking Immodium, wait until you try to kick Suboxone.
 
Krowsnose said:
Yea, I definitely wouldn't bring up all the info about my loperamide use to a sub doctor. I began using loperamide to ween off stronger opiates, oxycontin, morphine, heroin. Loperamide seems to have a strong effect on me. I ended up taking it carelessly in large quantities (it can have a euphoric effect on me, I know that sounds ludicrous) but for the last 3 or 4 months have been weening down on it. (I do go through withdrawals if I stop cold turkey on it, they aren't as bad as oxycontin/heroin withdrawals but they seem to last a lot longer).

I could provide proof that I've been through IOP programs in the past and based on the responses here it seems like I could find a doctor to simply give me a prescription if I can explain to him the situation I'm in. I'm going to keep looking around.
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So what do you plan on doing? Are you going to lie to the doctor about the drugs your taking?

You don't just show up, get your script and walk. When I was on Sub, four visits were required before I was given my own script to take home. You have to appear for urine screens and so forth.

Seems like a lot of work and $ to get off Immodium.
 
You may want to try to get off the loperamide without suboxone, because you really don't want to go there unless you can't function without some sort opiate in your system. My suggestion would be to set up some sort of taper schedule, OR get some Kratom and kick it all at once. Kratom wonders to alleviate WD symptoms, restless legs, anxiety, chills, the whole shebang. I really have no idea how long a loperamide WD would take, but Kratom will definitely make the process easier whether you taper or kick it all in one go.To give you some idea, I used Kratom to kick a 20mg daily methadone habit (while tapering), and I was functional enough to attend my college classes.

Bottom line is that you don't want to get onto something like subs unless its totally unavoidable. A friend of mine got on them to kick an IV heroin habit, and it took him at least a year to get off (he tapered himself off, but the last 1-2 mg took him several months to finally drop). Kratom on the other hand, isn't such a dramatic step up the opiate ladder (more of a step sideways, if anything :) ). I would really give this a shot before you commit yourself to getting on subs.
 
I've tapered off subs after about a year of use and I've tapered from a loperamide habit of about 24mg/day for around a month. I realize my Lope habit wasn't as long as yours, but tapering from subs was far more difficult. I would recommend against getting on subs, I think that would be a case of tremendous overkill. Have you tried a slow taper off lope, maybe around a 1mg drop every 1-2 days? People tend to underestimate Lope WD, it is a full agonist after all. But, sub WD will surely last as long as Lope WD and is more intense IME.

Kratom may not be a bad idea, it has a significantly shorter half life. Though you may find it psychologically more addicting than Lope.
 
Missykins said:
Agree x infinity.


Plus, no doctor is going to put you on Suboxone for loperamide "dependency." I'm not trying to minimize how you feel in response to loperamide, but it would be malpractice for a doctor to place you on Suboxone to treat your "dependency" upon a medication that does not penetrate the blood-brain barrier (except in very, very, very few individuals, and not in a dose-dependent manner), and has no documented potential for abuse, having at best a placebo effect. There's no way a physician could defend him or herself against any charges of medical malpractice stemming from such a case. That doctor would lose their license.

Plus, like KAYLA said, if you're having trouble kicking Immodium, wait until you try to kick Suboxone.
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I agree. The point of maintenance like suboxone is that it replaces a potentially harmful substance with a less harmful one that's easier to manage, the exact opposite of what you're asking a doctor to do for you by stepping you up onto an even stronger, more abusable opiate. You'll have a hard time selling the need. You don't fix a habit that's got away from you by making it even harder to break Your best bet is taper the Immodium and ask a doc for non-opiate meds that will make a detox easier for you.
 
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