-
PD Moderators: Esperighanto | JackARoe |
Has anybody ever gotten thoughts like this on psychedelics?
- Thread starter Warped Reality
- Start date
lysergication
Bluelighter
OP, I'm in your dream and you're in mine. paradoxical reality, impossible but there nonetheless. Divine illusion.
Reminds me of a very special thing about my mind that I discovered when I was a little kid:
Whenever I tried to imagine pure nothingness -- as in, "what if the big bang never happened?" -- I would get this huge surge of this incredibly unique sense of amazement and perplexity, to the point of laughing out loud.It still happens to this day!
Just try it. Ask yourself, "what if nothing existed?".
Like the concept of death... I sure laughed about that one, on a high dose of MXE
Termino
Bluelighter
I've had thoughts like this WAY before I tripped, or even smoked weed. The drugs just helped fine tune these thoughts.
Each one of us lives in his/her own enclosed universe, and each universe is utterly unique to the individual. The more our universes overlap, the more we have in common (think 'Venn Diagrams'). The less your universe overlaps others, the 'farther out' you are, until little or nothing overlaps & you're finally labeled a nutcase.
Sometimes it amazes me the we can communicate as well as we do.
Bi0hazardOpeth
Bluelighter
- Joined
- Sep 15, 2010
- Messages
- 106
There are many aspects of deception and misdirection in the world. Especially with the advancements of mass media, and advertisement firms / lobbiest's who spin coverage to protect the image of companies they work for, or for a political influence on the public. For example: to gain consent for an illegal war or action that wouldn't be supported without manipulative persuasion. A clear example of such lies, distortions and censorship that we can all identify with, would be the outrageous Anti Drug War. Over hundreds of years, lies and distortions have been compounded upon each other - simply based on the farce that is the International Drug War. When BBC, or the history channel generally cover topics concerning drugs, they choose to focus on specific issues and use those to argue why non-pharmaceutical drugs are generally bad with exaggerated claims. They do this while leaving out many of the positive aspects, while using their cherry picked coverage to demonize the drug at hand, Cannabis for example. We have all seen it. So yes, there are many false realities that are shared by the general public from media/knowledge exposure that was already distorted on mass scales for control and influence of the public's beliefs and thus what they support or not. I'm glad there are independent film makers who are making documentaries with a fair coverage of the benefits of cannabis and psychedelics. However, this doesn't mean the whole world is a lie or not real.
Basically what I'm saying is like the tree falling in the forest question.
Let's say you had 1 tree in your backyard, and you went on vacation. The tree fell while you were gone - to you it didn't make a sound, you didn't even know it feel until you got back. But it still made it's impact in the world - and you can come back and see that a tree that was always stood up, was no longer standing. Yes, you are living in a false reality in many ways based on the lies and story-lines of political, advertising, consumerism entities overtime. However, I think what you are feeling is that there is more to life than what you are living, and that we have been led away from what really matters overtime. This is a great starting point to trying to get rid of superficial aspects of one's life and move towards a life with deeper meaning, and sharing connection with others.
The claim that the world where you are currently using a laptop to read this right now, doesn't exist, is actually impossible - If you still have "Ready to Hand" objects (philosophy term). These are things like you're car, your pants, the color of your eyes - things that ground you to consistencies in you're environment. Things that when you go to sleep and wake up are still there the next morning, like this computer you are typing on now. Overtime experiences may lead to you interpret those things in the environment differently, but it will still be a subject/object relationship with things that are there (unless removed otherwise), because they do stay in your environment. Decartes shortsightings leads to this type of psychosis in thought. Where he said, we were just consciousness experiencing different fragments of time that weren't connected, however - we have things that do not disappear along with our consciousness. Even if you are tripping face, and can't make sense of anything in you're room - or things in you're room morphed into other objects. When all is said and done, if you knocked something on the ground a broke it like a bong, even if you thought it was some mystical guide that you were talking to - but knocked over. The bong, that you were able to use before, would be gone and the left over glass would still be there if you hadn't cleaned it up yet. You are part of the world, if you ran over someone - the consequences would be there the next day and for the rest of time, but yes a lot of the world we take to be reality is built on spin or propaganda in ways. The new age means of influencing peoples actions in the world, is by molding people's beliefs on a mass scale to achieve an ideological alliance with the law, product, or war they are trying to pitch (sell).
Some important and related quotes:
"In the absence of contrasting views the very highest form of propaganda warfare can be fought: the propaganda for a definition of reality within which only certain limited viewpoints are possible." -- C Wright Mills
“None are more helplessly enslaved than those who falsely believe that they are free.” - Johann Wolfgang von Goethe
“We are governed, our minds are molded, our tastes formed, our ideas suggested, largely by men we have never heard of.” These “invisible governors” are heroic elite. “It is they who pull the wires which control the public mind, who harness old social forces and contrive new ways to bind and guide the world.” (Continued) "The conscious and intelligent manipulation of the organized habits and opinions of the masses is an important element in democratic society. Those who manipulate this unseen mechanism of society constitute an invisible government which is the true ruling power of our country." -Edward Bernays, Propaganda (1928)
"The general public, are ignorant and meddlesome outsiders who must be put in their place. They are to be spectators of action not participants who must be regimented to abandon any ideas about controlling their own lives. Their task is to develop a philosophy of futility and to follow orders while focusing their attention on more superficial things which comprise much of fashionable consumption." - Walter Lippmann (Pioneer of Propaganda) (1922)
^ Doesn't this sound very similar to the mass media system and what people pay attention too today?
Basically what I'm saying is like the tree falling in the forest question.
Let's say you had 1 tree in your backyard, and you went on vacation. The tree fell while you were gone - to you it didn't make a sound, you didn't even know it feel until you got back. But it still made it's impact in the world - and you can come back and see that a tree that was always stood up, was no longer standing. Yes, you are living in a false reality in many ways based on the lies and story-lines of political, advertising, consumerism entities overtime. However, I think what you are feeling is that there is more to life than what you are living, and that we have been led away from what really matters overtime. This is a great starting point to trying to get rid of superficial aspects of one's life and move towards a life with deeper meaning, and sharing connection with others.
The claim that the world where you are currently using a laptop to read this right now, doesn't exist, is actually impossible - If you still have "Ready to Hand" objects (philosophy term). These are things like you're car, your pants, the color of your eyes - things that ground you to consistencies in you're environment. Things that when you go to sleep and wake up are still there the next morning, like this computer you are typing on now. Overtime experiences may lead to you interpret those things in the environment differently, but it will still be a subject/object relationship with things that are there (unless removed otherwise), because they do stay in your environment. Decartes shortsightings leads to this type of psychosis in thought. Where he said, we were just consciousness experiencing different fragments of time that weren't connected, however - we have things that do not disappear along with our consciousness. Even if you are tripping face, and can't make sense of anything in you're room - or things in you're room morphed into other objects. When all is said and done, if you knocked something on the ground a broke it like a bong, even if you thought it was some mystical guide that you were talking to - but knocked over. The bong, that you were able to use before, would be gone and the left over glass would still be there if you hadn't cleaned it up yet. You are part of the world, if you ran over someone - the consequences would be there the next day and for the rest of time, but yes a lot of the world we take to be reality is built on spin or propaganda in ways. The new age means of influencing peoples actions in the world, is by molding people's beliefs on a mass scale to achieve an ideological alliance with the law, product, or war they are trying to pitch (sell).
Some important and related quotes:
"In the absence of contrasting views the very highest form of propaganda warfare can be fought: the propaganda for a definition of reality within which only certain limited viewpoints are possible." -- C Wright Mills
“None are more helplessly enslaved than those who falsely believe that they are free.” - Johann Wolfgang von Goethe
“We are governed, our minds are molded, our tastes formed, our ideas suggested, largely by men we have never heard of.” These “invisible governors” are heroic elite. “It is they who pull the wires which control the public mind, who harness old social forces and contrive new ways to bind and guide the world.” (Continued) "The conscious and intelligent manipulation of the organized habits and opinions of the masses is an important element in democratic society. Those who manipulate this unseen mechanism of society constitute an invisible government which is the true ruling power of our country." -Edward Bernays, Propaganda (1928)
"The general public, are ignorant and meddlesome outsiders who must be put in their place. They are to be spectators of action not participants who must be regimented to abandon any ideas about controlling their own lives. Their task is to develop a philosophy of futility and to follow orders while focusing their attention on more superficial things which comprise much of fashionable consumption." - Walter Lippmann (Pioneer of Propaganda) (1922)
^ Doesn't this sound very similar to the mass media system and what people pay attention too today?
Last edited:
atara
Bluelighter
I had thoughts like that for a long while before taking psychedelics. Tripping helped me get over it. It would probably help to read some philosophy though.
Jakeperson
Bluelighter
I don't see how that proves reality is real. If I went crazy and still believed one of those things was there even though it wasn't it would still be as real to me as it was before, no matter how many people told me it wasn't.
If this was all just some form of illusion (dream etc) those things could be there to ground me to that illusion so I continue to believe it's real.
I'm not saying your wrong just that I don't think that that is solid evidence.
ColtDan
Bluelighter
- Joined
- Jul 27, 2009
- Messages
- 24,876
PsychedelicPeptide
Greenlighter
- Joined
- Jul 28, 2008
- Messages
- 721
A dissociative told me that the physical world is the way the Matrix that powers the Universe sees itself, and that when you die your psyche merges back with the Matrix (thus uniting our consciousnesses) in what should be considered the Afterlife. It didn't tell me anything beyond that though.
So I'm not sure, I think you may have misheard when it actually said "The physical world is real, self-existent consciousness is all and indivisible!" ??? ;-P
Bi0hazardOpeth
Bluelighter
- Joined
- Sep 15, 2010
- Messages
- 106
Jakeperson,
I agree, it can be misunderstood - reality can be different for each person - but there is a physical world that exists for the most part regardless of our interpretation or hallucination of it. Like the movie "The Gods Must Be Crazy" the coke bottle had different meanings and uses to different cultures, but it was in it's physical form still the same glass object.
I posit that 'Reality' is a subjective phenomenon, that is created by a specific person's exposure in life (from where they are, what they go through, what they learn) in combination with their interpretative lens (How they make sense of all those things they encounter, which is dynamic and can change day-day or year-year). As a result people create a reality in their head, which is a projection of what they take to be true around them, or what they take to be there - "how they see things."
It's the same way, 10 people could watch a single thing happen and have different interpretations of what happened or what it meant. To each person, they could have their own subjective reality of what took place. Or multiple people looking at an art painting, and saying what the painting is supposed to represent. In life, you interact with many people who have had different life experiences, beliefs, or constructions of subjective reality - which is why you could get in an argument with someone (difference in reality).
What Propaganda tries to do, is rubber stamp the same exposure, perspective of how to interpret the events to the masses - so that they all have as close to a "shared reality" as possible, whether the coverage is accurate or misleading. Millions of people all tuning into the same footage such as MTV, CNN or Fox News. They all get this guided interpretation process, that attempts to lead most of the viewers to the same belief or understanding - this is where you're reality and others realities can start to feel "false" or "Fake". For instance, the majority of the world, though that the earth was Flat at a point - but the widespread belief had nothing to do with the actual reality. Many people got their understanding of the shape of the earth from the same sources, and had a shared false reality - it's as simple as that. But that doesn't mean that the laptop you are looking at isn't there , even though people can look at the same laptop and relate to it different ways, in what they can do on it - or a new understand of it after a trip that someone else didn't have. Also if you ran over someone - it would have an effect on them and their life. Even if they look like a gremlin while you are hitting them.
Why else would sites like this, recommend that people not drive while tripping. So they don't do damage to things they are misinterpreting or that no longer appear in their visual field. Because they have real repercussions on other peoples lives. And they exist in a shared environment with you, even if the way you make sense of that environment and create a reality are different.
-Matrix Comments--
I Think of the matrix as the false realities that have been accepted by the public, like with the false understandings of the anti drug war - a lot of the mainstream public has been told. They are a programmed reality in the sense that, they are realities that are sold to the public so they are functional as 'batteries' who can be used to support and carry out laws, wars, and government/corporate agendas. Or they are false realities, that make people feel like things are ok, when there is corruption or large issues hidden from the public's exposure - or superficial entertainment grid like 24/7 TV, Video Games Movies - where people are so 'plugged into' these pleasure based distractions, that they don't care about the truth - or rarely go looking deeper for it. Like when Neo was asked to take the red pill or blue pill, it was a choice if he really wanted to see the truth or go on living in the false realities supported by the public in the matrix. When he took the pill of truth, it was cold to the touch all over his body - just like getting exposure to the harsh realities behind some of the lies. But once you realize they are lies, you can never go back to the fake world, you are stuck to some percentage outside of the matrix.
I agree, it can be misunderstood - reality can be different for each person - but there is a physical world that exists for the most part regardless of our interpretation or hallucination of it. Like the movie "The Gods Must Be Crazy" the coke bottle had different meanings and uses to different cultures, but it was in it's physical form still the same glass object.
I posit that 'Reality' is a subjective phenomenon, that is created by a specific person's exposure in life (from where they are, what they go through, what they learn) in combination with their interpretative lens (How they make sense of all those things they encounter, which is dynamic and can change day-day or year-year). As a result people create a reality in their head, which is a projection of what they take to be true around them, or what they take to be there - "how they see things."
It's the same way, 10 people could watch a single thing happen and have different interpretations of what happened or what it meant. To each person, they could have their own subjective reality of what took place. Or multiple people looking at an art painting, and saying what the painting is supposed to represent. In life, you interact with many people who have had different life experiences, beliefs, or constructions of subjective reality - which is why you could get in an argument with someone (difference in reality).
What Propaganda tries to do, is rubber stamp the same exposure, perspective of how to interpret the events to the masses - so that they all have as close to a "shared reality" as possible, whether the coverage is accurate or misleading. Millions of people all tuning into the same footage such as MTV, CNN or Fox News. They all get this guided interpretation process, that attempts to lead most of the viewers to the same belief or understanding - this is where you're reality and others realities can start to feel "false" or "Fake". For instance, the majority of the world, though that the earth was Flat at a point - but the widespread belief had nothing to do with the actual reality. Many people got their understanding of the shape of the earth from the same sources, and had a shared false reality - it's as simple as that. But that doesn't mean that the laptop you are looking at isn't there , even though people can look at the same laptop and relate to it different ways, in what they can do on it - or a new understand of it after a trip that someone else didn't have. Also if you ran over someone - it would have an effect on them and their life. Even if they look like a gremlin while you are hitting them.
Why else would sites like this, recommend that people not drive while tripping. So they don't do damage to things they are misinterpreting or that no longer appear in their visual field. Because they have real repercussions on other peoples lives. And they exist in a shared environment with you, even if the way you make sense of that environment and create a reality are different.
-Matrix Comments--
I Think of the matrix as the false realities that have been accepted by the public, like with the false understandings of the anti drug war - a lot of the mainstream public has been told. They are a programmed reality in the sense that, they are realities that are sold to the public so they are functional as 'batteries' who can be used to support and carry out laws, wars, and government/corporate agendas. Or they are false realities, that make people feel like things are ok, when there is corruption or large issues hidden from the public's exposure - or superficial entertainment grid like 24/7 TV, Video Games Movies - where people are so 'plugged into' these pleasure based distractions, that they don't care about the truth - or rarely go looking deeper for it. Like when Neo was asked to take the red pill or blue pill, it was a choice if he really wanted to see the truth or go on living in the false realities supported by the public in the matrix. When he took the pill of truth, it was cold to the touch all over his body - just like getting exposure to the harsh realities behind some of the lies. But once you realize they are lies, you can never go back to the fake world, you are stuck to some percentage outside of the matrix.
Last edited:
PsychedelicPeptide
Greenlighter
- Joined
- Jul 28, 2008
- Messages
- 721
Ooooh yeah maybe we all just see "the Matrix" because we have all seen that damn movie and our minds automatically associate what the "Infinite" is with those damn neverending lines of computer symbols... so we think it is "the Matrix" when it is really the Infinite. We just have no way to mentally visualize it because we have never seen it, and have no way to conceptualize what it really is.
Or maybe the Infinite really is powered by the Matrix. OR, it is neither the Infinite or the Matrix because Infinite falls into the same logic trap of being a predefined symbol or idea. Then it must be something that only the purest psychedelic thoughts can describe, if you can even describe it! I say we all dose up and try to figure it out.
Or maybe the Infinite really is powered by the Matrix. OR, it is neither the Infinite or the Matrix because Infinite falls into the same logic trap of being a predefined symbol or idea. Then it must be something that only the purest psychedelic thoughts can describe, if you can even describe it! I say we all dose up and try to figure it out.
Last edited:
cosmicjoke
Greenlighter
- Joined
- Nov 15, 2011
- Messages
- 20
the mind is the way the universe views it self. when we seek altered states the mind filters are by passed and we are able to see through the space time illusion in which behind it lies infinite chaos. i think if we allow the chaos to flow through the mind without resistance ie ego clinging to its original programmed circuits we can attain higher levels of consciousness thus achieving enlightenment and that enlightenment differs from person to person, i think its the way we try making order out of chaos ie god head. love is the law. love under will.
im new here.
peace.
im new here.
peace.
IamMe90
Bluelighter
descartes matrix etc
fridgebuzz
Bluelighter
Stop using the term infinite. It doesn't exist.
there is no such thing as seeing the universe directly. We can never know reality beyond our interpretation of it.
there is no such thing as seeing the universe directly. We can never know reality beyond our interpretation of it.
I've been called a long standing branch before but only by women.
But seriously, about those thoughts? As long as you keep relativating everything IMO it's not only okay, it is profound to wonder whether one of the scenario's is true, for example one of the freaky things about reality is that when you really start zooming in to a quantum scale, things behave similar to how they would if all of this was just a virtualization of a huge computer (like something is not rendered unless it is necessary, in that kind of way).
Yeah I have thoughts like this ever since I started tripping but I am not having them ALL the time like a couple of years ago, that wasn't healthy anymore. But I never came so absorbed in it that I rejected normally subjectively experienced reality as having it's own huge primary value since that is what we live in directly, or seem to. If you get too absorbed that is the start of derealization I guess, can happen if you really trip 24/7 or something. Be careful with that and keep things in perspective.
I don't live my daily life by these beliefs but if you ask me, then yes fundamentally I believe everything is a sort of illusion.
IamMe90
Bluelighter
Solipsism is a ridiculous branch of philosophy to actually positively endorse, it's more like a skeptical possibility that you have to accept but there are too many compelling a posteriori arguments against solipsism to actually believe that it is true
cosmicjoke
Greenlighter
- Joined
- Nov 15, 2011
- Messages
- 20
well thats a paradoxical statement coming from some one who does not approve of the word infinite. i think the universe is infinite, the more reality we know the more reality we interpret leaving more reality unknown. that unknown is the infinite. what is reality really? i shouldv'e just said that.
fridgebuzz
Bluelighter
Claiming we can never know reality beyond our interpretation is not paradoxical at all. Saying the universe is infinite is a paradox. To say the universe is infinite also says everything in the universe is infinite which means I am infinite, and I am not. Suffice to say the universe is really large and we are really small, but to say the universe is infinite just because we cannot comprehend its entirety is presuming too much. In an infinite universe nothing would be possible, if that makes sense.
I agree that solipsism is in general not to be taken seriously and more like a thought experiment a lot of people go through at one or several points in their lives, and the perspective does has it's own uses but it should never be taken too far by any means.
I disagree with the following though:
Because there are actually types of infinite that are more infinite than other types of infinite. OK yes this is also where I get lost but apparently it is true. You can say the universe is infinite because you will never get to the microscopic or macroscopic boundaries. Even quantitized subatomic particles apparently can be smashes as long as there is enough energy to do it. And the outer boundaries are an idea with no practical use. You should not expect there to exist something beyond a veil that propagates at lightspeed ever since the beginning of not only space but also time itself.
I disagree with the following though:
Because there are actually types of infinite that are more infinite than other types of infinite. OK yes this is also where I get lost but apparently it is true. You can say the universe is infinite because you will never get to the microscopic or macroscopic boundaries. Even quantitized subatomic particles apparently can be smashes as long as there is enough energy to do it. And the outer boundaries are an idea with no practical use. You should not expect there to exist something beyond a veil that propagates at lightspeed ever since the beginning of not only space but also time itself.