Clear water after CWE.. BUT..?

[Drew.]

First post.
I've been perfecting my CWE with a substance known as
codeine phosphate.
The pills are crushed (8mg codeine, 375 mg aspirin (asatlytic acid) and 15 mg caffeine.
I then throw them into refrigerated water, 75 ml, stir, then dump them through a folded paper towel and the remaining extract goes into the bottom of a cup.. The resulting solution is crystal clear... No little pieces, no nothing. Just looks like water.
But in every extraction walkthrough I come across it claims to require warm water, which you let drop to normal temperature then throw in threw freezer before extract.. I've done both but have been doing it my way for a week or so...
So my question is: if the resulting solution is clear, are you actually safe? Why do all the heating and cooling for aspirin extracT if you can just get cold water to work just as well, if not BETTER?

 

[Pjkt2501]

What are all the ingredients in the tablets, both active AND inactive? There's likely something inactive staying behind.

NO heat should be used - this allows more of the nasty crap you're trying to get out to come into solution. Opiates are very soluble at low temperatures, which is why this process is effective.

 

[effie]

I see no reason at all for the water to be warm at any point, as PJ said opioids are freely soluble in cold water. I've never used warm water cooled down. Crush your pills up more if they aren't dissolving.. Whole point is cold water extraction, you are quite right..

Does it say warm water then cool it down in the CWE megathread in the OD directory? Literally about to run out the door so no time to check..

 

[Pjkt2501]

Ah, after re-reading your post (OP), are you saying to heat and cool the water BEFORE adding the crushed pills?

This could be for water sterilization purposes if so.

 

[effie]

^ in which case you need to heat it at.. some temperature above boiling, I forget what, for over 10 minutes to properly sterilise it. Boiling it for a bit will kill a lot of bugs but not all. Just warming it will actually encourage the bugs to grow..

Plus your stomach acid can take care of most of the bacteria which would contaminate a CWE I drink straight out of the cold tap...

(okay NOW I am running out the door haha.. damn BL)

 

[Drew.]

My sources:
http://www.erowid.org/pharms/codeine/codeine_faq.shtml

2. Measure out some nice hot water, use approx. 40 ml / 20 tablets or more if needed. I would suggest you don't go over 50 ml for 20 tablets. I don't know if the use of boiling water would destroy any of the codeine but your best bet is not to use it. Use hot water but not boiling. Make sure the tablets dissolve completely. Some dissolve on contact with water while others need some help dissolving by crushing them. Note : not all of the tablet will dissolve, there are water-insoluble fillers in the tablet and not all of the A/A will dissolve either(which is what we want).
(Most sources recommend that codeine not be stored at temperatures in excess of 40C (104F), so its probably better to use warm, but not hot, water. I find that it is best to crash the tablets completely in a container, and then dissolve them in a glass with water.)
3. Place the solution in a cold bath, I just use some ice cubes in a container of water.

===================

Another source:
http://www.drugsandbooze.com/showthread.php?18708-Performing-a-Cold-Water-Extraction-(CWE)

2.) Take about 1/2 a cup (100 mL) of water warm to hot water and pour it into your bottle, jar, or whatever you're using. Make sure the water isn't too hot, if you can hold your finger in it, it's okay. Take your pile of powder and pour it into the container of water somehow. Put a lid on and shake it up until you can't see the pile of powder in the water anymore. This should take around 5 mins.
3.) Take your bottle or jar and pour the liquid into the bowl as soon as you're done shaking. Put the bowl in your freezer (or fridge) and let it get really cold, but not to the point of freezing (~42° F or 6°C). When the temp. is right, or you can see stuff at the bottom of the bowl (about the same amount of powder you put in) you can take it out.

========

I'm assuming sterilization... is not the issue here. There are more topics like this all over the internet.
And I am thinking corn starch is leftover in the extracted solution? I will have to go home and check the ingredients but I am mostly concerned of aspirin getting into the finished, "Clear" solution.

Once again, my questions is: Specifically with these tablets, if the solution is crystal clear, does this mean the aspirin has been taken out?

EDIT: I believe they are ASPIRIN 222'S - as the pharmacist kept referring to them... the brand I am not sure. But it goes 8/15/375....
I will update the post when I am able to check the ingredients..

 

[effie]

Sounds like it is just to help the codeine dissolve. Unnecessary if you crush your pills well and give it a bit of time (and a stir...) IMO/E

In answer to your question: it is not a guarantee but as long as you followed the procedure correctly then yes. 3mg/ml of aspirin can dissolve in cold water so there will be a little bit there, but any insoluble particules would stop the solution from being absolutely crystal clear. You might miss a few though to the naked eye..

As long as you have followed the procedure, used cold water (whether it is heated first or not), used a decent filter and the solution is clear then you are all good

 

[Drew.]

Sounds like it is just to help the codeine dissolve. Unnecessary if you crush your pills well and give it a bit of time (and a stir...) IMO/E

Interesting...
Pff, I always pre-crush before an extraction. Makes everything a lot quicker and easier.

 

[effie]

^ indeed! I use a hand blender myself :D

I really can't see any other reason why they suggest using warm water...

 

[Pjkt2501]

Given that there's twice as much caffeine as codeine in these pills you're using, you're going to have a tough time enjoying any sedative effects from the codeine. ~200mg of codeine would be sufficient to feel good (assuming you're used to ~15-25mg hydro/oxy-codone), which would produce around 400mg of caffeine, which would definitely ruin my day.

 

[Drew.]

^ indeed! I use a hand blender myself :D

I really can't see any other reason why they suggest using warm water...

ME TOO! Hah.

Unfortunately... I have never done the math. I just use 75 ML (sometimes 100, sometimes 60) and just... go from there. I never have been able to calculate it right, I get some zonky numbers... it must be so easy I'm missing it.

This could be a serious problem as I am not using a procedure to measure 3mg/ml of aspirin. I don't get it - at all. Can someone please explain this procedure to me? I use 26 pills in 75 ML of water, which produces close to 200mg codeine and 400mg caffeine.

Pjkt2501
Given that there's twice as much caffeine as codeine in these pills you're using, you're going to have a tough time enjoying any sedative effects from the codeine. ~200mg of codeine would be sufficient to feel good (assuming you're used to ~15-25mg hydro/oxy-codone), which would produce around 400mg of caffeine, which would definitely ruin my day.

I take 200 mg, and the 400 mg of caffeine and it's great. First half-hour is some caffeine jitters , which is when I usually smoke a bong of cannabis, and it all calms down after that.
The caffeine generally lasts fourty minutes, and then I am sedated and sleepy.

PLEASE note that I've had more than three 4-packs of redbull with alcohol in one night, and in the past had abused caffeine. My tolerance for caffeine is odd - I get a pick-me-up, and then I crash. No matter what the dose is.
And 300mg of caffeine is what is in an ordinary Monster Energy Drink... 100mg more and you're up to me.

ALSO: these 26 pills have a 9,750 MG of Aspirin total WHICH CAN KILL YOU AND SHUT DOWN YOUR LIVER FOREVER ******

 

[Pjkt2501]

10g of aspirin, if consumed in one go, can cause the liver to shut down rather quickly (but of course that's why you're doing the CWE - just figured to state it anyway for HR purposes).

If that amount of caffeine works okay for you, then have at! I just know that a dose of caffeine like that would turn me into a jittery, agitated, irritable mess.

 

[Drew.]

Thanks, I put that in (although I did already know that, thank goodness)

So if I have been improperly extracting with the math amounts, doesn't that mean I am still receiving lethal doses of Aspirin?! Or if not lethal doses, they certainly must be extremely high. Even if the solution is "clear as water", it could still have 1000mg+ of Aspirin in the concoction...
This scares the living crap out of me.

 

[Pjkt2501]

1g of aspirin isn't worthy of huge concern, that's the "max in one go" dose, 2g is the "max in a day" - however it varies country to country (which I find both odd and a bit irritating). The body can "safely" consume about 4g of aspirin in a day, but it's highly un-advisable (sadly, I've eaten ~4.5g/day several times in my life, and ~3g quite a few more...), but that's given that you're not taxing the liver with other chemicals as well, and have a very healthy liver. Someone w/ an alcohol problem has a much lower window of toxicity with APAP.

 

[Drew.]

My major concern is these 26 pills have a 9,750 MG of Aspirin total
I've been extracting, but not doing math.
This *potential* incorrect extraction could have given me more than 1000mg of aspirin. It could be 2,000 all the way to 8,000.

In other words, because of this, I could die or have a liver failure sooner than planned.

 

[i against i]

get a better filter (like a coffee filter...), be very careful, use less water, you should be ok...

i find a rolling pin best to crush the pills...unfortunately 32 8/500 apap does nothing for me...after on and off h..."has my tolerance gone does yet? must have!" very excited...prepping carefully...empty stomach...drink that nasty nasty shit..."fuck, what a waste of my time and £1.75!"

 

[Drew.]

get a better filter (like a coffee filter...), be very careful, use less water, you should be ok...

I found a coffee filter makes it extract even FASTER than paper towel/ paper towel and napkins together... so I was hesitant to use it...

 

[Pjkt2501]

A coffee filter would be my go-to.

Unfortunately there's really no way to know what's in your drink w/o some heavier math. There's a way to do it (solubility properties of the chemical at x atmospheric density at y temperature), but it's a PITA no longer actively taking chemistry courses / having easily accessible data.

A gent had actually written a program for calculating this, but the thread was immediately closed down because there's no perfect method of ensuring your filtration is spot on. The best you can do is to use quite cold water, and let it run its course. I'd suggest finding some more potent medication if that's not working for you. It can be worth it to spend the $ on something w/o APAP to get the effect desired w/o damaging your liver.

If you could find out how big (in nM) a codeine molecule is, you could purchase a filter with pores only slightly larger. This would work best assuming that the opiate has the smallest molecule, but that's somewhat unlikely I feel. However combining this with proper temperatures and methods would go farthest in ensuring safety.

 

[Drew.]

This is strictly OTC (over the counter), and 8/15/300 is the most you can get without a prescription. I've went through probably 11 or 12 bottles of 100 packs entirely since I've discovered it (haven't really been keeping track, make sure you do!)
So you guys are basically telling me when you extract, you're unaware of how much Aspirin is going to be in the end solution?
If you were going to take 26 pills of 8/15/375 how would you go abouts extracting the aspirin?

 

[Pjkt2501]

Oh I figured this was being done through OTC methods, is there nothing with a better codeine to APAP ratio?

We don't have any opiates available what so ever (aside from the non-active loperamide) OTC-available in the USA.