-The- Heroin & Opioid Mega Discussion Thread (Volumes 1+2 Merged)

[MotownBoi]

The end or just the beggining?

I started messing around with pills when I moved from the suburbs of Metro Detroit to Nashville, TN. I found a job doing flooring for a large company in town and they stuck me with a partner that had similar interests to my own. We liked the same music, activities, and drugs. First I just sampled the different weed the area had to offer, as it is way cheaper down there as opposed to where I grew up. After a while, I started buying Loratab's, Percocet's, Valium, and Xanax. That was all fine and dandy for about two years until I had a break up with the girl I originally moved down there with. I found myself alone in a still fairly new town with no friends other than my reclusive work partner. At first I tried joining a local gym to have a hobby, somewhere to go, somewhere to possibly meet people. I was meeting girls online three a week and soon hooked up with this girl that introduced me to Oxycontin. At first, it didn't seem much different that the Loratabs, just a lil' bit stronger. That is until the withdrawal's started. I lost my own home I was renting, stopped going to the gym, and promptly started hustling with this dealer on the West Side. He was a fuck up, dating his wife's sister, snorting O.C.'s right in front of his kids, ages 9 and 7 at the time. But I didn't care as long as I got a line every now and again. Soon though, I began to see that I was surrounded by opportunist's, people who only cared about feeding their habit's and nothing about life. So, I jumped on a bus in the winter of '10 and headed back to Detroit to clean my act up.
It's been almost two years of being on Suboxone and no major relapses. However my new Dr. (as I have recently moved out to Pontiac, MI.) has informed me that I was never supposed to take this stuff longer than say 6 months. I was perfectly happy taking 8 mg of Suboxone a day, no cravings for anything else, morphine, oxy, heroin, and now I'm backed into a corner. The Dr. is making me come off the Suboxone and it has had a horrible ripple effect. I have now started using heroin on a weekly basis. Every Friday I head to the D and hookup with this hustler I know down there and score a few packs for the weekend. It's made me pay a toll with my conscience. Since returning to Metro Detroit I have a wonderful Fiance' and her three kids to take care of. They call me "Daddy" and I do my best to be a good one. But the stress of quitting on top of my Fiance being epileptic, and having an autistic son, has I fear put too much on me. I don't know if I'm doing the dope because I don't want to stop the Suboxone, or to deal with the stress of being the sole income for a family of five, but I do know that I need to make some choices and soon. Giving up opiates is not something I want, I have a twisted spine and lot's of pain from years of making a living as a contractor. I also have hopes and dreams for the future though. I don't want to live in the ghetto forever. What to do, what to do...

 

[spoodle]

Thank you guys so much for the support here. Your time and effort in replying to my post of desperation means a lot to me.

First off,
Thank you for talking me out of any potential self-destructive toe amputations. Clearly I have more issues than addiction, and I scare myself with thoughts like that.

Effie, you understand me well enough to give me good advice. To answer your questions,

do you have any sort of support structure?

Yes, after the last OD in early January, I moved across the country back with my parents who are very supportive. Overall, it is a better place for me right now, even if its not my ideal place nearing 30years old. I continuously suck up my pride on the fact that I've compromised personal independence. I traded it for an overall healthier mental state as I'm a lot closer to the love and support of my family. None of my family members have come close to touching the level of addiction. I continuously baffle and frustrate them at times, but they can be very understanding in spite of this. I also see a psychiatrist for medication to treat depression and anxiety. I hesitate to reveal my serious addiction issues to him in fear him cutting me off the clonazepam, as he already lowered my dose - probably a good thing even though the thought of completely doing away with is petrifying.

Why was it that Suboxone and methadone didn't work for you?

In the past I couldn't stay away from heroin at all taking suboxone. I succeeded from staying away from heroin on methadone until a girl I met at the clinic suggested we go score heroin together and I caved and did it, then ended up failing urinalysis tests and put on administrative taper, leading me to both my first "bottom" and first stint in inpatient rehab.

Methadone treatment I'd prefer between the two, but the thing keeping me away from it is the inconvenience of going to the methadone clinic every day. If I could get a doctor's trust to write me scripts for methadone maintenance with monthly visits instead of daily visits to a clinic, I'd jump on that opportunity in a heartbeat... I just don't know how to present myself and my situation properly to achieve that. Suboxone I could easily go on that and forgo daily clinic visits, but buprenorphine doesn't kill my cravings nearly as effectively as methadone. I don't trust myself enough to not allow the same thing to happen again if I go to a methadone clinic daily, inevitably hooking up with another shady character there. That is why I'd opt for a monthly methadone prescription.

Are there any other factors in your life that are keeping you tied to heroin? Social situation, psychological issues etc.. is there anything that could be tackled from a different angle, to help address any underlying factors in your addiction and make your life a little easier?

Indeed. Self-pity, underachievement, low self-esteem, lack of self-confidence, social awkwardness, pessimism, not feeling a part of in spite of being a part of, not utilizing tools that help often enough, lack of fulfillment, and seemingly endless character defects. I'm continuously full of excuses to happily go through the motions of life's requirements in full. I often think I know exactly what I need to do with myself, but actually doing it I struggle with. Finally, attention deficit disorder.

Having chronic pain as well must make things a lot harder. Have you seen a pain specialist?

No, I haven't. I recently saw my primary care physician for the chronic back pain when the pain reached an acute 7 on a scale of 1-10. It rarely exceeds a 6, often a 4 dull ache, typically more like a persisting irritation rather than extreme acute pain. I do not believe doctors can be convinced it is worth treating with any type of chronic pain medication my addict brain thinks I need. I was treated with an NSAID perscription, 1 week of methocarbamol, and a referral to physical therapy. The methocarbamol helped a lot and I need to go back to possibly get a refill for it, but I've yet to attend physical therapy (I suppose I hesitate on PT, because I typically prefer to seek instant gratification of medicine). I actually did ask during a previous visit for a prescription to gabapentin for legitimate acute neuropathic pain of herpes (yes the story just gets worse), as I had taken it twice "off the street" and found it greatly effective. His rebuttal to that suggestion was he reserves that one for sufferers of chronic pain which I allegedly don't have.

No, methamphetamine and most all stimulants I do not like one bit. That is why I no longer take Adderall for ADD.

Professional help is the best solution at this point.
I'm glad I asked here, because it is helping me sort things out in my head. Thanks again! I may provide future updates. There are more people who also need attention as well...


Deja vu.

 

[spoodle]

MotownBoi,

The ultimate decision of what path we'll go down is in our own hands. As general as that sounds, we make our beds to lay in. Shit, I don't know what I'm tryin to say, man...

You obviously know that you shouldn't be slammin packs and stuff. It's surely tied to tapering off the sub. So you're wanting to stay on subs and slam between doses? Did you pee hot and that's why the doc wants you off it/his hands??

Shit man, I can't say I wouldn't stick a needle in my arm if I had dope put infront of me. At the same time, the thought of doing so makes me sick in the stomach. It hurts so good but the result is so bad... hittin the street is the worst thing you can do for yourself, IMO. I'm trying to stick with scripts so I always know exactly what the dose is. I know what I can and can't handle to avoid death, but when it comes as a powder from a random hookup, you can never be too certain especially with a new source in the heat of desperation...

 

[paranoid android]

Methadone is a horrible option. especially if your like me and LOVE methadone
suboxone is an improvement to living on the needle. but its trading one dependency for another
its a battle that has to be fought at one point though. might as well get off.

i know this isnt a good thing. but i have found the <IF YOU KNOW WHAT YOUR FUCKING DOING> the easyiest most painless when to get through acute with drawls is, Meth, Ketamine, Imodium, plenty of gaterade and benzoes if u need them. and Seroquil to sleep at night.

Meth is digusting i am not a recreational user. but for me and alot of other people i have suggested this too it almost completely kills the wd's. combine that with the other substance i mentioned <in low doses> and never the k too soon before the serequil and if your taking benzoes dont take the seroquil. Also clonidine or however u spell it.

everything besides day 3 will be painless. and DONT Get tweaked just do enough to get out of bed and feel better.

thats how i got clean. and my friend who had amuch more serious habit <slammed 7 bags a day>. got off.

I am going to have to say that i would strongly advise that noone use this combo to withdraw from opiates. I have never heard of anyone using methamphetamine to relive acute WD and i know from experience that dextroamphetamine in late stage WD (around the 6-7 day mark) can cause all sorts of problems like panic attacks even when using benzos, feeling much more depressed even when the amphetamine is still working and since it suppresses your appetite that's another thing that is the last thing you need during opiate WD. There are few things more unpleasant then being up staring at the walls all night in opiate withdrawal.

Lopermide is a big help and for me my usual tide me over combo consists of benzos and something like seroquel as well. Clonidine helps with the hot/cold flashes, rushes of blood presure and with the anxiety abit as well. It helps me a good bit but only when combined with other meds. You have to be very careful with clonidine though as it is a blood pressure medication and it interacts with alot of drugs some of them such as seroquel, benzos and opiates are used for withdrawal. So i would strongly advise getting that under the supervision of a doctor. Anything to keep me calm really helps me during opiate withdrawal. Ketamine could help relax you or it could cause your mind to go into all sorts of nasty places so ya never know . Also why do you say methadone is a horrible drug? If getting your prescribed dose everyday made you feel good then what's so bad about that/ It's far better then having to go out and score heroin or whatever and it takes away the need to shoot up as well.

It's also important to remember that NOONE on here is a doctor.

 

[spoodle]

I am going to have to say that i would strongly advise that noone use this combo to withdraw from opiates. I have never heard of anyone using methamphetamine to relive acute WD and i know from experience that dextroamphetamine in late stage WD (around the 6-7 day mark) can cause all sorts of problems like panic attacks even when using benzos, feeling much more depressed even when the amphetamine is still working and since it suppresses your appetite that's another thing that is the last thing you need during opiate WD. There are few things more unpleasant then being up staring at the walls all night in opiate withdrawal.

Lopermide is a big help and for me my usual tide me over combo consists of benzos and something like seroquel as well. Clonidine helps with the hot/cold flashes, rushes of blood presure and with the anxiety abit as well. It helps me a good bit but only when combined with other meds. You have to be very careful with clonidine though as it is a blood pressure medication and it interacts with alot of drugs some of them such as seroquel, benzos and opiates are used for withdrawal. So i would strongly advise getting that under the supervision of a doctor. Anything to keep me calm really helps me during opiate withdrawal. Ketamine could help relax you or it could cause your mind to go into all sorts of nasty places so ya never know . Also why do you say methadone is a horrible drug? If getting your prescribed dose everyday made you feel good then what's so bad about that/ It's far better then having to go out and score heroin or whatever and it takes away the need to shoot up as well.

It's also important to remember that NOONE on here is a doctor.

Yes the part about up staring at the walls in W/D reminds me of years ago, someone came to my apartment with crack to smoke and I was pissed off, because he'd bought crack instead of dope to share (relieve my sickness for the day). I smoked the crack and sure I got a strong buzz, but it sucked and didn't help the pain one bit.

Methadone sucks because where I live for the average citizen with opiate addiction, the government restricts its access to clinics where you have to show up during one of two strict ~30-minute time-windows to receive it. I don't have a driver's license right now, and no guaranteed helpful daily transportation to go get it each day, either. Plus, they also pee-test you every week. It is so inconvenient to wake up and get there every morning, just past the crack of dawn, making sure you're bladder is full, ready to possibly provide for a urinalysis before you're allowed to receive your daily dose. Holding in your pee from the time you wake, until the time you get to the clinic window is harsh labor and hard on the bladder. I've accidentally peed myself trying to hold it in the morning before I made it out the door. Thankfully they have a second 30-minute afternoon time window to get the dose, which is inconveniently three hours past noon. You need to have either a job that is exactly 6am-3pm (construction), a second, or third-shift job, or a job that has extremely flexible hours, or no job at all. Miss that daily dose and you are SERIOUSLY dope-sick, writhing in pain by the time you make your way to the clinic the next morning.

To get a monthly doctor's rx for a bottle of pills from the pharmacy, indefinitely long-term methadone maintenance... You need to see a pain-management specialist, and need to have a SERIOUSLY painful body ailment.. I'd love that scenario, but its not something I'm eligible for by any means I've looked into, as I lack a serious enough ailment, so doctors are unwilling to treat my addiction in such a way. The only way I could get it is by going to a clinic.

Dissociates such as ketamine and nitrous oxide can relieve the pain at high enough continuous levels. Ketamine is sometimes used in some version of the "Ultra-Rapid Detox" method as an anesthesia agent, in combination with other meds which put you out while naloxone flushes out your receptors which are then filled by naltrexone. I have eased the pain of withdraw before with two days back-to-back ~12-hour (Rx grade) nitrous oxide tank binges through the worst two days while coming while off heroin cold-turkey. N2O in quantity like that is kinda rare for an addict to have the means and connections to use for that purpose, relieving withdraw pain. The nitrous comedown of such mammoth binges, however unpleasant, help sleep come easily. Continuous N2O balloons cannot be good for your brain for that kind of duration (entire days by yourself), even medical grade...

I have also been given Clonidine to level high-blood pressure amid a medical cold-turkey. Loperamide is a godsend for diarrhea throughout W/D and OTC. For sleep I've either used or been given Benadryl (diphenhydramine), Seroquel, Trazedone, melatonin, Restoril (temazepam) and other benzos... I prefer benzos firstly, Benadryl second. Except for the benzos, the rest can rarely be mixed with either of the others without a restless weakness dizziness period occurring before succumbing to the non-refreshing sleep.

I've been through W/D cold turkey and medically every which way, more times than I can count over the past decade. I'm going on maintenance in the next week. It'll probably be suboxone film, as much as I'd rather be on subutex or methadone. My current situation with no driver's license leaves me no other option.

 

[OGstickyswisher]

Some of this post may be non-entertaining, disorganized or too long for you, but I work my way to a question I'd like to ask to recovering, or recovered heroin addicts more in particular those of you with a developed habit for the process of using IV as well.
If you'd like to just read the question scroll down to the bold

I wonder how many people try heroin more than a few times and don't regret it.

I wonder if the notion of a semi-regular and happy/successful heroin user is just a myth. Or do they exist, and we just don't hear about them because the trainwrecks are more visible?

At one point in time I would have felt confident enough to state that, "yes I am a semi-regular, happy and successful user of heroin"

That's back when I strictly insufflated. Time to me is irrelevant though, and these days I couldn't begin to truthfully even start aforementioned statement.
I have been using heroin for a little over 3 years now. For the first 2 and a 1/2 years it was no sort of a problem, I had a rather in-frequent habit going. I would buy half a gram or so once a month (or a few weeks after last use) at the most. That half gram could last me a while, or deplete quickly it didn't matter. I would snort it up once it was gone that was it, the crave for more was bare minimum and it was nothing that bothered me and I wouldn't use anymore for a few weeks.
This lasted for about two and a half years, there were periods where I wouldn't use for 2, 3 months even. Towards the end of those 2.5 years though, once my use started increasing I should have taken that as a huge sign to slow down or stop but during the time I hardly even realized how much my use went up.

There was a small group of friends I was apart of and we all tried heroin together for the first time a few years back. One dropped the habit eventually, a few started IVing very shortly after our first experiences, some are dead, and the rest continued snorting eventually developing a needle habit.

One night after having went out to cop some dope with a close friend from that small group; I railed a small amount sitting outside his house next to the fire. This was good dope. He had a fresh pack of needles, and by this time he had been shooting since the day we first tried it together; so I told him "hey... I want to see what it's like, I want you to shoot me up. Would you do that?" With a few explicit warnings from my dear friend, he agreed to show me what it was like. That was the best and worst night to happen. Eventually heading inside to relish in my heavy nodding. I wake up to the next days sunrise greeting me, heading home with my newest equipment, a 31gauge insulin needle. The day after my first shot, I loaded the rest of my dope in, practicing my newly learned technique after about 30min of missing I was finally in. To this day I can still see the beautiful velvet red flashback in the barrel of my own first successful shot, these images are forever burned into my mind. After that, no use for a couple of weeks.
Before I knew it at the start of each week I'd find myself buying enough dope to sell, and profit, to keep my new habit from costing me money.

The way I used my heroin is much un-like most others. IV'ing every day, but the dose would be mild; to the point where I would have euphoria, more than pleasant mood, and if I lay down and close my eyes I could nod out, but not strong enough to where I could still function 100% in my every day life. Then on weekends, or any other down time I would load up a strong shot to push me off the edge and into heroins sweet death grip.

So for the last 6 months I've had a well developed addiction; which I have recently stopped with the help of buprenorphine to ease my WD pains. Currently I am opiate-free (bupe. included) and this week will be my 4th week clean.
My problem lies elsewhere. I feel it is almost impossible to describe to someone the amount of psychological addiction I have.
The only reason I am still clean writing this post is because my license is suspended, and thankfully I am strong enough to not let a substance risk something important to me(I must drive in my daily life). Though I'm quite close to saying fuck it and go grab a couple grams; and one thing you should know I live 2 hours away from my sources - I've kept it this way for a reason. I'm a good driver and never get pulled over, so I feel there is virtually zero risk for me to go and get what I want; but I'm trying to stick to it anyways for the better of both situations.

I know as soon as I get my license re-enstated, or till I can work out a way to get some dope; I'm absolutely going to. This to me is inevitable. The psychological grip this has on me is far too great. When I am sober in life I don't feel right, I'm not comfortable in my body you could say, not some kind of self-esteem issue but literally am uncomfortable in my own skin, and in my own head (this partly dealing with my many medical problems/pains). Then when I'm high I feel well off, normal, comfortable again; so comfortable that I realize the nasty habit I have and want nothing more then to never have this substance again; I just want to feel alright.

Coming off of my 6 month habit there was much debate to whether I should load up too much and take the permanent plunge so I would never have to deal with this, but my ultimate consensus is that this is simply not an option in any way.

If you could look inside of my mind and see physical manifestations of my thoughts, you would see a large chunk of heroin sitting there, with no intentions of going anywhere. Every waking day at some point or another, images of seeing the blood flashback cloud my head and the thought of loading up a hit consumes my mind. Some times I can shake it, other times I can't.

To all ex-heroin users who have been clean for upwards of a year or more. If you've had a psychological addiction, what helped you over come this? Instead of heroin, what did you do to fill the gap? I don't mean other substances but activities or replacement thoughts.

It's something I don't want in my life but is too great to me.
I'm sorry for this probably disorganized, long, boring, drawn out post that you thought never had a point. But my brain is quite disorganized itself right now.

All I want is to be content.

Thanks

 

[michael jewell]

I miss the good ol dayz when a perc 5 would do the trick,I now have to do at least 10 bags of dope to catch a buzz or 2 80 oxys,this sux....

 

[tackyspiral]

i have struggled with iv opiates for a while i recently came off two years of suboxone which included days that i didnt take it and shot up h instead and it was the hardest thing i ever had to go through recently i went and bought h twice and it lasted me about two days both times so 4 days total enough that i have fresh tracks and have had to stay in long sleeves now all i can think about is doing it again

 

[alienik555]

Oh my God such a wonderfull woman, many kisses on cheeks :-* :-* :-*

 

[leojay]

i just wanted to stop by and say, hey! it'll get better... to everyone... i'm back on suboxone, my life has been saved by naloxone again... but i haven't given up, and i wont, and neither will any of you. our will is strong, we got up every day and did it, we can do this...

i just wanted to post something positive in here, i'm doing well, and got a job!

just know when ur at the end of ur rope... make that suboxone dr appointment, at least try and cut back... you only get one life, and the mods actually care about us. they get upset when we don't respond like i'm not going to for the next six months... so, even though we dont respond, we love u, thanks bluelighters!

 

[batmanplaybaseball]

hey i just wanted to say that ive been off suboxone for three months and i would never recommend being on it for more than a week. if you do choose to use suboxone for more than a week than you will have worse withdrawal than you would from heroin... People can dislike me saying that but no one can say its not true. again, three months totally clean here.

 

[oliphill]

Just stop.

I did.

It's never gonna be comfortable.

 

[Carl Landrover]

hey i just wanted to say that ive been off suboxone for three months and i would never recommend being on it for more than a week. if you do choose to use suboxone for more than a week than you will have worse withdrawal than you would from heroin... People can dislike me saying that but no one can say its not true. again, three months totally clean here.

But suboxone is many, many times easier to taper down with.

Anyone in a deep enough addiction is not going to change their life around in a week. Being on sub for longer periods allows for a break between actively using and getting clean. It's during this time that you can start picking up the pieces of your life so that when you're ready you can get clean off everything.

 

[batmanplaybaseball]

thats true, but even if you slowly taper down to a minuscule dose you will have a grueling withdrawal. I know this from personal experience, experience of friends, and the experience of hundreds or even thousands of people's reports on the internet. Its sad but true. I will always advocate people away from maintenance drugs for this reason.

 

[ptrsnake13]

haven't used for a few years and am on methadone. Mental addiction will never leave. The sight of that bubble of blood and the redstream running up the side of my syringe and the whole ritual of shooting up is always with me. If I see a good vein on a strangers arm my mind automatically goes there. I loved it then, now, and always will. That bubble coming up with the beautiful crimson color is like a wet dream or better than the best orgasm I ever had. Sorry to tell you but you may never get over it mentally
ptrsnake13

 

[laCster]

i want some type of opiate right now. damn i have really fucked with how my brain functions but i can't stop

 

[burn out]

thats true, but even if you slowly taper down to a minuscule dose you will have a grueling withdrawal. I know this from personal experience, experience of friends, and the experience of hundreds or even thousands of people's reports on the internet. Its sad but true. I will always advocate people away from maintenance drugs for this reason.

I've read this and I just started on suboxone but I thought I had two weeks, so I am glad I saw this post. Now my question is, I have used suboxone on days 1, 2 and 3 of withdrawal (coming off half a gram of heroin a day) should I take a dose tomorrow or just stop here and wait until I am experiencing painful symptoms before I take any more?

 

[bagochina]

i would say wait until you start to feel sick. stretch it out. it will make it easier in the end.

 

[Carl Landrover]

thats true, but even if you slowly taper down to a minuscule dose you will have a grueling withdrawal. I know this from personal experience, experience of friends, and the experience of hundreds or even thousands of people's reports on the internet. Its sad but true. I will always advocate people away from maintenance drugs for this reason.

I respectfully disagree. I've tapered off of suboxone multiple times. Getting off opiates is never easy, but I think it would have been considerably harder without suboxone. You're not going to change my mind as I'm going off my personal experience and many, many people on the internet who are saying the same thing.

One problem I noticed people often have is that they don't know how to properly taper. They also seem to not understand what constitutes a low dose. I've tapered down to very low doses multiple times and then stretched out the time between doses when I was taking 0.1-0.2mg. I continued working, going to school, etc. and it worked out fine. I never could have tapered down like that with oxy or heroin. I needed a maintenance drug like suboxone.

 

[oliphill]

The process of procrastinating over getting clean and searching and researching that perfect detox method is addictive in itself - I did it for years!