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The Cigarette Thread

Roxon accuses tobacco giant of trick in packaging fight

Roxon accuses tobacco giant of trick in packaging fight

THE Gillard government is accusing tobacco giant Philip Morris of engaging in corporate restructuring as a ''trick'' to find new legal avenues to challenge its cigarette plain packaging laws.
The government is arguing a challenge by the company under a bilateral trade treaty with Hong Kong should be thrown out because the company's Asian division did not acquire its shareholding in the Australian arm until almost a year after the plain-packaging policy was announced.

Philip Morris Asia, based in Hong Kong, is claiming substantial compensation in its complaint that the laws have an adverse impact on its Australian investment, which was supposed to be protected under the 20-year-old treaty.

But the Attorney-General, Nicola Roxon, said the government's response, filed last night, revealed Philip Morris Australia had engaged in ''corporate restructuring'' to use the treaty to challenge the laws after they had been announced.

The response argues: ''Philip Morris Asia acquired its shares in Philip Morris Australia on February 23, 2011, both in the full knowledge that the decision had been announced by the Australian government to introduce plain packaging, and also in circumstances where various other members of the Philip Morris group had repeatedly made clear their objections … [which] had not been accepted by the government.''

The government announced it would introduce plain packaging in April 2010.
It argues to the United Nations tribunal hearing the case that the treaty does not mean existing disputes can be ''repackaged'' as claims under the treaty ''many months after the relevant government measure has been announced''. It also contends that even under the treaty, it is able to make laws to protect ''public health''.

Alongside its complaint under international trade law, Philip Morris this week joined three other tobacco companies in a High Court action against the laws, which were passed last month.
Philip Morris, which has a 37 per cent market share in Australia, said the law effectively acquired its ''valuable brands and intellectual property'' without compensation. ''Plain packaging violates the Australian constitution because the government is seeking to acquire our property without paying compensation,'' a spokesman said this week.

The world-first legislation will from next December strip all branding from cigarette packs and force them to be drab green, with graphic health warnings. Tobacco companies are fighting the laws through every possible means because they are regarded as an international test case.
British American Tobacco and Imperial Tobacco have also filed High Court proceedings.

Ms Roxon said: ''Let there be no mistake: Big Tobacco is fighting the government for one very simple reason - because it knows, as we do, that plain packaging will work.''
The government has appointed the Canadian professor Don McRae as its representative on the tribunal that will hear the case, with another appointment to be made by the company and one by the tribunal itself. The three arbitrators will decide how long the case takes, but it could be years.​

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Roxon accuses - HA!


The bitch that took campaign and direct donations from BIG TOBACCO and BIG ALCOHOL ... The hypocrisy and corruption in the government is absurd and will ONLY increase as the Australian public accepts more and more.. I even have people justifying this shit to me like "HEY MATE AT LEAST WE ARE NOT NORTH KOREA!!! ITS JUST LOW LEVEL CORRUPTION" - riiiiiiiiight... fucks sake.
 
Tobacco, you foul temptress. I've been smoking 4-5 a day again after quitting at the start of the year with the aid of champix. It's getting to the point where I'm thinking of buying a pouch because maybe I just really like smoking, and I'm wasting coin on tailors; I've been telling myself that "this will be the last pack" for about 10 packets. lol.

For health/genetic reasons I want to stop, and while I haven't gone over 4-5 a day (including spin) it's either stop now (4-5 a day can't give me too many WD's can it? I've been telling myself that it's merely a psychological addiction at the moment), or buy a pouch and stop wasting my money, with the hope of not increasing my intake (yeah right).

On the point of the packaging, I really couldn't give a fuck about it - Jake's scatporn joke was appropriate, lol. I do think that while the ugly pictures/warnings may deter some new smokers and make some current smokers reassess their habit, it will never be that effective.

The simple fact that smoking is something you're not meant to do turned me onto it as a teen and I imagine there will always be adolescents that have the same attitude. Add to this the power of a nicotine addiction and we've got the recipe for the continuation of smoking tobacco.
 
yagecero said:
Tobacco, you foul temptress. I've been smoking 4-5 a day again after quitting at the start of the year with the aid of champix. It's getting to the point where I'm thinking of buying a pouch because maybe I just really like smoking, and I'm wasting coin on tailors; I've been telling myself that "this will be the last pack" for about 10 packets. lol.

For health/genetic reasons I want to stop, and while I haven't gone over 4-5 a day (including spin) it's either stop now (4-5 a day can't give me too many WD's can it? I've been telling myself that it's merely a psychological addiction at the moment), or buy a pouch and stop wasting my money, with the hope of not increasing my intake (yeah right).

On the point of the packaging, I really couldn't give a fuck about it - Jake's scatporn joke was appropriate, lol. I do think that while the ugly pictures/warnings may deter some new smokers and make some current smokers reassess their habit, it will never be that effective.

The simple fact that smoking is something you're not meant to do turned me onto it as a teen and I imagine there will always be adolescents that have the same attitude. Add to this the power of a nicotine addiction and we've got the recipe for the continuation of smoking tobacco.
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At least it's only a few more days and then you can get another round of Champix on the PBS if it gets that bad. Good luck though, smoking for a few days shouldn't throw you out too bad. :)
 
drug_mentor said:
I doubt I will ever forget the first time I smoked one of those, I was SO hot but my sweat felt SO cold on my skin, head didn't stop spinning for a good 10 minutes haha, strong fucking smokes!
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They do give mad headspins! I remember little 14 year old me puffing away on my first Camel like a joint and having to sit down after almost falling over. Good times.
 
I have posters in my room saying "using GHB is never safe" with images of hospitals and unconscious people on them... yet i consume GHB on a fairly regular basis. If that doesn't affect my decision in taking G, then how on earth could any health warning in regards to cigarettes alter my decision to smoke..

Seriously, if people wanna smoke or take drugs they are going to do it no matter the consequence. The majority of people are shortsighted and only care about that moment, then and there (ie the nicotine craving), and tend to not worry about what will happen later to their health.

Never in my life have I turned down a cigarette or drug because of the concern for my health. It's like your mate offering you a beer on the weekend and you saying "nah man i don't want to ruin my liver 30 years down the track..". This kinda shit just doesn't happen..
 
Busty St Clare said:
Have you or any of your mates blown out at an event? You only have to see one family member die from lung cancer to change your mind.
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Who says? I saw my grandma die from cancer due to smoking and I still smoke, if you don't know thats the likely outcome of your smoking to begin with your a fucking dipshit. I don't know why you like to make sweeping generalisations so often but I know plenty of smokers with relatives who died from smoking related illness.
 
I'd have to agree with d_m. Sure, everyone knows about the risks, and experiencing them second hand, in real life, may deter some, but some people simply don't give a fuck and like smoking enough to take the risk. If you're going to live your life in fear of all that could happen, you'd be miserable. If you're going to abstain from doing certain things because of the risks involved, that's fine, but it doesn't mean everyone else will abstain because of the same risks.
 
For the same reason many of us continue to use substances that we have either seen people be hurt by or know that it can hurt people. I guess on the one hand, many of us think that because we take some care or have some knowledge that most don't these things won't happen to us. On the other, perhaps on some level we rationalize that for whatever reason, these things happen to other people and not us.

Anyway, what I guess I'm trying to get at is that I'm not going to stop smoking despite several family members who are deceased due to, or have suffered from, cancer. I enjoy smoking cigarettes, just like I enjoy other activities that are considered risky and I don't plan on stopping because of the risk. If I have to stop for health reasons later on, perhaps I will.
 
NEWS : New nicotine patches on subsidised medicine list

NEWS : New nicotine patches on subsidised medicine list

THE federal government's crusade against smoking will continue into the new year with more nicotine-replacement drugs listed for subsidy on the Pharmaceutical Benefits Scheme.
From Sunday, two new lower-strength nicotine patches, of 14 and 7 milligrams, will be part-funded by the government. Higher-strength patches are already listed on the scheme, the register of medicines subsidised by the government to make them affordable for patients.

A drug to combat blood clotting in hip and knee replacement patients, a treatment for blood pressure in the arteries of the lungs, and a higher strength of a common HIV treatment drug will also being added to the scheme.

The Health Minister, Tanya Plibersek, said the new, lower-strength patches would allow clinicians to tail off a patient's nicotine intake slowly.
"The listing of nicotine patches on the PBS has cut the price of patches down to just $5.80 a month for concessional patients or $35.40 a month for general patients,'' Ms Plibersek said.
The new drug listings will be revenue-neutral, a spokesman for the minister said, but overall the scheme will account for nearly $10 billion of revenue in the 2011-12 budget year.
In February the government refused to add to the scheme a number of drugs, contrary to the recommendations of its independent expert panel, the Pharmaceuticals Benefits Advisory Committee.
The deferrals, which were made due to ''fiscal circumstances'', were reversed this month and the government has agreed to abide by the recommendations of the committee for at least a year, but only where they pertain to drugs costing under $10 million a year.

The opposition health spokesman, Peter Dutton, challenged the Health Minister to guarantee all recommended drugs would be listed on the scheme.
''The issue is not what the Gillard government lists, but what it withholds,'' he said.

''I can't understand why the government makes people suffer unnecessarily when the cost efficiency of listing a medicine has been independently verified.''
The cost of all government-subsidised drugs will rise on Sunday, in line with rises in the consumer price index.
At present the co-payment consumers make to subsidised medicines is $34.20, which will rise to $35.40. Pensioners and people on forms of welfare pay a concessional rate that will increase from $5.60 to $5.80.

The higher strength nicotine patches are projected to cost $40 million over four years, and since their listing in February, more than 125,000 people have bought them, at a cost to the public purse of $8.9 million.

The subsidy of nicotine patches comes after a year of all-out war between the government and the tobacco industry following the introduction of plain packaging legislation.
Ms Plibersek's predecessor, Nicola Roxon, was accused of presiding over a nanny state after the legislation, which bans all company logos and requires all smoking products to be in regulation olive-green packaging, was passed in November.
An alliance of tobacco companies filed a High Court challenge to the law. The case is scheduled for a three-day hearing in April.​

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Just because you didn't know, it doesn't mean a majority of people don't. I think knowing of something, and experiencing it second hand, witnessing it in real life, actually having it affect you are 2 entirely different things, yes, but if you don't know that smoking causes cancer and that cancer is painful then you're pretty fucking ignorant and I suggest picking up a book. You can't find something like that to be true. Everything is always changing, yes, and your views on things are going to change, for lots of different reasons, it's part of living and growing. With new experience comes new thoughts, new perspectives, etc. CAN witnessing someone close to you die from cancer change your views? Yes. Is it going to certainly change the view of every single person to experience it? No.
Look, I know your still touchy about your grandmother and still hurt and whatnot but it doesn't excuse your stupidity. This is supposed to be a discussion about smoking and cigarettes, and although this is a HR board there's no point for people to start flaming over this shit. Yes, smoking can cause cancer. Yes, cancer is painful. Can the sun cause cancer? Yes. Does your microwave give off radiation? Yes. There's no harm reduction to be had as there's no method to stop yourself from getting cancer from smoking other than abstaining, so can we just drop the whole fucking discussion.
If you're against smoking, don't post in the fucking cigarette thread. Simple.
 
Ok, i deleted my posts. I agree with Busty, you and mr b with Dm, that's fine. I'll keep my thoughts on the drug to myself.

continue on your way discussing the drug.

I will continue to post in this thread tho, yes there is some HR stuff available for tobacco as with most other drugs.

PS) It was DM's gran that died from cancer, not mine.
 
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Anecdotal evidence doesn't work either way. I have a good friend whose father died a year or two ago from smoking-related lung cancer - my friend started smoking heavily after that. Doesn't change the facts... There will always be people who smoke a lot with no problems, and people who don't smoke and get lung cancer or COPD. Obviously smoking hugely increases the chances (not to mention of a host of other diseases), but most people don't make very rational decisions regarding their drug use, especially once addicted.
 
Yeah i had a great gran who died at 99 who smoked for most her life and didnt get shit. Luck of the draw i guess.
 
[NZ] Smoking rates run out of puff

[NZ] Smoking rates run out of puff

Smoking rates could fall below 20 per cent this year as thousands of Kiwis are expected to kick the habit.

Quitline's Bruce Bassett said adult smoking rates could fall to the lowest levels since records began. He said 21 per cent of adult New Zealanders smoked and about 9000 people were expected to use Quitline services in January. "It's going to be really busy."

He said more than a fifth of those who used quitting services stayed smoke-free.

Leone Landells chose to stop smoking just before the New Year brought a wave of resolutions and a price rise reaching more than $15 for popular packs of 20.

"I feel so much better," she said. "I didn't realise how unwell I felt as a smoker." Landells, 53, said seeing her close friend's mother suffer from emphysema was the tipping point.

"I saw her go from a woman who got dressed up and put on all the jewellery and all of a sudden she was on an oxygen tank. It's not just about getting cancer. You could have a very poor quality of life for the next 20 years."


Landells uses nicotine gum to stay on the wagon. But her partner, Chris Claydon, a former male nurse, said he'd like to keep smoking.

"I watched my grandfather die from cigarette smoking," he said. "I watched my father die from cigarette smoking. I think about that, but I just have to accept that if I live long enough, that should kill me." He said the price rise of his preferred cigarette brand to more than $15 a pack from today wouldn't put him off. "People give up smoking now because it's not socially acceptable. The only thing the price rise does is piss me off."

Landells said that during the four years she smoked she aged rapidly. She said young women who smoked would quit if they knew how quickly the habit could age them.

Claydon, 55, said the only warnings young men would heed were those linking smoking to impotence.

Bassett said proposals such as plain cigarette packaging should also speed the decline of smoking. Australia planned to implement these laws next December. "I'm sure New Zealand will watch that with a lot of interest to see when and if we take that step."​

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