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  • BDD Moderators: Keif’ Richards

Need To Stop Taking Tylenol PM.. Anyone Know A Good Substitute ? Or Better?

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kanyeknievel

kanyeknievel

Bluelighter
Joined
Jul 12, 2010
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535
Hey everyone.
I went to the doctor today and I was going over stuff and he asked if I drank and I said no and I think the last bloodtest he did my Liver had a little iffy to it. Im not sure what damage could be done, since im only 19, almost 20, I never drink. I always smoked weed and didnt drink, soo im guessing it cant be too bad but if i keep taking Tylenol PM to sleep at night because of the Aceptiophen or whatever its called, itll be just as bad as if i was drinking. He asked if I pee frequently and I do actually, I do drink energy drink in the morning and usually get a 44oz lattee with half ice in it everyday cause i love them so im guessing thats why i have to pee a lot, and something with my liver? I always just thought i had a small bladder anyways.

But my point remains the same, he said I should stop taking the Tylenol PM because of the liver damage and problems. I already knew this but never thought of it recently. I never used to take it to sleep, but now i need it ever since I stopped smoking weed 2 years ago i couldnt sleep on my own, then i did OC and Heroin.. never an ADDICT, but i havent yet learned to sleep without drugs.

He said take Beandryll instead, which I would but there is one problem. I take Hydrozyzine already and if i took benadryll with the Hydroxyzine i already take, i would like trip out or something from too much anti-histemine. So I dont want that.

I figure this is the best place to look because there are tons of people on this site just like me that used drugs to help sleep and cant without it, and probably used Tylenol PM. If not someone has to know of something that I can buy that works equally, if not better. Im used to taking 6 maybe 7 or more if i really couldnt sleep, along with i believe 5 mg of melatonin.

Sooo the SHORT VERSION: does anyone know of something besides bendryall that works better, or equal as Tylenol PM that doesn't effect the liver? Can you buy Tylenol PM without the Tylenol??? if so that would be perfect right? Because im 95% sure its the stuff thats in the percs and Aceptiphen that causes liver damage
 
Have you tried out melatonin? That can work wonders.

And you can try taking milk thistle daily. That will help out your liver.
 
Tylenol PM = Tylenol + diphenhydramine.

Benadryl = diphenhydramine.

So if you want the "PM" part without the Tylenol part...then just buy straight diphenhydramine (Benadryl, but its available really cheap as generics basically everywhere).
 
Taking Acetominophen (tylenol) frequently can definitely wreak havok on your liver and your stomach. (NSAIDS in general)
There are plenty of OTC sleep aids that don't have tylenol or ibuprophen in them

Benadryl = Diphenhydramine
Unisom = (usually) Doxylamine succinate [although I think i remember seeing unisom that was diphen instead of doxyl before]
Melatonin is not a direct sedative but can help in setting your body's internal clock to get a more regular sleep pattern
There's a plethora of 'homeopathic' junk

Herbal options include Kava, Valerian, Chamomile, etc can help wth sleep
As mentioned above, milk thistle and also dandelion root can help ya clear out your liver as well; may not repair damage but can help you detox a bit.

definitely take it easy with Tylenol Pm's; just buy a bottle of plain diphenhydramine.
 
Good on you for trying to stop the Tylenol PM, liver damage is not something you wanna mess with. I suffered from acute liver damage a couple months ago cause of bad family history. Makes you feel like a zombie 24/7... makes your face looks like crap too.

Anyway, I have to disagree and say Benadryl would not be the best option. If you were taking 7 tylenols AND melatonin, you should consider switching to sleeping pills and slowly weaning yourself off.

Diphenhydramine (Benadryl) has been shown to build tolerance against its sedation effectiveness very quickly, with placebo-like results after a third day of common dosage
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So yea, insomnia is a separate problem that needs to be dealt with. Benadryl is not the solution man
 
I'm not sure how much tylenol PM you're taking, but if you're only taking the recommended dose (50mg) you're only taking 1g of tylenol which is WELL below the maximum recommended dose (which is always WAY lower than the maximum you should take period) then it's not that big of a deal. As stated earlier, the PM in tylenol PM IS benadryl (dyphenhydramine HCl), so you're already taking benadryl lol. I recommend getting unisom with doxylamine as the active ingredient (and you can actually get it in a generic form for cheap). On the melatonin, taking more than 3mg is really just a waste-there's no point in it. Basic rule of thumb though is that if you're taking doxylamine, just take half of the amount of diphenhydramine you would take. If you're having to take A TON of tylenol PM though, you need to speak with a doctor about it. Best of luck to you.

-Doug

edit: okay, I didn't read that wrong...you ARE taking a shit ton of tylenol PM...ya, you need to speak with a GP about that, and possibly get referred to a sleep specialist and have them work something out with you. I just kind of skimmed the thread and threw in my 2 cents and I apologize about that lol...once again...good luck to you...
 
mgrady is spot-on throughout.

I would recommend trying doxylamine because it has all of the benefits of diphenhydramine as a sedative/hypnotic and at least personally I find it to have less side effects. I wouldn't recommend using ANYTHING all the time to sleep but it's superior to most alternatives you can find.

Unisom typically is sold with diphenhydramine now in the US but Unison-II and generic equivalents still have doxylamine. You can find other preparations as well if you look around.
 
it's worth noting that it's shown that that extended use of apap at normal dosing isn't likely to cause any long term problems. the problem associated with it is increased ALT, a liver enzyme, which is reversable after short term.


Even though Tylenol most likely does not cause serious liver damage in recommended doses, it can cause elevations of liver enzymes in the blood suggesting injury to the liver. In a study of 145 healthy subjects who were randomized to receive placebo or 4 grams of Tylenol daily for two weeks, subjects in the placebo group experienced no elevations of ALT, a liver enzyme, but 33%-44% of the subjects in the Tylenol group had ALT elevations greater than three times the upper limits of normal. The highest ALT elevation was greater than 500 which is approximately 10 times the upper limit of normal. All enzyme elevations returned to normal after stopping Tylenol. Thus, recommended doses of Tylenol given to healthy subjects for two weeks can cause mild to moderate reversible liver injury
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The melatonin suggestion is a good one. In fact, if you go to a GNC or other health supplement store, they usually carry extended release versions of it.

If you want to go the rx rute, then there are a few options available there as well. Like Lunesta or Ambien.
Here is a good site (recommended to me by a doctor) that has some answers for you. I'd suggest staying away from using benzos to try and get some sleep tho like they have on the first page.

http://www.spine-health.com/wellness/sleep/sleep-medications-prescription

There are also herbal remedies that are available and are usually not that expensive.

Also, maybe checking into a sleep clinic may be of some value to you.

I wish you good luck and hope you can get the rest you need.
 
Sooo Im pretty sure Liver Enzymes is what my doctor said and that is what the post above said. There was a bunch of posts with a lot of information that I wanted to quote but too many to quote so Ill just say it all.

I would love to not take ANYTHING for sleeping but after using drugs for so long, having none its so hard to sleep, and at the moment I cant afford to get my body used to going to sleep without pills due to being in college at the moment, and then when im not in college im working. So I dont really know when I will be able to do it besides wean off, or wean off then on weekends not take any and just try to sleep that way.


But I could have swore that on the back of my Tylenol PM is was Diphenhydate or Diphenhydramine or something like that and Benadryl was Diphen too but it ended in something else.... no? yes? I mean I guess ill have to look, but I dont see why everyone would agree that it is the same thing if it isn't, but then why would they not put ITCH RELIEF or ALLERGY RELIEF on the Tylenol PM bottles aswell if it has the same doseage, just with asprin, and does the same things as Benadryl does?

I do take melatonin, but that doesnt really put you to sleep or sedate you, it pretty much sets your biological clock.. most usful for going in different time zones, as you produce your own melatonin when your own clock thinks you are suppose to.

So what exactly is the difference between Unisom and Tylenol PM now? Like i said i would rather not be on any but i cant do that at the moment, but I dont want to take Tylenol PM if there is somethign better or the same out there that I can take that wont effect my liver or Liver Enzymes.. thats is im PRETTY SURE what the doctor said, and when i went to get my blood taken, i got lymes, my sugars and some normal stuff and Liver Enzymes was checked off. The only thing is I pee A LOT at night for some reason, i dont know if it is because of this Tylenol PM or just because I drink lattee stuff everyday and usually have a drink at all times... i dont know.

Milk thistle? Is that proven to rehabilitate your Liver or no? I dont want to buy more herbal stuff than I do already :p. Anything else that I could take, or eat? I dont think I really need to at all, i dont think my liver is even that bad.. i just dont want it to get to that point, luckily im not a drinker :P

Also, I do get my sleep, i get atleast 6 hours of sleep everyday at the MINIMUM because i take the stuff earlier and go to sleep eventually after a little bit, but i usually get my 8 hours of sleep, i just wake up a few times every night.. i think i wake up because i KNOW im going to wake up and i made a habit of it.
 
Sooo Im pretty sure Liver Enzymes is what my doctor said and that is what the post above said.
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i was a little unclear and unless you read the excerpt the study was only done over a two week period with that particular study, so not particularly extended use in that case study. anecdotal evidence seems to prove such from many accounts of people using up to the recommended dosage of apap for extended periods of time (+1 year as one subject) have had their liver tested and everything fine. these people have been performing cold water extractions on predominately codeine.

i don't think the apap, if you're taking no more than the maximun recommended doses, is the cause here though is a great possibility that it's exacerbating whatever the pre-existing problem is that your doctor has detected. do you know what it is?

i do agree, though, that you should cut the apap use.

Milk thistle? Is that proven to rehabilitate your Liver or no?
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i'm pretty certain that was disproved. i don't have anything evidential to present right now but will have a snoop around shortly.
 
kanyeknievel said:
1 But I could have swore that on the back of my Tylenol PM is was Diphenhydate or Diphenhydramine or something like that and Benadryl was Diphen too but it ended in something else.... no? yes? I mean I guess ill have to look, but I dont see why everyone would agree that it is the same thing if it isn't, but then why would they not put ITCH RELIEF or ALLERGY RELIEF on the Tylenol PM bottles aswell if it has the same doseage, just with asprin, and does the same things as Benadryl does?

I do take melatonin, but that doesnt really put you to sleep or sedate you, it pretty much sets your biological clock.. most usful for going in different time zones, as you produce your own melatonin when your own clock thinks you are suppose to.

2 So what exactly is the difference between Unisom and Tylenol PM now? Like i said i would rather not be on any but i cant do that at the moment, but I dont want to take Tylenol PM if there is somethign better or the same out there that I can take that wont effect my liver or Liver Enzymes.. thats is im PRETTY SURE what the doctor said, and when i went to get my blood taken, i got lymes, my sugars and some normal stuff and Liver Enzymes was checked off. The only thing is I pee A LOT at night for some reason, i dont know if it is because of this Tylenol PM or 3just because I drink lattee stuff everyday and usually have a drink at all times... i dont know.
.
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1. Diphenhydramine has many different uses so it will be marketed in different ways. It will be marketed as a sleep aid, for allergy relief, etc...

2. The differences between unisom and tylenol are a couple of things. Tylenol PM contains acetaminophen + 25 mg of Diphenhydramine. Unisom comes in two versions. Diphenhydramine in 25 and 50 mg doses and as doxalyimine but I cant remember the doses. Unisome, in either form does not contain any acetaminophen (Tylenol).
Also, you could try something like an ibuprofen PM which wont affect your liver as much and as long as you dont have any ulcers or other stomach problems, you can use it for a while. It also contains a higher dose of Diphenhydramine-38 mg.

3. Cut out the all day drinking of lattes. If you avoid the intake of caffeine at least 6 hours (8 hours is preferable) before bedtime, then you will have a better ability to fall asleep. Especially if you use melatonin supplements.

To expand on what I said earlier about melatonin supplements. When I went to GNC they had tablets of melatonin that you could chew up and it would get into your system fairly quickly. If you take one of those, plus an ER melatonin supplement I am willing to bet you will sleep a bit better and not wake up groggy in the morning from just waking up all thru the night.

I hope this helps clarify things for you.
 
aveoturbo said:
1. Diphenhydramine has many different uses so it will be marketed in different ways. It will be marketed as a sleep aid, for allergy relief, etc...

2. The differences between unisom and tylenol are a couple of things. Tylenol PM contains acetaminophen + 25 mg of Diphenhydramine. Unisom comes in two versions. Diphenhydramine in 25 and 50 mg doses and as doxalyimine but I cant remember the doses. Unisome, in either form does not contain any acetaminophen (Tylenol).
Also, you could try something like an ibuprofen PM which wont affect your liver as much and as long as you dont have any ulcers or other stomach problems, you can use it for a while. It also contains a higher dose of Diphenhydramine-38 mg.

3. Cut out the all day drinking of lattes. If you avoid the intake of caffeine at least 6 hours (8 hours is preferable) before bedtime, then you will have a better ability to fall asleep. Especially if you use melatonin supplements.

To expand on what I said earlier about melatonin supplements. When I went to GNC they had tablets of melatonin that you could chew up and it would get into your system fairly quickly. If you take one of those, plus an ER melatonin supplement I am willing to bet you will sleep a bit better and not wake up groggy in the morning from just waking up all thru the night.

I hope this helps clarify things for you.
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Yes that helps. I will have to get the unisom then so I dont have to take the tylenol, like i said i would rather not take any, but id rather just take the dyphenhydramine itself then. But if thats the case, for now i will just take benadryll until I can buy Unisom. But I do have Melatonin right now that I can chew that is in a chalky tablet form, but it doesnt taste like anything.

the lattees are damn good :/ . Maybe ill just have to get a small size then, i make them good hahah. its at quickcheck, well its different where u go. but a gasstation place u go in and can order sandwiches on a monitor and all the self service stuff. but anyways ill get them earlier or make small ones.

But thanks for all the help, and the more information the better. and hopfulyl there is nothing too much or anything at all wrong with my liver with the bloodtest, i dont know why i would pee so much other than drinking the big lattees and other drinks, but i pee like every 15-20 minutes at night. very annoying. ill see if its the lattee thing soon or what.

Thank you guys, but more information the better. Ill keep you guys posted !
 
The tablets I got that were meant to be chewed up had a pleasant cherry taste and was designed to be absorbed very quickly. It would start making me tired with in 5 minutes.

At one point I was in a somewhat similar situation as you and after a while, they stopped working for me unless I took massive amounts of whatever I was taking at the time. Then I had to ask my doctor for help.
 
Well, as has already been suggested - if the Tylenol PM was helping you sleep. then just buy Benadryl (or any generic diphenhydramine)! - same shit minus the liver damage. I'd avoid Unisom and the like - it's the same drug, but tends to cost a lot more than diphenhydramine marketed for allergies, because I guess they've realized that people are silly and won't notice that it's the same thing as Benadryl. Plus, gel caps are annoying. I've used diphen to sleep for quite some time - 50 mg is the recommended dose for sleep aid, but I generally take 75-100 mg because I've been taken it for too damn long. And I've been trying to find something else, because I still always feel terribly drowsy for some time in the morning. People kept suggesting melatonin to me, but I tried it for about a week and it did fuck-all.
 
Benadryl should be fine if you only take 1-2 pills...

Why don't you ask for a prescription of ambien/some other benzo for sleep?
 
CombatWombat said:
Benadryl should be fine if you only take 1-2 pills...

Why don't you ask for a prescription of ambien/some other benzo for sleep?
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To Doug, no I take a bunch of things for Anxiety relief.. i dont have that bad anxiety but I have DP which I dont want to think about so I take stuff to try to calm my mind down and anxiety so I can get off klonopin.

Above, I'm prescribed 100mg i believe, of hydrozyzine* which is basically a lot stronger Anti-histimine/Beandryll, but it takes more than just that.. yes ive gotten so used to all of that and drugs that i need it :/. But the reason I dont want Ambien is because of the fact that A. When I go to sleep, the main problem is.. I can GO TO SLEEP, its just I never want to, but I love to sleep. Lol its like a paradox. Like ill take my melatonin at a certanin time to try to get my biological clock set for that time, then when i know i wanna sleep within the next 45 miuntes ill take the tylenol PM then after that time or like two or three cigarattes.. i always smoke when im in bed or really drowsy for some reason, i take my hydrozyzine, then usually do meditating/hypnosis then sleep like 10-20 mins after that. So I that really drowsy feeling it its peak is gone by then... that all means when I take the sleeping things I stay up and dont go to sleep right away because i dont want to... so i dotn want ambien because incase i dont go to sleep from it and i dont want to trip out. and because i stay up i dont want to trip out hahah.
and benzo, noo bad idea. I used to buy xanax from a friend and take that at night and I slept that way.... probably why i need more Tylenol PM now, because that was just before this, that was the last drugs i was using basically. But im trying to get off my klonopin all together, which is now .85mg ? about

I do have just Benadryl so I might just use that, but you said that some Unisom has more Diphenhydramine in it than usual PM pills?
 
Yes, unisom has more diph in it than Tylenol pms.
Tylenol PM is 500 APAP/25 Diph
Benadryl is 25 mg Diph
Unisom is 50 mg Diph or X mg of Doxolymine

The reason Unisom is usually a tad more expensive than say Benadryl is a bit obvious really. Its because it has double the medicine in it.
 
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