Camping, would dosing LSD twice in a day be worth it?

[Ismene]

And most of those molecules are not in the brain at any one time.

Perhaps, but how many LSD receptors do you think the brain has?

You are saying that although you believe LSD occupies all receptors (saturation) at low doses

I'm saying that Tim Leary claimed that he could give people any dose if he told them they were getting 250mics. I think I made that fairly clear.

you are still able to feel doses higher than that.

I think you can yes, but I havn't carried out the same tests Tim Leary did. Obviously when you know you're getting a big dose that can have an effect all by itself. How much of an effect I'm not sure because I've never carried blind placebo tests.

The reason why you can feel higher doses is because saturation occurs at much higher levels than most people imbibe.

Well, that's a slightly different point isn't it - you're talking about the initial dose. What we're discussing is why once you've had LSD floating round your system for any length of time another dose of LSD has no effect.

 

[DwayneHoover]

I can't explain what happened to you Ismene, but I know from experience that redosing several hours later CAN definitely create a renewed sensation, but with a somewhat attenuated impact. The SOONER you redose the more effective. And your tolerance for the following week or 2 will be greatly magnified over what you would get it you had only dosed once. I suppose I did not take enough to "fully saturate all receptors" the first time. (All this talk of "receptor saturation" is just a bunch of layperson guesswork, with no actual scientific analysis or academic research behind it, IMO.)

It seemed to be more effective if there was some nutrition, vitamins, plentiful hydration, and a little down-time in-between (some kind of rest, relaxation, meditation etc.)

Also switching the domain of the substance seems to give greater effect, like acid for the first trip of the day, then shrooms or an RC for the second, or vice-versa.

Anyway, if you have laid off psychedelics for a while beforehand and have little or zero tolerance to start with, redosing once then again later in the same day CAN have rewarding effect, for instance at a festival or camping, once early in the day for energy and fun in the sun, some food & a little rest, then dosing again at night... not as strong as the first time but definitely not "zero" effect as Ismene asserts, as always over-inflating his expertise.

 

[rollinlonely]

i dosed lsd 2 days after tripping and it just put me in a deep sleep... and two days after that same thing. it had its effects just no visuals- vivid dreams and the altered mindframe were quite present that whole week after halloween. but the trip halloween night was extremely intense

 

[Thorns Have Roses]

Ismene, they way you're written this makes it sound like you are basing your claim off of a single experience, is this so? In any case, your claims of receptor saturation at that level seems totally wonky (i.e. baseless speculation on your part that goes against a good deal of what I've read). Psychedelics producing a high level of acute tolerance would be the best explanation for this phenomenon, I would think.

Anyway, to the OP, I think 6-8 hours is a bit too long to wait to redose, you might be able to extend the peak a bit when staggering your dosing, but I wouldn't count on it to start a whole new trip up at such a late point. I think the best course would be to have just one trip and time it well, but maybe there'd be enough effect to make it worth while.

 

[Fieldy]

Redosing does work, add some gunja into the mix and you will get more of the trip feeling back! just add a gravity bong or 2 into the mix or even better nos!

 

[Ismene]

Ismene, they way you're written this makes it sound like you are basing your claim off of a single experience, is this so?

No, I've tried it twice and it didn't work on either occasion.

In any case, your claims of receptor saturation at that level seems totally wonky (i.e. baseless speculation on your part that goes against a good deal of what I've read).

Could you link me to this reading? I've been taking LSD quite a long time and I've rarely heard of re-dosing after 7 hours being successful. As I've already said, if you could go back to the peak after 7 hours we'd all be re-dosing wouldn't we. I've yet to hear a guide on LSD say "Re-dose after 7 hours". I've heard the occasional kid say it works "if you smoke a load of dope.."

Anyway, to the OP, I think 6-8 hours is a bit too long to wait to redose

Can you explain why? That's what the thread is about. You didn't much care for my baseless speculation so why not give me your baseless speculation why you believe that "6-8 hours is too long.."?

 

[Ismene]

I can't explain what happened to you Ismene, but I know from experience that redosing several hours later CAN definitely create a renewed sensation, but with a somewhat attenuated impact. .

So why is there an attenuated impact if the receptors are still fine and open?

And tell me how much of a dose you need the second time? The same dose? Or twice as much? Three times as much? You arn't seriously suggesting taking the same dose after 7 hours will have you tripping balls like the first time are you?

And seeing as you think syrian rue gives you a "trip" I'd question whether what you'd call a "renewed sensation" is what most people would call a trip.

I suppose I did not take enough to "fully saturate all receptors" the first time.

So why is the second dose give you an "attenuated impact"? If it's hitting fresh receptors for the first time you should be tripping balls.

not as strong as the first time but definitely not "zero" effect as Ismene asserts

We'll have to agree to disagree. If I could get anything remotely resembling a trip from dropping another couple of blotters 7 hours later trust me, I'd be doing it. And so would everyone else who takes LSD. We don't do it because it's a waste of LSD. Can you offer any other reason why redosing after 7 hours is so rare?

 

[Survived Abortion]

So why is there an attenuated impact if the receptors are still fine and open?

So why is the second dose give you an "attenuated impact"? If it's hitting fresh receptors for the first time you should be tripping balls.

Because tolerance has lttle to do with receptor occupancy, but more to do with intracellular dynamics. You have to wait for those neurons to homeostatically return to a similar condition to what they were in before you took the drug if you want to achieve a similar intensity of trip.

We don't do it because it's a waste of LSD. Can you offer any other reason why redosing after 7 hours is so rare?

Because people want to get to sleep.

 

[Ismene]

Because tolerance has lttle to do with receptor occupancy, but more to do with intracellular dynamics. You have to wait for those neurons to homeostatically return to a similar condition to what they were in before you took the drug if you want to achieve a similar intensity of trip.

So now you're saying you can't trip again after 7 hours? So what have you been arguing the entire thread?

Because people want to get to sleep.

Nah, it's because it's a waste of LSD. I think there's plenty of people who liked to peak again on acid after 7 hours.

 

[Survived Abortion]

So now you're saying you can't trip again after 7 hours? So what have you been arguing the entire thread?

No. I'm saying you can trip again after 7 hours, easily. You just won't get the same intensity with the same dose. Or, if you want the same intensity, you will have to take a bigger dose. It's as simple as that. You sure do make things unnecessarily convoluted and complicated. (nitpicking)

 

[Ismene]

No. I'm saying you can trip again after 7 hours, easily. You just won't get the same intensity with the same dose. Or, if you want the same intensity, you will have to take a bigger dose.

Have you ever tried doing this? Or do you just have a feeling in your water? I've never met anyone who'se found it "easy". Everyone I've ever met who'se tried it says it doesn't work and is a waste of LSD. We'll have to agree to disagree.

 

[DwayneHoover]

So please give us a scientific reference to this cockamamie theory you keep insisting on of "receptor saturation". You are just making shit up that SOUNDS scientific but really has ZERO basis in research. So you are saying that the LSD molecules stick in the receptors for many many hours?... WHICH ONES??? According to what I have read LSD actually has reactions with quite a wide array of receptors. It would seem that if it totally competitively occupied ALL of them for HOURS AND HOURS that many other things would start to go wrong. Show me links to research evidence that LSD works by "occupying receptors" for many many hours like some sort of glue. Aha, you can't because there isn't any. This is just another stupid theory that you have pulled outa your ass and then strut around proudly as if you are speaking science, when it's merely rank amateur speculative hogwash. Don't ask me "then why this and why that." That's no answer to my question, just evasion and misdirection. Show me the scientific evidence for your baseless guesswork. It's ridiculous, you have no idea what they hell you are bloviating on about, pretending you are some self-proclaimed "expert." Put up or shut up.

 

[TheAppleCore]

(And how about the idea we've heard for ever that LSD is actually gone from the body after a very short period of time, that it does its thing by initially triggering a cascade of reactions, but its actually gone from the body rather quickly.)

Is this factually known? I highly doubt it. Smoked DMT has an incredibly profound effect on consciousness, and presumably neurological function, for the duration that it's up in your brain and bound to your 5HT2A receptors, but once it's metabolized you're rrrright back to baseline -- you just fall from hyperspace back to earth like a ton of bricks.

 

[DwayneHoover]

Is this factually known? I highly doubt it.

Well I wasn't sure but now I've found the following, and have edited my post to get rid of the remark.

http://www.uatests.com/drug-information/lsd.html
"Contrary to early reports and common belief, LSD effects do not last longer than the amount of time significant levels of the drug are present in the blood. Aghajanian and Bing (1964) found LSD had an elimination half-life of only 175 minutes. However, using more accurate techniques, Papac and Foltz (1990) reported that 1 µg/kg oral LSD given to a single male volunteer had an apparent plasma half-life of 5.1 hours, with a peak plasma concentration of 5 ng/mL at 3 hours post-dose."

 

[Ismene]

So please give us a scientific reference to this cockamamie theory you keep insisting on of "receptor saturation".

For pitys sake calm down Dwayne. Don't take things so personally.

It looks like you're trying to shift the argument from "Can you trip again on LSD after 7 hours" to "How does LSD work in the brain". Am I right? Is that because you know you've lost the first argument? Why not start another thread called "How does LSD work in the brain" instead?

I shouldn't bother answering this but I'll indulge you because I like you. Obviously, everyone with even a cursory knowledge of LSD knows that recent research with the benefits of MRI and brain scans simply hasn't been done. No-one knows. That's the simple answer. Receptor saturation is merely a suggestion - as your bullshit theory about "LSD being gone quickly" showed you, no-one really knows how LSD works in the brain.

Now, lets get back to the thread topic again can we? However it works, you can't take LSD 7 hours after you last took it and expect to trip like the first time. Are you saying that you can? I know you mentioned something about a "renewed sensation". Were you talking about an LSD trip there or did someone put their finger up your bottom at the same time? When I take precious, hard to find LSD I want to TRIP from it. I don't want a "renewed sensation". Y'follow?

 

[Swimmingdancer]

It is a well-known scientific fact that LSD rapidly produces a strong tolerance. It's just not as simple as some posters theorized that it is "due to all the receptors being blocked", and it does not mean that a normal dose creates a saturation over which level no additional effects can be felt. It's a little more complex than that. But that does not mean that you can take acid twice in a row and have the same effects. The tolerance to LSD usually lasts for about a week. Haven't you ever taken LSD once and then taken the same dose several days later and wondered why it didn't produce anywhere near the effects? If you take a hit and then take another, say, 6-10hrs later, the second dose will have very little, if any, effects. If you take 2 hits, say, 2 hrs apart you may still experience higher effects than if you only took 1 hit.

You can look up drug tolerance on Wikipedia or elsewhere.

Tolerance builds up rapidly with LSD. Using the same amount the next day gives a extremely diminished effect. This wears off gradually after about a week or so. In the meantime, you would need to take a much higher dose to get the intense effect you are looking for. This is not advisable, given the fact that LSD can be unpredictable and you might take too much, plus potential for side effects would be increased.

There is also some cross-tolerance with other psychedelics drugs, including magic mushrooms and DMT, meaning that you would also need larger quantities of these drugs in order to produce the effects you would get if you hadn't taken any other drugs in weeks. The cross-tolerance to other psychedelic drugs can reportedly last from several hours to 10 days. Again, it is inadvisable to take larger amounts than normal of the DMT or mushrooms etc, as you can't predict what will happen, and occasionally people even find that the drugs actually intensify each other's effects rather than the reverse. There is no cross-tolerance between psychedelics and marijuana.

Personally, I wouldn't take anything else while on LSD. I don't like the unpredictability. I would probably just take 2 hits of the LSD at once; it can last for a surprisingly long amount of time.

I guess the original poster has already left for his/her camping trip, but this info could still be useful to others.

 

[Ismene]

Is this factually known? I highly doubt it. Smoked DMT has an incredibly profound effect on consciousness, and presumably neurological function, for the duration that it's up in your brain and bound to your 5HT2A receptors, but once it's metabolized you're rrrright back to baseline -- you just fall from hyperspace back to earth like a ton of bricks.

Be interesting to see the difference in how the receptors handle smoked DMT as opposed to oral DMT. Do you think that with oral DMT the receptors are locking into a DMT molecule, then releasing it, then being occupied again by another one? While with smoked DMT are they just locking into one and releasing it and then unable to find another one because the MAO's have destroyed it all?

I wonder how long a single DMT molecule can produce effects at a receptor for? Interesting subject!

 

[Ismene]

If you take a hit and then take another, say, 6-10hrs later, the second dose will have very little, if any, effects.

Amen.

Personally, I wouldn't take anything else while on LSD. I don't like the unpredictability. I would probably just take 2 hits of the LSD at once; it can last for a surprisingly long amount of time.


MDMA can be a nice mix with LSD, not too unpredictable and adds a really pleasant effect.

 

[Thorns Have Roses]

Too noddy to look things up at the moment, and I may have not said everything entirely accurately. Izzy, my main point is that I think receptor down regulation is what is going on here, not saturation (given the half-life of the drug, saturation would have to occur at very low levels indeed for your scenario to be the case).

 

[Ismene]

I'm totally open to suggestions as to how LSD works in the brain