• H&R Moderators: VerbalTruist | cdin | Lil'LinaptkSix

Detox About to do a Kratom Detox

Drink tea, did you order clonidine and gabapentin online? I wish I had of known that lol..

yes, there is a pretty reliable shop that has been around for years. They currently don't take credit cards though. They have lots of clones and are predominantly based in HK. I assume they might get shut down one day, but they've survived quite a long time from what I can tell from various searches, and there are a few others around that seem less trustworthy and with less anecdotal vouching. Legit branded meds including lyrica and sun pharma etc, whatever, you name it. They do not really sell narcotics though, that is for a different type of vendor.
 
I'm quite cautious about using quinine and clonidine as I've never used them before. I have also started to feel more cautious in general with these cocktails as I have noticed myself using upto 5 or 6 substances a day at times, some with multiple alkaloid profiles. I don't want to one day discover I create a bomb inside myself by accident and my heart blows up. It was actually the mega-dose vitamin C that scared me the most recently... I thought I was getting a blood clot! Nonetheless, my tolerance is dropping quite fast.

Next in the experiments will be clonidine or quinine, then after that memantine on another day. Then I will try a week of ultra low dose Naltrexone and kratom alone, with nothing else. That will be the most interesting, and scary.


how strong is quinine and/or clonidine at potentiating?
 
Random Pieces of Advice TL:DR LOPERAMIDE!

Don't worry about "bombing". I worked as a mental health worker with psychiatric patients who routinely and chronically took complicated drug cocktails. In the nootropic world it's called "stacking". If two or more substances don't create an immediate reaction, chances of hidden slow reaction are infinitesimal. You'll be okay. I took Memantine with a small bit of Adderall XR 15mg, Bupropion XL 300mg, and 10grams kratom per day. Memantine kept my Adderall tolerance low, but I believe it also kept my kratom tolerance low! It may not be a good idea to take Memantine while tapering, I'd wait til afterwards. Memantine has been shown to keep tolerance to opioids low (I think the study was done on elderly people, because Memantine is an Alzheimer's treatment)
Changing the subject, I wish I could fall asleep on ketamine. The smallest amounts would keep me awake all night, every time. I ended up quitting it (and MXE) altogether. I really like Tianeptine (and I've tried multiple examples of every class of antidepressant). I don't like lithium carbonate. Lithium Oratate and Asparate are non-perscription in the US and much more bioavailable. I've heard Akuamma is a waste. What you haven't mentioned is IMMODIUM anti-diarrhea (Loperamide Hydrochloride) Loperamide is an opioid that does not cross the brain-blood barrier. It helps immensely with restless legs. Of course you have to take much larger doses than recommended for diarrhea. I'd take 6-10 pills (I'm not sure how much liquid would work). It works for opioid withdrawals. It's a godsend really.
 
Don't worry about "bombing". I worked as a mental health worker with psychiatric patients who routinely and chronically took complicated drug cocktails. In the nootropic world it's called "stacking". If two or more substances don't create an immediate reaction, chances of hidden slow reaction are infinitesimal. You'll be okay. I took Memantine with a small bit of Adderall XR 15mg, Bupropion XL 300mg, and 10grams kratom per day. Memantine kept my Adderall tolerance low, but I believe it also kept my kratom tolerance low! It may not be a good idea to take Memantine while tapering, I'd wait til afterwards. Memantine has been shown to keep tolerance to opioids low (I think the study was done on elderly people, because Memantine is an Alzheimer's treatment)
Changing the subject, I wish I could fall asleep on ketamine. The smallest amounts would keep me awake all night, every time. I ended up quitting it (and MXE) altogether. I really like Tianeptine (and I've tried multiple examples of every class of antidepressant). I don't like lithium carbonate. Lithium Oratate and Asparate are non-perscription in the US and much more bioavailable. I've heard Akuamma is a waste. What you haven't mentioned is IMMODIUM anti-diarrhea (Loperamide Hydrochloride) Loperamide is an opioid that does not cross the brain-blood barrier. It helps immensely with restless legs. Of course you have to take much larger doses than recommended for diarrhea. I'd take 6-10 pills (I'm not sure how much liquid would work). It works for opioid withdrawals. It's a godsend really.

QUININE - a strange new feeling for kratom (and reply to above quote)

thanks for that. I have fucked around with polydrugs for years and never given it a thought, but lately I've developed a new and reasonable caution. Especially buying random pharma drugs on the internet. It's hard to know for sure if they are legit. The are nicely labelled and packaged from legitimate companies so I think all is well. I also binged on a bunch strong stuff a couple months ago, and had 4 OD type moments despite thinking I was always starting slow and being cautious, the strength of the products took my by surprise each time (search my first post for a stupid story about crack on last Christmas day).

Today is the quinine experiment. 300mg on top of fatty food meal, and then half an hour later I took 3 teaspoons of kratom, 7.5g. Due to life pressures recently my taper plan is non existent, and have toyed with many substances today including small dose dex, 7.5mg, caffeine, nicotine, rhodiola, theanine, DLPA and 2 teaspoons of kratom earlier, 5g, plus one 30mg DHC sublingual.

But now I have taken the 300mg quinine and the 3 teaspoons, and I can tell you it's extremely strange. I feel very nicely relaxed, I had a warm body buzz sensation when the quinine first started to hit, and I think that may have something to do with some loperamide in my system from yesterday (only about 6mg). But I felt a tingle in my left leg, which has been tense of late, and then generally relaxed.

Now the Kratom is kicking in, but the nature of the buzz is totally changed. It is as though the quinine is inhibiting one of the alkaloids but not the others. I can't call this potentiation. The problem is that I was up til 5am writing a document and then I have used all these other things, including opium yesterday, and I'm on 4 hours sleep. So my usual effects will be different anyway.


RE @Mr.Dopamine:

I have mentioned loperamide in my page 2 post with my original drugs list... :) I have used it a lot. At doses of around 24mg it massively potentiates my kratom buzz and makes it quite a strong opiate. It's also good for stopping the restless legs etc. BUT, it doesn't lower tolerance, it increases it. So it's kind of a last resort drug now I realise. ... then I started to change the thread into a bigger experiment. I am now purchasing a few nootropics, and some ibogaine (for microdosing experiments too :) ) I think Aniracetam sounds promising, and IDRA 21 or NSI 189. Anything that might help rebuild my poor traumatised hippocampus will be a godsend. It has been attacked with PTSD like anxiety for some years now so I expect is like a shrivelled raisin, lol.

part of the reason I'm accumulating all of this is I'm having a financial crisis, so my credit is about to go to zero. So I have to get what I can while I can before I go into bankruptcy - twisted logic I know but if anything helps me from what I buy, I will be glad for the tools to boost myself out of this mess. Get out of the rock bottom off the back of a rocket (or bomb), instead of dwelling in shit and post WD misery.

I have enough memantine to try it with the taper, or afterwards. I have 100 x 10mg :)

I have high hopes for tianeptine, for a possible long term medication too, perhaps cycling between a couple of options with some break weeks. But I read some theorising that tianeptine does not increase tolerance over time, so ... we shall see :)


signing off for today, still got crazy life problems fucking with my plans. Tmrw I will try clonide for the first time, and I will try and wait until I am in WD to see how it helps.



PS - I really will try to tidy this thread up at some point, to consolidate all my findings and bring out the facts from the emotional subjective messy stuff, but for now if you are reading - it's gonna be a mess for a while longer yet ;)
 
I love this thread DTLC! It's definitely all over the place, but you've really put a lot of time and effort into it and I really enjoy reading it. Keep up the good work, both here and as you continue making progress working on yourself!

p.s. No rush cleaning the thread up. Progress, not perfection ;) Plus, gawd, you should see some of the other craziness around BL. This is nothing. If you just keep plugging away it will end up making more sense the larger it gets. The law of large numbers or something or other :)
 
I love this thread DTLC! It's definitely all over the place, but you've really put a lot of time and effort into it and I really enjoy reading it. Keep up the good work, both here and as you continue making progress working on yourself!

p.s. No rush cleaning the thread up. Progress, not perfection ;) Plus, gawd, you should see some of the other craziness around BL. This is nothing. If you just keep plugging away it will end up making more sense the larger it gets. The law of large numbers or something or other :)

;)

yeah, I just wrote a 20,000 word psych assessment and personal history type document for a kind of legal issue. Man... that was hard and messy too. One of the hardest things I've ever done I think. But it's taught me a lot about myself and what I have learned in recent years. To write it down means you have to make structure, and to find structure gives meaning and sense to things that often make no sense at all. I heard today, a film director say something like "genre does not exist" - it just exists to try to make sense of something to communicate it. When you communicate it to someone else, you are also communicating with yourself too. You might have thought something all along, but because you never put it into words it just didn't have any meaning yet.

I have a feeling writing this thread will help too in the end, despite the pressure I feel from it and my current lack of concrete direction. If I can make sense of it by the end, it will be great I think. Starting to get some ideas about what to do with it.
 
Hey you, yeah....YOU. I know what you're going through. And I will tell you how it ends. I am a 25 year old girl and I spent the last 7 years on and off of any type of narcotics. I'm free...let me tell you how this feels. First, let me warn you.
Getting on drugs will give you the single most difficult, painful, soul-crushing experience in your life....soon or later. You've never experienced completely LOSING yourself and all form of life and hope like you will if you take for just one more day. Because one more day is just a precursor to an endless number of one more days. I know you don't believe me....I know you think you have control....I know you've heard that before....but you don't....and you won't. Because if you take for one more day thinking you can stop tomorrow....tomorrow never comes. Because why would you wake up and choose to stop taking when you could just choose to do it "one more time"....to feel good today instead of bad. You won't. Don't tell me you will.
You might find yourself 7 years later and talking to your sister about how she gets the same high, happy, "all is good in the world" feeling without any drugs, as I do with them....and not be able to for one micro-second wrap your head around that idea or remember what that was like, or if you have even experienced that before. Because in the blink of an eye....you lose control....and you forget. And you look back and all you can remember is being unhappy without drugs...we can't seem to remember any joy we actually did feel...that's because the drug will refrain to give you any reason to let go of it.
So here I was....7 years later....after endless nights of crying and asking God to help me stop...but waking up the next day to choose to take something because why wouldn't you choose happiness if it came in an easy to take form? You would. And then it wears off and at night you find yourself crying and feeling the weighted blanket of shame covering your eyes all over again. But you live to quit another day. Tomorrow? Keep telling yourself that.

After talking with my sister about her joy and me not being able to fathom feeling it without drugs....I came to the end....I decided that I will never stop if I don't just do it NOW and choose to never look back. Am I ready? No. We will never be ready.
I needed to remember how that felt....it really was possible to feel joy and happiness like I do now without habitually taking something right before? I don't get it and it made my brain hurt and my heart ache that I couldn't grasp this. I really am not normal anymore.

So I stopped. Cold turkey.
I just decided that I am going to suffer....because if I don't feel the pain I need to feel from 7 years of drug use than I will never be terrified enough of returning. So I did...I didn't occupy my mind with other things to get it off of the withdrawals, no....I took it all in. Every restless leg jerk at 4am, every anxiety-ridden thought, every tear. And I just prepared myself for the worst....and somehow....that made it easier....
But cut to 6 days later. In the past withdrawals took about 3 days and on the third day it was either the worst and gone the next day or already gone completely. I think it's because in my mind I always had that blanket of drugs to run back to because I never fully committed myself to stopping for good.
But not this time....it's day 6 and for the past few days I gradually began feeling nothing.....just....nothing. And by nothing you're probably thinking...that doesn't sound all that bad. We hear in songs all of the time about feeling nothing and it somehow sounds attractive almost. But no...it's not. It's not at all what you imagine it to be like.
Imagine opening up your eyes in the morning to a feeling of complete apathy towards life. You have absolutely no desire and no motivation to get up. You look out of your window and all you can see is death...decay...surrounding and in everything. You feel no life. Nothing. Nothing except this hollow, empty, hungry feeling in your chest and gut that is driving you to the point of insanity.
Insanity? No....that's not actually all that attractive either.
I had NO idea who I was anymore...I didn't just feel nothing....I WAS nothing. There was not an ounce of life or juice or anything inside of me worth going on and worth fighting for. Why did I fight? I had no other choice. I decided drugs were not an option. And honestly....at this point....the only desire stronger than the idea of taking something to make this all go away....was the desire to just die.
And stop fighting.
But I just decided that wasn't an option either.
So on day 6....I lost all hope. I thought that I lost all hope on day 4.....but day 6 was a reminder that I did have a shred of hope still hiding in me somewhere on day 4. Now I have found out what it's like to ACTUALLY lose all hope.
Withdrawals are lasting too long this time and not even a shred of happiness has entered my lifeless being in the past 6 days. My brain just stopped producing ANY good chemicals. The brain heals right? Well when the spirit is broken....you'll start to lose faith in that too.
I just accepted that this was it for me. I am probably going to feel this for the rest of my life. And it's not that I'm okay with it....but I guess I just developed this coping mechanism in the past 6 days of suffering.... that was that, I accept this. I hate it. I hate me. But I'll go on. I gave myself no other choices.
I went to bed on day 6 feeling COMPLETE hopelessness.....really and truly weighing the idea that is it worth living anymore.....I had absolutely no idea that I would wake up the next morning and feel that first BURST of joy inside of my chest. It was more powerful and satisfying than I ever imagined it to be. I began waking up each day....deciding to get up and take a bath, get dressed, do whatever....simply because the idea of doing that made me feel good. I never ever imagined that I would feel this way or get to know what this feels like again after completely losing myself to drugs. But I did.
I truly believe that sometimes with withdrawals we need to hit COMPLETE rock bottom before there's no where else to go but up. So if you are feeling absolutely hopeless and like "will this ever end if so....when".....well, if you're as far down as you can possibly go, than probably tomorrow.
But you have to hit that.
The worse that you feel, the closer you are. And just know...you won't encounter anything that you really can't handle. We as humans developed a way of coping with anything. You will survive. So lose hope. But at the same time...don't.
Don't listen to anybody's stories online about how it took them weeks or months to recover....
It's all about how quickly you hit that rock bottom. So that you can fly again. And you might not be able to remember what that feels like....but you will. And just in time. Not a second too late.
It's worth it.

-- kratom was one thing I would turn to periodically and got stuck on many times and I can honestly say that it is no different than what I experienced with hydrocodone or some hard opiate. It takes you over just as easily and just as strong. Youll need it to function. And withdrawals are not any easier than anything else.

OK - HERE IS MY REPLY. I wrote it a few days ago and just can't bring myself to check it so maybe it needs work. (I just finished writing 20,000 words so NOT NOW, but I didn't want to NOT reply)

I can only laugh at my first reply above:

"I will read fully and slowly and reply tmrw with my own wall no doubt"

tmrw, tmrw, tmrw. Yeah you got me there...

You make good points, and I don't disagree in general. But I do disagree with the idea of punishing oneself through cold turkey just to feel the pain. The trauma that can come with sudden withdrawal is damaging, and with some drugs it's life threatening. Cessation of drugs is only half the battle, I've been in AA meetings and rehabs time and again where drugs are demonised and blamed for all the shit they've done but the people in the meeting are still just as fucked as they were when they were using drugs. "My addict does this", "My addict did that" is thrown around as though it wasn't even them who was behaving that way all along. You talk about how you woke up and enjoyed doing things - that is a brilliant point. You talk about your Sister, or anyone who might find joy through living life without drugs - that is a brilliant point. People who have healthy habits and behaviours will feel more joy and be less likely to take drugs to fill the void. But:

You can have a drug "addict" who has a joy filled life, because they live well and have healthy habits, behaviours and routines and goals and dreams.

You can have a "sober" person, whose life is as corrupted and hopeless as that of a true addict.

You can have "normal" Joe or Jane who work 9-5 and have 3 kids and a dog, but they are addicted to prescription medication but believe that they are somehow better or different than a heroin addict or a meth addict. They are different, but they are also not in principle if we look through the lens of a purely physical addiction. Amphetamines are one of the most reviled drugs in the USA, and simultaneously one of the most prescribed. To children even. Heroin is one of the most reviled drugs, again, it's brothers and sisters are among the most prescribed medications. Heroin was marketed by Bayer as a harmless addiction cure for morphine back in the day... How can we imagine things are different now.

Drugs aren't demons, they are (generally) inert compounds sitting around like salt or minerals waiting for something to be done with them. Then we put them inside ourselves and start behaving differently. When they start to cause us more pain that good, then we might start to behave even more differently and the term "addict" might get used. Or perhaps the opposite - and then we can call them medicine. But is a medicated person not an addict? I will always say drugs are tools, they are double edged swords. Or knives. You can cut up your food with a knife and feed yourself, or you can intentionally cut your wrists, or even just slip and hurt yourself by accident.

So, this confusion and the help that I have found when taking drugs leads me to believe I should not beat myself up for what I am doing at this time. But I should have caution, and I should notice when the behaviour starts to get negative or dangerous and might affect others around me. Right now, my priority is to get my behaviour right, to find out what works and what doesn't to lead a productive and constructive and happy life, drugs or no drugs, doesn't matter either way. And, rule no.1, to make sure I never ever sell my mums TV for crack. At this stage I still believe emotional problems and bad behaviour came first for me, drugs were a symptom in my opinion. But that's a chicken and egg argument and it doesn't matter now. I do know, however, that I've lived sober and been more fucked up in the head than on drugs several times.

The best paradox is when I'm in pain and misery and despair and hopelessness, too scared to interact with my friends, too depressed to move daily and I'm multiple months sober - and then my Mum says "I think you should consider taking medication". Take prescription medication from a pharmaceutical industry in a capitalist society with major conflicts of interest, but don't take any other drugs.... no no no, because they are the demons. At the same time, my mum is on prozac and still gets down, and wouldn't understand my point of view at all. She has terrible back pain - I really want to tell her what I know about kratom and other things. But this attitude about drugs I think can be counter productive for discussion.

I say all this because I see you have talked about your demons with drugs. I know and have felt drugs take me to demonic places. But it was always my behaviour that got me there, not the drug itself. I have had demons with drugs - but I believe that they are also sometimes angels. So it's hard for me to think about them in that way. There is so much I would say about this, but I am writing a lot and I don't actually want to disagree with you. I'm glad you posted. Maybe I need to realise that my demons might still be yet to come, and my behaviour will take me there to find out the truth that I might be avoiding. In general though - I think these types of differing view are always both correct. Your story is so important, and I think my view is important too and that's why I'm writing it out like this.

But yeah, I'm an opiate addict now (at the very least a physically addicted one) and it's hard to come to terms with that and realise just how complex the kratom addiction is. I fell into the trap of thinking it was between codeine and caffeine - not so bad. I'm not behaving too well atm, but I'm also not behaving too badly at the moment. I have shades of moderation, I have days of joy, I have some income. Maybe I haven't hit my rock bottom yet, but I certainly got low enough recently to decide I want to get physical control back so that then I can start to figure out how to deal with the mental health and emotional problems from a neutral ground. So tmrw, I will continue figuring out how I'm going to do that. That's more important to me than a life of devout sobriety. IMO sobriety will come naturally once one has a decent life that they don't want to sacrifice. And in the words of someone wise on here "sobriety is a state of mind".

Whatever I've written here that doesn't chime with you, sorry about that. I do appreciate your reality check - it has already been just over a year of using kratom and I am getting more into stronger opiates. It's undeniable. It won't become 7 years of continual use. Of that I am certain. But I may at some point design a protocol around safe and non addictive drug use that allows me to understand what the limits are, and always reminds me where the watch out for the demons in behaviour. If you can manage rules and delayed gratification, then you can live life as a happy "addict", or just a person who uses drugs from time to time. I know I am in the grey zone. I still don't believe I'm a true addict of the most hardcore. But I am without doubt an obsessive. Sooner or later I will become obsessed with success and happiness and I won't stop until I get there. I've done it before and I'll do it again, and hopefully it won't be by going to the darkest depths to terrifying myself forward, hopefully I can do it with will, caution, intelligence and wisdom. Hopefully. But probably a touch of insanity and denial to go in there too. As I said above - I think these types of differing view are always both correct. It's like the left vs right arguments, or the liberal vs conservative... no one can be right, the argument goes on forever. So - everyone is always right, and everyone is always wrong. Such with addiction and control and everything that goes with it.

I found when I gave up cigarettes there was an important lesson on what was needed to stop a physical addiction. It took my some time to discover how disgusting a habit it was and to grow to hate the taste and to remember the negative feelings and not just the positives. You have to dislike the thing enough to want to stop. You don't have to traumatise yourself to find that. I believe that part of the demonisation of drugs is a coping strategy in order to forget the positives and I think it serves well in some ways. But it's not realistic or prudent all the time IMO. I'm starting to dislike kratom and opiates in general just enough now to see it through. But there will certainly be a few more weeks of tomorrows and no cold turkey trauma in my plan I'm afraid. I hope I can see it through in my way, to share a new choice for a better behaved way of life, whatever that means about drugs, I don't really quite know yet.

Best wishes
 
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fallen on hard times, some interesting tales of woe and wonder, shall rise from the ashes once again with a...


new plan
 
Going through something similar DTLC, how are you doing? Reach out if you need someone to talk to. I've been there and done that, so if you need to vent or talk or whatever just holler.

Good luck.
 
Don't worry about "bombing". I worked as a mental health worker with psychiatric patients who routinely and chronically took complicated drug cocktails.

So in the end I took a complicated cocktail when I was experimenting, and basically overdosed. Had heart problems and major gastro problems for days - I guess you could say I caused an accidental toxic interaction. I remembered this post when I was in hospital but I remembered it was you worked in A&E and regularly saw people come in who had made their heart into a bomb ;) ... I laughed at the irony of the situation, but also was reassured by remembering this post, even if it was semi incorrectly.
 
What's up DTLC?

So, there were a couple of off days leading upto what I explain next. I guess you could say I saw where I was heading. I got a bit obsessed with experimenting with drugs just out of interest. I kind of felt like after the detox I was not going to have the opportunity to use drugs again for a while in this way.

I ended up poisoning myself and going to hospital, basically

now I'm mostly clean, clean of kratom and opiates anyways
 
So, there were a couple of off days leading upto what I explain next. I guess you could say I saw where I was heading. I got a bit obsessed with experimenting with drugs just out of interest. I kind of felt like after the detox I was not going to have the opportunity to use drugs again for a while in this way.

I ended up poisoning myself and going to hospital, basically

now I'm mostly clean, clean of kratom and opiates anyways

Oh man DTLC, I'm glad to hear you are okay now! Please take good care of yourself, but also try not to beat yourself up for slipping or not being otherwise perfect. Shit happens, and what really matters is that you are okay!

Now go wash yourself with some soap ;) :p <3
 
Day end - detox over

Hey Guys,

So I ended up taking a toxic drug combo by accident and went to hospital. Don't worry, this was in the UK so we have national health ;) ...I got to experience first hand the true nature of the cuts and weekend A&E problems with our health service at the moment.

I thought I was going to die, first time round on the first night, and then 24 hours later after I'd been to and from the hospital once already and not got any better and actually got worse. Luckily my dad's a Dr and he talked me round and helped me out a lot to and from the hospital, even if he's not an A&E Dr.

On the night of Thurs 9th in the UK, I took a combo something like:

Kratom roughly - 7.5 - 10g
Morphine - tried to smoke about 30mg in a vaping cig, didn't really work
Amphetamine - roughly about 30 - 60mg or so
(I think 10-20mg memantine at the start of the day perhaps)
Heroin - roughly 30-50mg of 50-70% purity
Promethazine - 25mg
Loperamide - 4mg
Quinine - 300mg
Possibly some DHC and other bits and bobs

I then took some Codeine, maybe about 120-240mg, I can't remember. I took this roughly about 15 mins after the Quinine, and had been taking everything else slowly throughout the eve and was not overly buzzing.

I might have taken some Kava, and I also had been sniffing Theanine, vaping Nicotine, had taken some DLPA, Magnesium, maybe a Ranitidine, not sure. Maybe a tiny bit of Rhodiola, and some Tyrosine. I was feeling very productive and relaxed leading upto the Quinine/Codeine.

Later I took Naltrexone and Propranolol

The day before I had taken opium I think, I really can't remember now actually. The main thing is I was still processing some other drugs from the previous day too.

I must have then overloaded my liver with the Loperamide, Quinine, Promethazine, and possible Ranitidine interactions. I started to get these very powerful buzzes in my head, and when the Quinine first hit I felt a wave of unsteadiness and nausea across my body. I instantly knew with that that there was a problem before it had really settled in. You can kind of see oral dosage issues coming early as they generally take some time to kick in a full effect. Over time the rushing in my head became more powerful, and I was reading different drugs interactions online to know what to expect and perhaps how to counteract it. There was a severe risk warning for Loperamide and Quinine interaction, among other things between other substances. The risk was basically "very highly elevated levels of Loperamide in the blood" - which doesn't sound too scary if you're on 4mg lope. But the other opiates and other potentiators and drugs obviously played some role too. I got extremely worried that the next wave of buzzing that hit my head was going to be my last and I was going to pass out. I hadn't felt anything like that before.

I started nibbling on a Naltrexone tablet to ingest small amounts sublingually to try to lower whatever opiates were in my system, just so that it wasn't an opiate OD. But the buzzing continued. Then I started feeling problems with my heart.

Another interaction listed with the above drugs, can't remember which exactly, was something to do with electrolyte imbalance, low potassium, and irregular heart beats/cardiac arrest. I had a heart murmur in my teens due to messing around with bad E pills etc, my heart isn't exactly perfect. Anyways, the symptom is called "long QT syndrome". Pretty sure I got this too, and can be drug induced. I started nibbling on a Propranolol to deal with this.

So in the end I freaked out, took the full naltrexone, and started going into precipitated withdrawals. Something still wasn't right and I called the ambulance and spent the next 24 hours to and from A&E in the UK. The 2nd time I went back I had to deal with the true extent of the weekend waiting times in the UK NHS on the weekend. We have been having problems recently.


I was admitted for 3 days and diagnosed with:


-Mixed Overdose
-Gastroenteritis (my guts went into shock basically and I couldn't eat for over 3 days. This is largely the fault of the Naltrexone, but my gastric system is pretty weak anyways)
-Derranged LFTS (Liver Function Tests - this is basically the definition of a toxic drug interaction, your liver gets overloaded and can't process stuff fast enough so you get toxic levels of X or Y in your bloodstream that can affect your brain or other organs in different damaging ways)
-Hypercalcemia - possibly because I was eating a lot of Calcium Carbonate, but I had been cutting down. Likely that it's more to do with the drugs than the existing levels of Calcium, but I don't know. Possibly related to below.
-Hypokalemia - low potassium, causing heart issues I believe. Because I couldn't even drink water without being sick I couldn't retain any fluids and my electrolytes went out of whack. Not to mention the drugs effects on the balance of the body in general.


So I went to A&E on the first night, and basically got shouted at and left to sleep. Then went home with Dad. The next day I got worse, and they kept me for a few days to measure my blood, put me on a drip, and take other samples throughout. They basically left me to mend myself, but they gave me a saline drip, which was very important, and then potassium, also important. I just wish they'd given me the potassium earlier on. So I got liquids and perhaps that kept me alive, I don't know exactly how bad it was but I did believe I was going to die at 2 points. Pretty scary. The other scary thing was that they were basically powerless. They couldn't exactly give me anything considering the range of the combo.

I also later, the next day, started to go into Serotonin Syndrome. I couldn't keep my eyes open and my pupils were enormous. I was rushing all over, it was disgusting. The exact antithesis of having opiates my body. Not sure exactly how much this was due to the Naltrexone or due to the combo as a whole. I guess I can assume the Kratom and Amphetamine played a role here perhaps.



There's some more to the story, but I just lost some of it in my clipboard, and also that's enough typing for one day. It was 10 days ago, but still getting strength back. I will write a proper timeline of the days when I log back in later so you can see what this combo did and what taking naltrexone is like as a detox/OD tool...

Right now I'm off opiates, eating OK, and getting 7-8 hours sleep, so nearly back to normal. Still have mild Restless Legs, even after 10 days. Using a little Kava, Cannabis and Diazepam just to keep me sane, but will be off that this coming week. Going to visit my dying Godfather in Denmark in a few days, who's a biochemist and has bone cancer. We can have a good laugh at each other.

Will post again later/tidy this one up when I can
 
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Oh man DTLC, I'm glad to hear you are okay now! Please take good care of yourself, but also try not to beat yourself up for slipping or not being otherwise perfect. Shit happens, and what really matters is that you are okay!

Now go wash yourself with some soap
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hmm, I just wrote a nice long reply but lost it. :(

thanks man, I appreciate it. I will post a proper reply tmrw of what I wanted to say as I need to log off now, ;)

trying to see this more as an opportunity than anything else... so yeah, holding back that regret and rumination so far

I've also had more showers than normal recently too, so very clean all around.
 
I have been reading your posts here ...and I wanted to say I am really glad your ok ...
 
Im sure glad you're ok

Nomasfent said:
I have been reading your posts here ...and I wanted to say I am really glad your ok ...

Thanks guys, I appreciate it. I'm glad I'm OK too.

However, I'm very disappointed that all the work I put into trying to create the perfect detox plan just turned into a big mess of cross interactions and further drug abuse. I get a bit obsessive about things (I believe obsession is basically the definition of addiction), and got a bit carried away experimenting, as I mentioned and is probably very clear by now. It's kind of ironic that it was "just Kratom", but I got embroiled in every single other drug class as I tried to stop the Kratom. There is a certain (perhaps twisted?) logic to it all, but I'll save that for another post perhaps.

I hope people can learn from my mistakes, and possibly take some bits of my plan and adapt them in a safer way. The funny thing is that I've now been through the pure hell of precipitated withdrawals plus other poisonous effects, which was exactly what I was trying to avoid all along - the pain and trauma of a proper withdrawal. But for some reason I'm grateful I have experienced it now, at least once in my life.

I knew that some people specifically would cold turkey just to get it over with, but also to feel the pain so they would remember it. They would punish themselves but also use it as a reason not to go back. I never really agreed with that. But perhaps me trying to do it the soft and easy way was a bad idea, as I would have had preconceptions of control and skillful drug use management - which is what I was aiming for to be honest. Now I don't actually have the inclination to use, even if I was stocked full of drugs in the cupboard I wouldn't touch them. I don't deserve it, some of them make me feel sick when I think of them, and I'm still too weak. It's been nearly 2 weeks and I'm still not at full strength despite being clean and eating well and exercising a little everyday... it's been hard work!

I don't yet believe in sobriety, my philosophy and fundamental opinions about drug use have become way too entrenched in the last few months. Perhaps I will reconsider my angle over time. But as a wise man once said "sobriety is a state of mind". At this point, I am very much sober as fuck and grateful for it.





PS - I said I would write more yesterday, but to be honest just logging in here is kind of emotional, I almost want to put it all behind me and avoid thinking about it. But I will keep posting and making some edits on and off in the coming weeks to try to provide more useful and clear information from my experiences. This diary and this site has been great for clarifying my thoughts, and seeing my madness in action ;) ...gonna write a list at some point of all the drugs, supplements and minerals that were in my possession at the time of the event. It should make some funny reading, I think it's going to be about 30-50 substances long...

Thanks
 
You're a trooper DTLC, I'm glad you are doing better! If logging on causes you too much stress, put it off for when you are feeling better. This is meant to be a supportive, encouraging place, not something that causes you more harm in your life (you got more than your fair share of stuff to deal with, I know!).

That said, continuing to drop on by and update us when you feel up for it would be definitely benefit countless others, plus I am always happy to hear from you :) If there is anything we can do to help, please try and feel free to let us know! Hope you keep up the great work you are doing DTLC <3
 
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