Stimulants Blood pressure 199/101, and HR 117

[CFC]

He didn't devellop anything wow...how dare you reply to him like that in absence of fact? You're just trying to scare amphetamine users out of using amphetamines. Is this what this site has become? [...] What you do here is unfair. You take advantage of his current mindstate to advance your own anti-drug agenda.

You've also accused myself and others of making "baseless assumptions" about OP. I'm not sure where this outrage is coming from. OP already made it clear he's in rehab for an addiction to amphetamines, and that he's cheating their tests. He's stated he gets extremely high blood pressure, tachycardia, an irregular heart rhythm and chest pains from his amp use, and that it appears to be getting worse. He rightly queried whether this behaviour could be dangerous and having an effect on his health. Subsequently, he posted this:

OOps
I came up with a brilliant idea: IV 300 mg bupropion with 1000 mg amphetamine in the same solution, not even 48 hours after the serious chest pains. WWWWHOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOSHHH

The result of which was that he called an ambulance. In response to this, I wrote a densely referenced summary of research discussing the risks and potential cardiovascular harms OP may be exposing himself to, both acutely and long-term, from that degree of stimulant abuse.

Delivering science-based harm reduction advice doesn't make me "anti-drug," and certainly not anti-stimulant, given my own predilection for such drugs. I am, however, concerned about OP's health and self-confessed risk factors, and trying to generate an informed perspective so he can (hopefully) enhance his choices - which is exactly the kind of advice Bluelight was set-up to provide. At no point have I made any attempt to judge OP for what he's doing (and nor would I).

Conversely, you've twice said you believe advice here should be based on science, harm reduction, and not 'grandma' language:

I don't encourage the OP to take toxic doses. I advocate knowledge, research and safe use of drugs, in safe doses.

Yet you continue to serve us with anecdotes based on your own singular experience:

I've had 175 heart rate on 5,000 different occasions, I can't even count the amount of times that what the op describes occurred to me...thousands of times over a decade and my health is better than ever.

You've also said:

As far as the OP is concerned, there is no evidence that he took a toxic dose.

Despite him telling us, after posting about experiencing tachycardia, chest pains and a BP of 199/101 - and that his sensitivity to his dosing regime is increasing - that he IV'd another 300mg bupropion and 1g of amphetamines less than 48 hours later. This is self-evidently highly risky behaviour.

However you've described him as being 'paranoid' because of his concerns, and then rather callously claimed that negative outcomes from abuse should be chalked up as some kind of Darwinian game:

You're just not comfortable with the idea that a drug can be a tool of natural selection.

You've also, rather bizarrely, attempted to equate the pro-adaptive effects of intensive cardiovascular exercise with prolonged stimulant abuse:

I'm not sure you understand what using amphetamines implies in terms of physical effects. That energy doesn't come out of nowhere, the body has to work harder to produce it, and all those effects are a direct result of a sped up metabolism. The same fricken thing occurs if you run 40km: Your heart rate is 175, skipping beats, maybe not beating exactly as it should...and the heart rate doesn't go down for a while. NORMAL.

Much of the harm from abuse of stimulants like amp/meth stems from the physiological effect of the prolonged catecholamine cascade (among a variety of specifically drug-induced mechanisms) as was discussed in my earlier post, and not merely superficial similarities in peak heart rate.

Furthermore, athletes don't undertake '40km marathons' daily, and nor do these marathons last 24-72+ hours, as is the case with many amp/meth sessions and as OP has attested to. To attempt to equate the two is plainly asinine and suggests your agenda here is simply to argue for the sake of it.

Your continued input shows surprisingly little concern for OP and others in his situation, and perhaps rather more for your own patently contrarian worldview which you seek to pass off as 'scientific' and HR-based when what you tend to write demonstrates the opposite.

 

[gmlifer]

Do you have a legitimate source for this? I'm genuinely curious, and I'm unable to find anything other than speculation.

Same here. I have spent hours trying to find solid information on this subject. The only thing I have found that seems to come close to truth is that when the speed wears off the oxy could kill you.

 

[Ksa]

You've also accused myself and others of making "baseless assumptions" about OP. I'm not sure where this outrage is coming from. OP already made it clear he's in rehab for an addiction to amphetamines, and that he's cheating their tests. He's stated he gets extremely high blood pressure, tachycardia, an irregular heart rhythm and chest pains from his amp use, and that it appears to be getting worse. He rightly queried whether this behaviour could be dangerous and having an effect on his health. Subsequently, he posted this:

"OOps
I came up with a brilliant idea: IV 300 mg bupropion with 1000 mg amphetamine in the same solution, not even 48 hours after the serious chest pains. WWWWHOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOSHHH"

The result of which was that he called an ambulance. In response to this, I wrote a densely referenced summary of research discussing the risks and potential cardiovascular harms OP may be exposing himself to, both acutely and long-term, from that degree of stimulant abuse.

Bupropion has a low 5-HT uptake, he IVd that in an unfortunate quantity, twice the manufacturer recommended single oral dose. But you say his high BP is caused by amphetamines...you must have a crystal ball because I don't know. And yes, I read that 1000mg figure. What seems to be the problem? Do you know the % composition of the amphetamine powder he's using? There are tons of amphetamine users who are happy with their 10% powder. Or are you assuming his street powder is 100%? You see where we're getting at CFC? You make too many assumptions.

And panic attack sufferers often call ambulances. ER is filled with them. And they're all dying.

Despite him telling us, after posting about experiencing tachycardia, chest pains and a BP of 199/101 - and that his sensitivity to his dosing regime is increasing - that he IV'd another 300mg bupropion and 1g of amphetamines less than 48 hours later. This is self-evidently highly risky behaviour.

However you've described him as being 'paranoid' because of his concerns, and then rather callously claimed that negative outcomes from abuse should be chalked up as some kind of Darwinian game:

What do amphetamines have to do with high BP? Amphetamines can either raise or lower BP depending on the individual and the doses/circumstances. Even if you were a doctor, you would not be able to put the two together without a consultation. Who told you that his high BP was amphetamine induced? Didn't he just tell you that he IVs bupro? When I take amphetamines I experience lower blood pressure than normal and mine raises on comedowns. Again, assumptions. If he has a high BP he should get a consultation with a doctor and get treated for his high BP condition.

Your continued input shows surprisingly little concern for OP and others in his situation, and perhaps rather more for your own patently contrarian worldview which you seek to pass off as 'scientific' and HR-based when what you tend to write demonstrates the opposite.

I told him to see a doctor for his high BP problem. How is that little concern? Your root cause analysis is pointing towards amphetamines, because you have a crystal ball, but I don't know! High BP can be indicative of 100 things. Disregard for the OP is to say that, for a fact, amphetamines are the cause, when in fact, he should see a doctor and determine the true cause. I don't have a high BP on amphetamines, in fact: I've rarely seen any amphetamine user complaining about high BP. This is actually one of the few topics even talking about blood pressure!

Maybe, once his doctor solves his health problems, he can have a bright future of healthy amphetamine use ahead of him. Who are you to take that away from him?

Do you have a legitimate source for this? I'm genuinely curious, and I'm unable to find anything other than speculation.

He has no source. There are other dangers of combining uppers with downers though but they are entirely manageable.

 

[CFC]

You say his high BP is caused by amphetamines...you must have a crystal ball because I don't know [...] What do amphetamines have to do with high BP?

Hypertension and tachycardia are among the most common side-effects of stimulant use, let alone abuse, as you and everyone else well knows and as was discussed in some detail before. OP also stated it was doing so.

Thankfully it appears you can no longer make further unhelpful and misleading contributions - good riddance.

 

[Båtmannen]

Was he banned for this thread? I don't think he meant any ill.

 

[keeping]

Was he banned for this thread? I don't think he meant any ill.

it wasn't that he was just a pest, he gave out dangerous advice to people struggling with addiction.
i can take all the stupid bullshit he used to say and sometimes i even found a few things he said entertaining (very few times)m, but when you start playing with peoples lives then that;s where i draw the line

 

[zephyr]

People with long histories of infractions wind up eventually banned. It might seem just because of this thread but it isnt.

1 gram in 24 hours plus other drugs on top is just too much and not just a waste of drugs it definitely would knock your heart around. Most of the time its not permanent though and a break is in order.

All stimulants can affect your blood pressure and some peoples heart valves and arteries are just genetically smaller and thinner and do tend to get taccycardia and also clots.


Moderation is the key if you want to indulge in drugs and drug users need to learn that they cant be a trashbag every day and keep using.

 

[Psychedalienation]

it wasn't that he was just a pest, he gave out dangerous advice to people struggling with addiction.
i can take all the stupid bullshit he used to say and sometimes i even found a few things he said entertaining (very few times)m, but when you start playing with peoples lives then that;s where i draw the line

I have never seen someone try so hard to defend something they were evidently WRONG at for so long with so much effort on an online forum... That was some other type of ridiculous.

@CFC: I second that, good riddance.

 

[keeping]

I have never seen someone try so hard to defend something they were evidently WRONG at for so long with so much effort on an online forum... That was some other type of ridiculous.

yeah totally, but i doubt he truly believed what he was saying made sense. he just enjoys playing word games, twisting logic to suit his own machinations and just generally trying to seem clever in some Machiavellian alter ego. whether or not he acts that way irl would be interesting to see... oh well, he's gone.

 

[Psychedalienation]

Yeah it was a challenging debate for him. I'm sure that's what was enjoyable to him. Especially when people get upset about it. He was trying to take it to the max level. It's understandable but not in a harm reduction forum with someone's life on the line. Yep, gone.

 

[Jekyl Anhydride]

Wow, the demise of KSA has come to pass.. A brave new world

 

[Båtmannen]

Is this good confirmation/proof that my heart rate is not because of panic/anxiety, but physical?

I just used 1,2 grams good street quality amphetamine during 6 hours. After the last half of it, I felt my heart racing and felt a pressure in my chest. i realized I was going to get a panic attack and IV:d 22,5 mg Zopiclone, and while all feelings of panic disappeared, my heart still raced very quick and irregular. However, I got no other symptoms like I usually do - I didn't feel like passing out, no pressure in my chest, no pain et cetera. Just the heart racing.

Does this mean my heart is not racing because due to panic attack, but due to the amphetamine in itself? I get a high heart rate and THEN a panic attack - not vice versa.

I asked earlier but didn't get a clear answer: how do I check my heart up without exactly saying that I've been using drugs? What tests do I ask for? Obviously I will tell them I have panic attacks, and fear for my heart, but I just can't mention the amph without getting huge problems. I will say that I have had my EKG tested after alot of panic attacks and it was fine, but that I've read that long periods of high, irregular pulse can harm the heart in ways that aren't detectable by a simple EKG?

My blood pressure didn't even go above 140/90 though. Just the heart. The pace increases until something like 220 beats / minute, and then it starts going COMPLETELY irregular. It's not like some beats are irregular, but there is like no pattern at all. Just random beats. First a few very hard, then some light even faster, and then I can't feel it at all for several seconds, et cetera. This is not necessarily accompanied by pain. When I panic, I get pain, but when there is no panic, there's no pain. Unless if my heart has been racing for days, then I can feel a bit sore in the heart. Like a muscle after very much work.

 

[Jabberwocky]

I lot of pharmacies have BP machines you can use for free to measure things like your heart rate. No questions asked.

Sounds like it's from the amp use more than anxiety per se.

 

[Jekyl Anhydride]

^ Tell the doctor you took too much pseudo ephedrine if you really don't want to spill your guts about your habit. It's probably one of the cuts anyways. There seem to be more active cuts these days that make for that yucky feeling on top of the amps which usually have a smoother feel. Although (is it 1 or 2g, or 1.2g?) what you took seems fairly hefty for a 6 hour window. Personally my limit was 1/2g of racemic inland empire made peanut butter meth and it was almost relaxing. The cuts play a role in the anxiety and a pissed off heart. The protocol for treating your condition is supportive meds to treat your symptoms till the stims clear and it would be the wise choice if you believe you are having an arrhythmia.

 

[Båtmannen]

I lot of pharmacies have BP machines you can use for free to measure things like your heart rate. No questions asked.

Sounds like it's from the amp use more than anxiety per se.

I have people measuring my BP old school.

The HR is tricky though: when the heart is racing at it's fastest pace, I believe it goes so fast that normal equipment can't measure it. They are not made for pulses above perhaps 200-220 per minute. Although I could imagine this, with a fucked up perception, I hav had people feeling my pulse, counting it, while simultaneously using equipment to measure it, and not every beat is strong enough to get counted (tried both neck, wrist and chest). When jit's racing extremely fast, it's almost not real beats, it's like just small parts of a beat. as if the heart is starting with the second beat before the first is over.

When this happens, I gradually lose consciousness and lose the feeling of my limbs.

Do you think I'm crazy, or is this some way this is actually what is happening? I wish I could visit some Moderator here just for a few minutes when my heart is racing, so I could get a confirmation from a fellow (pre?) drug addict that my heart is going faster than the machine says.

I hav had personel try this so many times they get angry if I ask them to try it again, lol.

 

[CFC]

Is this good confirmation/proof that my heart rate is not because of panic/anxiety, but physical?

I just used 1,2 grams good street quality amphetamine during 6 hours. After the last half of it, I felt my heart racing and felt a pressure in my chest. i realized I was going to get a panic attack and IV:d 22,5 mg Zopiclone, and while all feelings of panic disappeared, my heart still raced very quick and irregular. However, I got no other symptoms like I usually do - I didn't feel like passing out, no pressure in my chest, no pain et cetera. Just the heart racing.

Does this mean my heart is not racing because due to panic attack, but due to the amphetamine in itself? I get a high heart rate and THEN a panic attack - not vice versa.

I asked earlier but didn't get a clear answer: how do I check my heart up without exactly saying that I've been using drugs? What tests do I ask for? Obviously I will tell them I have panic attacks, and fear for my heart, but I just can't mention the amph without getting huge problems. I will say that I have had my EKG tested after alot of panic attacks and it was fine, but that I've read that long periods of high, irregular pulse can harm the heart in ways that aren't detectable by a simple EKG?

My blood pressure didn't even go above 140/90 though. Just the heart. The pace increases until something like 220 beats / minute, and then it starts going COMPLETELY irregular. It's not like some beats are irregular, but there is like no pattern at all. Just random beats. First a few very hard, then some light even faster, and then I can't feel it at all for several seconds, et cetera. This is not necessarily accompanied by pain. When I panic, I get pain, but when there is no panic, there's no pain. Unless if my heart has been racing for days, then I can feel a bit sore in the heart. Like a muscle after very much work.

If this isn't proof of the confusion and misinformation caused by KSA's posts I don't know what is.

Mate, there was never any doubt that your high BP and tachycardia were from the amphetamines. None whatsoever. Only one person was (absurdly and without any science to back it) telling you it was all in your head or just panic. I realise maybe all the papers I posted up in that earlier post aren't straightforward to grasp, so maybe this layman version will make it more clear for you:

Stimulants like amphetamines stimulate the release of large amounts of adrenaline (among other neurotransmitters). Adrenaline is that 'fight or flight' fear hormone that prepares the body for running from dinosaurs, chasing prey or fighting a rival. It's a very powerful hormone and it prepares the body by accelerating the heart rate (by speeding up the heart's 'pacemaker') and by increasing blood pressure (by squeezing the arteries tighter, thus putting the blood under greater presure). Your body is programmed to respond like this so that you have more blood and oxygen available for the muscles that your body expects you to use in running away/fighting.

In natural conditions and normal situations, this process only lasts for a limited period of time until the threat passes, and the heart and arteries have a chance to slow down and relax. However, when you take stimulants like amps/meth, it not only artificially mimics this fight-flight fear, but also does so for very unnaturally prolonged periods, potentially harming the whole system.

If you take high or very high (abuse) doses, the heart and arteries react even more strongly: your heart rate gets even faster, and your blood pressure rises even higher. Unfortunately stimulants can send a message to the organs so unnaturally strong that they can no longer cope. The heart's beat begins to lose it's steady rhythm over a certain bpm (the pacemaker can't keep up), and the heart begins to 'flutter' - which is what you're describing.

This flutter, called atrial fibrillation, is dangerous - the heart isn't able to pump blood efficiently around your body when it can't make nice strong contractions all across the heart. If you then push the dose even higher, you're asking the heart to work even harder and ultimately putting yourself at risk of the even more serious ventricular fibrillation, when the heart almost totally loses the ability to pump blood around your body at all. When it gets to that point, unfortunately the majority of people don't survive and can't be saved by doctors.

I'm going to plead with you now: please stop taking those huge doses. There really isn't a single test that could detect the harm you're doing. An EKG is a start for measuring any underlying harm to the heart's ability to conduct, but not damage (and hypersensitisation) of the pacemaker itself. A blood test for troponin levels is another possibility (it detects the degree of death of the heart's muscle cells). An ECG (also called an echocardiogram) is a more sophisticated diagnostic tool that can assess (visually) valve damage, hypertrophy of the ventricles, enlargement of the heart, reductions in heart ejection fraction (it's ability to pump blood), and potentially dangerous expansion of the main artery (the aorta) that leaves the heart.

But there is no way you'll be able to get the troponin blood test or ECG without fully informing your doctors of what's been going on and your concerns, as they are not standard tests.

Please stop mate

 

[Båtmannen]

If this isn't proof of the confusion and misinformation caused by KSA's posts I don't know what is.

Mate, there was never any doubt that your high BP and tachycardia were from the amphetamines. None whatsoever. Only one person was (absurdly and without any science to back it) telling you it was all in your head or just panic. I realise maybe all the papers I posted up in that earlier post aren't straightforward to grasp, so maybe this layman version will make it more clear for you:

Stimulants like amphetamines stimulate the release of large amounts of adrenaline (among other neurotransmitters). Adrenaline is that 'fight or flight' fear hormone that prepares the body for running from dinosaurs, chasing prey or fighting a rival. It's a very powerful hormone and it prepares the body by accelerating the heart rate (by speeding up the heart's 'pacemaker') and by increasing blood pressure (by squeezing the arteries tighter, thus putting the blood under greater presure). Your body is programmed to respond like this so that you have more blood and oxygen available for the muscles that your body expects you to use in running away/fighting.

In natural conditions and normal situations, this process only lasts for a limited period of time until the threat passes, and the heart and arteries have a chance to slow down and relax. However, when you take stimulants like amps/meth, it not only artificially mimics this fight-flight fear, but also does so for very unnaturally prolonged periods, potentially harming the whole system.

If you take high or very high (abuse) doses, the heart and arteries react even more strongly: your heart rate gets even faster, and your blood pressure rises even higher. Unfortunately stimulants can send a message to the organs so unnaturally strong that they can no longer cope. The heart's beat begins to lose it's steady rhythm over a certain bpm (the pacemaker can't keep up), and the heart begins to 'flutter' - which is what you're describing.

This flutter, called atrial fibrillation, is dangerous - the heart isn't able to pump blood efficiently around your body when it can't make nice strong contractions all across the heart. If you then push the dose even higher, you're asking the heart to work even harder and ultimately putting yourself at risk of the even more serious ventricular fibrillation, when the heart almost totally loses the ability to pump blood around your body at all. When it gets to that point, unfortunately the majority of people don't survive and can't be saved by doctors.

I'm going to plead with you now: please stop taking those huge doses. There really isn't a single test that could detect the harm you're doing. An EKG is a start for measuring any underlying harm to the heart's ability to conduct, but not damage (and hypersensitisation) of the pacemaker itself. A blood test for troponin levels is another possibility (it detects the degree of death of the heart's muscle cells). An ECG (also called an echocardiogram) is a more sophisticated diagnostic tool that can assess (visually) valve damage, hypertrophy of the ventricles, enlargement of the heart, reductions in heart ejection fraction (it's ability to pump blood), and potentially dangerous expansion of the main artery (the aorta) that leaves the heart.

But there is no way you'll be able to get the troponin blood test or ECG without fully informing your doctors of what's been going on and your concerns, as they are not standard tests.

Please stop mate

It wasn't only him. Even the paramedics said that no there's no problem with me. I have also done an ECG 2 times recently, with heart doctors analyzing it, and the first time they said that it was a textbook example, and the second that it was OK. I also, although not officially, asked a doctor about it and she assured me that if don't already have heart problems, amphetamines wont create it.

Only people here on BL has told me that I'm taking damage. I believe you, but I have to admit that I was also affected when the paramedics dismissed my problems as just something temporary and mostly, if not completely, imagined. When I last called the ambulance, I had planned to follow them to the hospital and get it fully investigated somehow, but they were so mean to me that I just said "Yeah, whatever" and went away. I had to beg for them to even take an ECG.

When I argued against them, saying that there are a few reported cases of people dieing from panic attacks, they answered "Do you know how much we have studied? How much have you studied?", and when I talked about my pain in the chest, they just said it was anxiety and that they didn't have time for this.


I'm also fairly sure I have a strong heart (that they also told me - "A young, strong, trained man like you doesn't get heart attacks), as it has stopped completely several times on H, and then coming back working perfectly, and it has also had no problems at all with shooting huge doses of MDMA, or even MDPV overdoses et cetera. I know I'm not immortal. I'm just explaining why i thought it was mostly about anxiety and not the heart: everyone who has met me IRL very quickly decides, and often even before checking my pulse, that I'm in no problem what so ever. Only people here have told me it's dangerous, and then when KSA confirmed what the clinicians already told me, I was stupid enough to believe him when he said something like "People here don't live in the real world". It's rather easy to believe that when at least 7 trained clincians have seen me about this and said the same thing.


By the way ... I just couldn't stop buying. Uppers are insanely addictive. The urge for more is much stronger than on opioids. I just kept buying and buying and buying, so now I've given my mother whatever I have left, so now I have to travel for 90 minutes x 2 to get the money and back here. It's pathetic, but a few days ago I was so desperate tht I ended up begging on the subway, and didn't stop until I had enough for at least a gram.

EDIT: thank you for your time by the way, although of course I don't take a drug unless I've read about it and understood it's mechanism, so I was aware that the heart beats faster on amphetamine, but something like 95 % of the people online, discussing the effects on the pulse by amphetamine, get nowhere near as high pulse as I get. Therefore I believed that the amphetamines was responsible for some of the elevation, but that it mostly was about panic. My experiment yesterday tells me something else, though.

I still think the panic raises fucks me up badly as well. I talked to a friend yesterday and he told me of shooting 2,5 grams at once. Then I got more reassurement that I wont die by taking 1,2 gram if I do it only 1 day.

 

[CFC]

It wasn't only him. Even the paramedics said that no there's no problem with me. I have also done an ECG 2 times recently, with heart doctors analyzing it, and the first time they said that it was a textbook example, and the second that it was OK. I also, although not officially, asked a doctor about it and she assured me that if don't already have heart problems, amphetamines wont create it.

Only people here on BL has told me that I'm taking damage. I believe you, but I have to admit that I was also affected when the paramedics dismissed my problems as just something temporary and mostly, if not completely, imagined. When I last called the ambulance, I had planned to follow them to the hospital and get it fully investigated somehow, but they were so mean to me that I just said "Yeah, whatever" and went away. I had to beg for them to even take an ECG.

When I argued against them, saying that there are a few reported cases of people dieing from panic attacks, they answered "Do you know how much we have studied? How much have you studied?", and when I talked about my pain in the chest, they just said it was anxiety and that they didn't have time for this.

I'm also fairly sure I have a strong heart (that they also told me - "A young, strong, trained man like you doesn't get heart attacks), as it has stopped completely several times on H, and then coming back working perfectly, and it has also had no problems at all with shooting huge doses of MDMA, or even MDPV overdoses et cetera. I know I'm not immortal. I'm just explaining why i thought it was mostly about anxiety and not the heart: everyone who has met me IRL very quickly decides, and often even before checking my pulse, that I'm in no problem what so ever. Only people here have told me it's dangerous, and then when KSA confirmed what the clinicians already told me, I was stupid enough to believe him when he said something like "People here don't live in the real world". It's rather easy to believe that when at least 7 trained clincians have seen me about this and said the same thing.

I think I get where you're coming from mate. And I'm not saying you have a specific heart problem right at this moment - I'm not a doctor, and I shan't venture to diagnose you over the internet, as I'm sure you can appreciate

Rather, what I've been trying to get across is that you're at high risk of developing something serious, from a range of potential issues, because you appear particularly sensitive to the inotropic (BP) and chronotropic (heart rate) effect of amphetamines - moreso than many other people. Those risks keep increasing because you keep overdosing on stimulants.

Now you could keep pushing your heart like this for years without a more serious incident occurring. Or you could end up hospitalised as early as tomorrow. But either way, it doesn't guarantee your heart and cardiovascular system are fine. It only takes one bad trip and it's game over. You have to ask yourself if that's a risk you're honestly willing to keep taking?

That's all really. We can't do anything more than give you some insight into what you may be risking healthwise, to try and instill some caution. It's up to you if you want to follow or ignore that advice. What I wish is that you'd discuss this with your rehab people. You wouldn't be the first to cheat their tests, and they will want to help you get better. Of course, I appreciate you haven't told them because you'd like to secretly continue doing this. Unfortunately that's the addictive amphetamines taking over

Regarding your EKGs, as I mentioned before most of the long-term chronic harms we've been discussing won't show many signs on an EKG, that's not really what it diagnoses. An EKG picks up any acute issues that might be occurring in that moment with the conductivity of the electrical pulse across the heart, as well as more established/genetic issues. It's not able to diagnose the whole gamut of potential (sometimes less visible) issues we've raised.

Also, like I said before, any doctor or paramedic looking at you while you're high is (a) likely to be unimpressed by (and sometimes unhelpful because of) your drug use, and (b) unlikely to run a batch of expensive tests on the basis of just one or two known cases of abuse. If you told them you're addicted and suffering all those heart problems each time, they may be more inclined to do further tests.

I appreciate you're hoping for a test that will give you complete peace of mind. But are you doing so because you'd like to carry on as you've been doing? I say this because you do already know that what you're doing is risky, or you wouldn't be asking these questions. You wouldn't be worrying about those occasions when your heart goes into Afib and has almost no regular beat. You wouldn't be asking if a heart rate of 220, heart pains, or a BP of 200/100 is risking your health. You wouldn't be calling out ambulances or worrying about whether you're having panic attacks from overdosing. You wouldn't be in rehab for amphetamine addiction.

Do you see what I mean? Deep down I think you already know you're risking your health.

I still think the panic raises fucks me up badly as well. I talked to a friend yesterday and he told me of shooting 2,5 grams at once. Then I got more reassurement that I wont die by taking 1,2 gram if I do it only 1 day.

I don't think this should reassure you. Relying on a friend surviving doesn't validate behaviour which you already know is risky and harmful to you. While he may be ok (for now) with that level of abuse, I think we've established that you're probably not.

As for the panic, I agree you probably do suffer and it has probably had an effect on your heart. But it's not a separate issue - panic and paranoia go hand in hand with amphetamine abuse, and if the outcome of that panic is that it's making your heart even more sensitive, it's an additional risk factor you don't need.

Do you think you could possibly try and discuss these issues and fears with the people where you've having rehab? Even if you're not 100% honest about your current abuse? I get the sense things are increasingly spiraling out of control for you Or maybe I'm wrong. Anyway take care mate.

 

[Psychedalienation]

CFC is 100% correct. All your posts seem to indicate that you sense danger and you know why, but you can't commit to admitting that it's the amphetamines that are causing it. You're doing this simply because, like you said, you want more.

This thread is practically useless at this point. You clearly don't want to stop, your heart health continues to decline, and more and more people worry about you to no avail. Any normal person who is not under the influence or addicted to hard drugs would automatically know that their heart was NOT like this before amphetamine abuse and would cease use.

Can you honestly tell me that your heart was like this before you started using drugs? Who gives a shit if it's the panic that's causing these issues or if it's the drug? They will continue to bother you and put you closer and closer to death as you keep using. What's the difference between dying from a panic attack and amphetamine overdose? At this point, for you, there IS no difference. You will still get anxiety by doing ridiculous doses of amphetamine.

I fear you will stop posting here one day and that will be the end of it for you. It's truly not worth it. You CAN stop. At least take a break. Give your poor heart some room to breathe. Good luck.

 

[keeping]

100% agree with everything that's been said here but let's keep it civil. this is a HR site and getting emotional will only complicate things.
batman; young, strong, trained people do get heart attacks, all the time. please think about what you're putting your body through.