MDMA Recovery (Stories & Support - 5)

[Cotcha Yankinov]

Clonidine is a terrible med lol. It doesn't make you sleepy at all... It just makes your heart beat big and slow... Terrible dry mouth..... nauseous....I took .15 mg and was dry heaving....shit sucks lol. Mirtazapine was much more pleasant

I think most people are going to get sleepy with clonidine, it's not the best for people who already get light headed though

 

[Cotcha Yankinov]

Can Lamictal help re-align the HPA axis?

Difficult to say, or to say if the problem is even the HPA axis or if its something more to do with the cortex/limbic system and not necessarily hormonal regions. There is a bit of clinical evidence here but I'll go over some theoretical stuff down below.

Mood stabilizers do apparently see some use in treating the adverse effects of glucocorticoid therapy but I think that mainly has to do with hypomania and apparently memory issues associated with GC therapy, but maybe depression as well I suppose - see section "Management of glucocorticoid-related neuropsychiatric adverse effects" from here http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/j.1440-1819.2009.02005.x/full

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19906231 - "A decline in declarative and working memory is also reported during corticosteroid therapy. Corticosteroids are associated with changes in the temporal lobe, detected by structural, functional, and spectroscopic imaging. The mood and cognitive symptoms are dose dependent and frequently occur during the first few weeks of therapy.

Other risk factors are not well characterized. Controlled trials suggest that lithium and phenytoin can prevent mood symptoms associated with corticosteroids. Lamotrigine and memantine also have been shown to reverse, at least partially, the declarative memory effects of corticosteroids. "


Now for some theoretical stuff. The mood stabilizers (HDAC inhibitors) are thought to have some portion of modulating gene expression to credit to their efficacy... If we look at the effect of HDAC inhibtion on glucocorticoid receptor function we can guess a little bit..

The evidence is convoluted as always (arguments on both sides) but there is some evidence that HDAC inhibitors may help restore the function of GC receptors

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/24895125
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5234142/ - "Maternal separation also reduced the expression of GR and upregulated the methylation levels of the promoter region of GR exon 17, and such effects were reversed by treatment with the histone deacetylase inhibitor trichostatin A (TSA) in adult rats.

Moreover, TSA treatment in adult maternal separation rats inhibited the overactivation of astrocyte intracellular NF-κB signaling and the release of cytokines and alleviated cognitive dysfunction after sevoflurane anesthesia."

So in that case, HDAC inhibitors have an anti-inflammatory and pro-GC receptor restorative effect.

 

[Cotcha Yankinov]

What should I say to my neurologist to get lamactil prescribed

I think these kinds of questions are frowned upon at bluelight, but anyways, often times doctors don't like to give out meds "off-label" - that is to say that lamotrigine is FDA approved for epilepsy and bipolar, and to prescribe it for another condition could be off-label and some doctors try to avoid that unless there is evidence showing e.g. lamotrigine works for whatever condition.

 

[LTCsufferer]

Thanks for posting! I've actually been wondering about the hormonal theories of the LTC and whether girls would get increased/decreased symptoms during their period due to the progesterone-estradiol fluctuations that modulate GABA and 5-HT.

Hormonal birth control actually impacted me the worst. I was close to recovered and then I got a nexplanon implant, and had a major set back. It zaped my sex drive entirely and made me an emotionless zombie. I still dont feel as recovered as I did before the implant, even though I had it removed 6 months ago. I never had problems with birth control before the ltc.

 

[ADubbs]

Thanks for the reply cotcha regarding FBCs theory on the tingling.... Very informative as always

 

[ADubbs]

Yeah I'm just hoping to get lamactil to get over this final hump.... Getting all the physical symptoms to finally go away. Haven't had an emotional symptoms for a while.... Well more than before all this anyway.

 

[Cotcha Yankinov]

It could be worth it to see a good physical therapist about the head symptoms

 

[Cotcha Yankinov]

Hormonal birth control actually impacted me the worst. I was close to recovered and then I got a nexplanon implant, and had a major set back. It zaped my sex drive entirely and made me an emotionless zombie. I still dont feel as recovered as I did before the implant, even though I had it removed 6 months ago. I never had problems with birth control before the ltc.

I'd say this is good info for other ladies out there, not to fear monger but I'm thinking girls should avoid hormonal contraceptives. I remember reading that some of the hormonal contraceptives can lower serotonin.

 

[ADubbs]

It could be worth it to see a good physical therapist about the head symptoms

Yeah I know it's a neurological thing though... As it went away twice before the third relapse.... But we'll see what the neurologist says next week. I think she thinks since I'm not suffering that bad really and all my vitals are fine I just need to suck it up and deal with it lol.

 

[Cotcha Yankinov]

I wouldn't necessarily treat the head symptoms as things that are 100% unrelated to the peripheral tissues.

As an example, irritation of the peripheral nerves a la mechanical issues could induce inflammation that keeps the cranial nerves from fully recovering.

There was a person who swore they got multiple sclerosis from MDMA, but it seemed more and more that his issues were due to the cranial nerves as I talked to him. It turned out that he did a lot of star gazing the night he took the MDMA - craning his problematic neck upward at the very worst position in terms of irritating the cranial nerves/arteries at the cranio-cervical junction, not to mention the spinal cord and brain stem itself.

Now MDMA has been shown to have some inflammatory effects on the peripheral nerves, but physical causes of inflammation could certainly be contributing, even if not readily identifiable.

Remind me, were you someone who had a setback with 5-HTP?

 

[ADubbs]

I wouldn't necessarily treat the head symptoms as things that are 100% unrelated to the peripheral tissues.

As an example, irritation of the peripheral nerves a la mechanical issues could induce inflammation that keeps the cranial nerves from fully recovering.

There was a person who swore they got multiple sclerosis from MDMA, but it seemed more and more that his issues were due to the cranial nerves as I talked to him. It turned out that he did a lot of star gazing the night he took the MDMA - craning his problematic neck upward at the very worst position in terms of irritating the cranial nerves/arteries at the cranio-cervical junction, not to mention the spinal cord and brain stem itself.

Now MDMA has been shown to have some inflammatory effects on the peripheral nerves, but physical causes of inflammation could certainly be contributing, even if not readily identifiable.

Remind me, were you someone who had a setback with 5-HTP?

No I had one set back drinking and smoking weed heavily for weekend a month after the initial OD when I was almost better with the exception of one small floater I noticed, and waking up sweating and shaking occasionally at night. Then set myself back again by jerking it and taking curcumin. Each set back it was like the initial OD...huge dilated pupils...sweating...anxiety..... extreme peripheral pain....and of course the ridiculous insomnia. Damaged serotonin system....check.

 

[Cotcha Yankinov]

extreme peripheral pain....

Care to expand?

Damaged serotonin system....check.

No no no shhhhhh, all the damage would've occurred pretty rapidly yet you almost recovered afterwards - the issue here is not damage to brain cells (unless you mean "damage" in a non-neurotoxicity sense)

 

[socrilus]

I'd say this is good info for other ladies out there, not to fear monger but I'm thinking girls should avoid hormonal contraceptives. I remember reading that some of the hormonal contraceptives can lower serotonin.

I still think its crazy how so many different prescription meds and rec drugs like MDMA can result in similar LTC-like syndromes.

The worst offenders seem to be Accutane and Finasteride for medication-induced cases.

Ive come to the conclusion that the systems you definitely don't want to inhibit are 5-AR and also don't want to mess with the serotonin system but messing with 5-AR seems to have even greater worse downstream consequences.

 

[Citizen]

Hi everyone!
My name is Matt and this is my first post on this forum.
I have been obsesively lurking for many weeks and hoped that once I recover, I will be able to share my tips with other people who need help.
Unfortunately, I still don't feel as if I recovered and would thus like to share my story and look for some advice.


I'm not feeling the same since my last MDMA usage 7 weeks ago from today (today is 24.08.2017, for those stumbling on this post in the future).


I will keep it short and sweet. I tried MDMA two times, and the second usage fucked me up.


The first time (07.06.2017), I took 150 mg + 50 mg + 30 mg (I waited between the redosings).
It was a nice experience, but my friends had it WAYYY more intense.
I knew you had to wait a few months and shit before using it again, but I was simply too curios. I wanted to feel MDMA in its full potency.
Since I'm a bit larger bloke (193 cm, 100 kg, 13% body fat), I took a single capsule containing 250 mg of mdma with no redosing ~3 weeks later (01.07.2017).
I was with a different group of friends and they all took single doses as well (capusles ranged from 170mg to 190 mg).


We all had a blast. I felt the drug in its full potency. I was overwhelmed with empathy and was sweating like crazy.
It took 80 min to kick in and it lasted for 2 hours.


Two of my friends vomited because they were drinking alcohol as well, but felt fine the days after. Everyone was fine the next week. Except me.


The next week, I felt like shit. I was so slow and useless. I would go to the pharmacy to buy suppliments and forgot what I came from.
I felt like a zombie, living in a world of fog. I felt detached from myself and from the world around me. I was panicking and became paranoid that I ruined myself for life.
I also had strong anxiety attacks. They were the worse when I would lay in bed. I had serious insomnia and slept for 3 hours a night. I had nightmares and suicidal thoughts.
I contemplated if I should just end it all.
Luckily, the insomnia didn't last too long. I got myself some Valium and after a 10mg dose before bed, I was finally able to sleep well after that.
The anxiety and panic was gone as well. I am normally VERY CALM and rational, but I never consumed a substance whose effects I simply did not sleep off.


With time, my DP/DR subsided, but what remained is this lingering sense of being "out of focus". As if a wrestler smashed a steel chair on my head.
My memory, cognition is fine, though I don't feel like socializing while feeling this wierd. After my office work, I go for a run and stay at home (books and PC).


I also noticed that I have a light tinnitus in my ears. I only noticed it a few weeks ago, so I guess it isn't so serious.
But the wierd thing is, I can also feel this strange noise, high pitched but subtle, and it feels as if its comming from my brain. Weird.


I just want to feel normal again. I don't normally do drugs. I tried weed a few times and this is the only time I played with MDMA. Just wanted to try something new before starting to work seriusly (recently graduated).


Tl DR:


-I took 230 mg (spaced doses) of mdma 10 weeks ago and 250 mg (single capusle) 7 weeks ago
-still feeling a bit off, my head is buzzing and I'm somewhat out of focus. I simply notice I AM NO THE SAME.
-tinnitus. Mostly tolerable. I can hear it when I focus on it or when I go to sleep
-cognitive abilities, memory, etc. seem to be fine.
-MRI shows no problems. Neurologist seems to think I'm fine. Ear,throat,nose doctor seems to think that as well.


I'm considering going to a psychiatrist that is a specialist for synthetic drugs.


I exercise, don't smoke, drink little alcohol, take L-tryptophan before bed, together with vitamin C and Omega3 fish oil.


I. Just. Want. To. Be. Normal. Again.


Think I'm never doing this shit again.

 

[MrBlue13]

Hey Matt, I'm with you bud, had the same symptoms after taking large dose, others were not effected. Just sharing my success story, I'm back to normal, hard to pinpoint the time, wasn't weeks, was months, but with time, the fog, the anxiety, the zombie feeling all went away.. Only thing I did was hang with buds, try new activities, sports, etc. Jus know it will pass, does get better eventually, cheers

 

[MrBlue13]

Ps I think I also heard that weird noise as well haha, it goes away

 

[Citizen]

Hey Matt, I'm with you bud, had the same symptoms after taking large dose, others were not effected. Just sharing my success story, I'm back to normal, hard to pinpoint the time, wasn't weeks, was months, but with time, the fog, the anxiety, the zombie feeling all went away.. Only thing I did was hang with buds, try new activities, sports, etc. Jus know it will pass, does get better eventually, cheers

Thanks man I'm glad you are OK! I'm currently also more or less OK, in the sense that I can function normally (no one notices I'm different), but I still yearn to be FULLY normal again. Anyway, you made my day better

Truly sucks that I will be VERY reluctant to take MDMA ever again, since of all the drugs I tried, I actually really liked this one Maybe in the future (at least a year from now), I might try a different dosage. If 150mg was too weak for me, and 250mg too strong. I might go with 190 mg + 80mg redose.

 

[MrBlue13]

No worries! It is strange, people don't notice we are different, it's just all in our head. I remember my only thoughts being why am I not normal yet. Once those thoughts went away after time, I felt normal again. The symptoms did subside of course, the brain fog/tingle being the weirdest, perhaps scariest.

For me at least, never tried it again, don't think I want to go through that comedown again, even though it may never happen.

Other drugs I've experienced have not had this bad comedown. Coke fine, etc. I'm back to mostly just craft beers haha.

 

[shouldvestayedhome]

Hello,

First time posting long time lurker. After reading everyones' stories I am looking for support and adivce from anyone willing to help. I am really scared that I may of permenatly damaged my brain up.

My story starts about two months ago when I did back to back nights of Ecstasy (1pill the first night. 1/2 pill and redosed with another 1/2 the 2nd night). I only used once before about 3 years prior with an untested cap of unknown strength a music festival.

I started developing symptoms of LTC after 3 1/2 weeks since the last dose. I believe a weekend of heavy drinking may have started it. The first few weeks were bad with headaches, fatigue, anxiety, insomnia, cognitive and memory problems etc.

As of right now I been seeing a GP about my symptoms and she assumes it all in my head. She prescribed my 10Mg of Diazepam to help aid my sleep. I fear it may hinder my recovery.

TL:DR
Took some untested/unknown strength pills to nights in a row. Now encountering LTC. Seeking much needed advice from anyone.

Please help me...

- D

 

[daiki]

No worries, you will be fine.