Detox About to do a Kratom Detox

[Drink_Tea_Love_Cat]

Anyone know why Pregabalin might not be working for me? (Phenibut does not do much for me either, doses upto a gram or so). Tried 300mg on 2 occasions when in WD and felt very little relief.

I will try 450mg or more soon and report back, as I have now acquired some more...

I do wonder, as mentioned, if my GABA system is just broken or abnormal - the effects people report about sociability with these drugs couldn't be further from what I experience. I start to feel like I've taken my first dose of an SSRI or a bad pill, get very uncomfortable, dilated pupils, don't want to be near others in case they see my discomfort or eyes...

 

[the last dose]

I would go higher with the lyrica i have a decent tolerance to benzos i dont notice any cross tolerance to lyrica, im surprised you cant feel 300mgs. I did 300mgs twice a couple hours apart during first day of wds and it wasted me which i really liked the drunkish buzz and wds relief, it should be able to knock down a shitload of your wds, your not on that high of a dose of kratom now. Go up to 450mgs, the best plan would be to save the lyrica for when you jump completely off the kratom it will be your most help then. Maybe slow your kratom ween down some. good luck TLD

 

[Drink_Tea_Love_Cat]

thanks, yeah I'm gonna have to slow down in general I think. So, I will continue to experiment with dosage of Pregabalin. I can't say I didn't exactly feel it, but what I did feel did not really alleviate my WDS or give me any form of a buzz or feeling of wellbeing in any shape. Nor anti anxiety. Will try more and see.




On another note, due to the fact I am picking up one or 2 generic meds, just out of interest I will be adding Bupropion (Wellbutrin), Clonidine, Trazodone, Promethazine and Memantine into the experiment in small doses.

I'm not just acquiring these for the WD taper/detox, but for a variety of reasons including I have been offered them as prescription drugs before for my mental health and I am going to try to use Memantine as a tolerance prevention/reversal agent for both opiates and amphetamines at some point. I have recently been abandoned by my psychiatrist as he's gone on holiday, and to be honest he has zero active listening skills and has consistently failed to help in certain areas, always reverting to his textbook cookie cut out approach rather than try anything novel with me.

I am mindful of the fact that my latest obsession is drugs and neurochemistry. I can only let the obsession run it's course to be honest, when I'm interested in something I can't stop myself. Hopefully some good information will be acquired along the way. Also I'm kind of of the opinion that after this detox, I won't be buying any drugs for a long time so I want to hoard what I might need now... can't argue with that logic... :D

 

[the last dose]

Sounds like a plan, very extensive but then again whatever it takes. Watch out with the trazodone my gp gave it to me for insomnia and first night i took it gave me fucking crazy vivid nightmares.

 

[Jabberwocky]

The clonidine should be helpful, just don't take it long terms. It is great for the one to two weeks it takes to detox, but it can cause rebound hypertension if taken for longer periods of time.

When it comes to withdrawal, I personally find gabapentin to be more helpful than pregabalin for some reason. Can't say why. The fact you aren't benefiting from phenibut isn't too surprising, though it is a shame you're not getting any relief from the pregabalin.

I am curious DTLC, what is keeping you from trying to come off kratom all at once and just treating the acute detox with the comfort meds you have available? Have you ever experienced this before? I apologize if you already explained this.

 

[Drink_Tea_Love_Cat]

Sounds like a plan, very extensive but then again whatever it takes. Watch out with the trazodone my gp gave it to me for insomnia and first night i took it gave me fucking crazy vivid nightmares.

yeah trazadone can cause suicidal thoughts in some - strange side effect. Perhaps the nightmares are related?

The clonidine should be helpful, just don't take it long terms. It is great for the one to two weeks it takes to detox, but it can cause rebound hypertension if taken for longer periods of time.

When it comes to withdrawal, I personally find gabapentin to be more helpful than pregabalin for some reason. Can't say why. The fact you aren't benefiting from phenibut isn't too surprising, though it is a shame you're not getting any relief from the pregabalin.

I am curious DTLC, what is keeping you from trying to come off kratom all at once and just treating the acute detox with the comfort meds you have available? Have you ever experienced this before? I apologize if you already explained this.

yeah only acquiring (if I go through with it) small amounts of each. The main new item was the memantine, as I'm finding ketamine seems to do little for the WDS or tolerance in small doses, just helps get that perspective and having a break from worry and rumination when using high doses. I can experiment with it more, but memantine sounds more promising to be able to use it without just k-holing. I'm getting some of these ideas from a website/blog that has a lot of interesting info on tolerance reduction and opiate potentiators.

what's keeping me is probably a combination of...:

A - fear
B - procrastination (chronic ingrained habits)
C - reasonable and logical caution due to my mental health (that goes with fear, but the fear is less rational)
D - I just want to keep getting high or have the warmth of the crutch, the love hate relationship has not turned enough to hate yet. I'm just doing this because it's been a year, I want control back, and I did have a little suicidal scare while binging on the hard stuff.
E - have not really hit the ultimate low yet perhaps? Every day that goes bye that I use in a stable and safe manner, it is getting easier to put this off. I get further away from the "scare" mentioned above so, easy to forget why I was really starting on that Monday a few weeks ago.
F - I have more kratom than I need after the current detox schedule ends (that's just side detail tbh )
G - a new found fascination, obsession, and addiction to experimenting with all drugs, in particular opiates (this feels like a "Now or Never" type scenario.... I won't get another chance to play with drugs like this for a while, in particular opiates... so as mentioned this is kind of a "long kiss goodbye" or "breakup sex" type behaviour. You know it's bad, but you do it anyway and it's great for a few minutes until it's finally time to say goodbye and then it hurts more than ever).
H - family and health professionals are giving me a bit more leeway than expected, so I'm playing with that time more than I intended before I notice it start to evaporate.
I - I have a kind of a limited set budget and timeframe I can have access to all this stuff, so I'm making use of it before it's gone or runs out - combines with G.

A, C and G are the strongest and most likely reasons.

this week in particular, my tolerance swing was pretty scary... I was on a sustainable 7.5g I thought... but no, it wasn't enough and it felt like too much too soon (see A and C)

procrastinating life plans in general is a really big thing for me too I guess. If I start to be successful in my plans, including this, I literally have my whole life to live and so many many things I have to do, and that's a big responsibility. There's a massive amount of pressure I'm trying to hide from. Just look outside and look at the news - do I really want to go out there and join the race or the fight yet? Can't I just have a bit longer in comfort in the warm?


this is a brainstorm, maybe missed something...

edit: lol, I wrote this in a few mins, holy shit....

 

[Drink_Tea_Love_Cat]

Day 17

DAY 17

10g Kratom, 2.5mg Dex, 200mg, Sam-e, 450mg pregabalin (took 15 mins ago, nothing yet)

10.45PM - Yesterday was such a failure day... I think I'm going to have to restart at 10g on Monday with nothing else next week. Playing around with all this stuff, sleeping patterns, food, supplements is not giving me an objective measure. I have no idea why my tolerance swung so wildly on Day 16, but it was quite scary to have such powerful WDS on what I thought was going to be a stable and smooth transition with some slight discomfort. RLS is my number one hatred. If it starts ruining sleep, then it's game over for everything else.

Today was OK, but pretty much defined by yesterday. Managed to see a friend and get work done, but not enough.

Hope to get to bed with this pregabalin dose tonight with zero RLS and have a proper good sleep and have a good day tmrw. I might give it a few days before returning to the diary as failure feels like shit and so does even slight WDS. Please bear in mind I'm dealing with a lot of other shit at the moment, it's not just about the drugs. If the detox gets in the way of productivity or mental health, the detox takes 2nd or 3rd place at times. Will try to post daily whatever happens but it takes a lot of energy to come on here each day.

Sleep is number one over all recovery tools... Don't mess with my sleep

 

[Drink_Tea_Love_Cat]

RE PREGABALIN: My experiences and thoughts so far, cross post

Do report back. 300mg Phenibut is not an extreme dose. 450mg Pregabalin (Lyrica) is not an extreme dose either. If I don't have a tolerance, 600mg is commonly my dosage, but I occasionally go higher. These drugs, as drugs go, are not particularly toxic or dangerous to the body. I have read of, seen and have partaken in massive binges of all of the Gabapentinoids and have never had any issues from the drug other than occasional myoclonus, which typically can be handled by sitting or laying down.

The biggest issue that seems to present with the use of these drugs is dependence and the resulting withdrawal syndrome, which by all accounts seems to be pretty severe. I've never experienced it, as I use these substances in a binge/relax fashion. The way you're describing the "come up" if you will, on Pregabalin sounds spot on. It comes on kind of slowly compared to a lot of other drugs. In turn, the effects tend to be pretty long-lasting as well.

yeah I have not enjoyed it overall, I can see how it is addictive or could have dependence. I can especially see how it can give you some nasty WDS or discontinuation syndromes. I now believe I felt quite a few adverse effects even on these low doses - see below for more details. BTW I tried doses of 1000mg+ of phenibut not 300mg.

I will probably now just wait until I'm actually off opiates before using it again. I may even have some leftover after I'm clean, so will be able to judge it on it's own then.

I might try one low dose in the daytime, just to see how slow it does actually come on. I used it in the eve 2 - 4 hours prior to sleeping both times now. EDIT: I now remember I did try a daytime dose the other day, and I didn't really feel much at 300mg. I would have to try the 450mg dose I guess.

I have now taken 450mg pregabalin 30 mins ago.

I'm starting to feel like I might possibly know what the deal is. I had a headache earlier... it's gone now. I had RLS all day and all yesterday, maybe gone or going....?? not sure yet. Will only know after trying to sleep. Whatever I'm feeling is very subtle, and 450mg shouldn't exactly be a subtle dose.

Could just be I needed more... but never felt any good from phenibut even in higher doses either way.

Will report back later if I can and if I remember.

REPORTING BACK, MADE A COUPLE OF DISCOVERIES (for myself at least)

-pregabalin fucks with sleep and gives you a disoriented hangover type feeling, especially in higher doses.
-it can potentially adversely affect opiate usage in the days after using if you are on a taper or a set dose and you are particularly disturbed by Restless Leg Syndrome. You may have to use more to get rid of restless legs.
-it does indeed seem to have a mild body buzz, but I was using it as an aid during a kratom taper and when I was on the other side of a dose and coming down and into mild WDS. The primary effect for me was not the presence of a high or a buzz of any sort, but merely the absence of discomfort.
-it also affected my attempts just to get to sleep, in the daytime in particular when I would normally be able to nap.

OK, so I think I get it now. I originally took the 300mg before bed the other day, like a couple of hours before bed. Now I remember, I woke up the next day feeling like I was spinning and I had had a bad sleep.

So after the 450mg, that effect was much stronger this morning. I hated it, especially coupled with the Kratom hangover I wake up with each day. It took a larger than normal dose of kratom to just get me moving, and improve my mood enough to allow me to feel the slight body buzz underneath the kratom from the leftovers of the pregabalin. So, I had that additional body buzz that it seems people like. I may possibly have been more social, I'm really not sure. I was pretty weirded out due to the disorientation. I went into a coffee shop and kind of stumbled around for a while asking for extras and stuff, maybe I wouldn't normally go into that much detail but can't be 100%. Overall it felt like an alcohol hangover, but without the "stewed" feeling. Without the fermented fruit feeling or the nausea/gastro issues.

The main thing that I realised was that after the 300mg earlier this week, it didn't give me much comfort from the mild WDS I was experiencing and in the following 36 hours and possibly 50, I had major restless legs and it really fucked with my kratom taper. I had to take nearly double my intended dose for the day just to quell the RLS. I also found that my sleep was really adversely affected. There's something getting in the way of getting to the sleep part, I can relax, start to drift off, but something is keeping me awake. Then there's also a kind of lying in bed awake feeling, even when you are sleeping. So I may not have entered REM sleep? Not to mention, RLS really fucks with me sleep anyway in particular.


SO MY MAIN DISCOVERY IS, BE VERY WARY OF USING PREGABALIN DURING A TAPER, SAVE IT FOR AFTER YOU "JUMP OFF" AND AFTER YOUR REPLACEMENT THERAPY OR OTHER OPIATE COMFORT MEDS IMO - that is how I will use it from now on anyway

 

[Drink_Tea_Love_Cat]

going to re-write a new plan the next few days.

I'm acquiring more meds, and some tramadol specifically. I have come to realise that tramadol is pretty much the perfect substitution for kratom at the end of the taper due to the adrenaline and serotonin action. DHC and Oxy are both good too as substitutes, but they don't exactly help lower your opiate tolerance. Opium doesn't really work as planned, the stimulating effect get lost somehow, and it's hard to acquire good opium anyway so not something to recommend. Then there's subutex.... but there's no real reason to develop a Subutex habit IMO...

The downside is with my current tramadol tolerance is the dosages are too high and I can hit the max daily dose easily. The question of seizures seems to be a grey area - I remember eating tonnes of tramadol and snorting it about 5 years ago. Doing Coke on top of it and drinking, and later even speed and ketamine. I'm lucky I didn't have a seizure then, I was so ignorant... Anyways, there is something about the NMDA action of tramadol that really helps. I wonder if it will be similar to something like DHC + memantine. That is another option for cycling and lowering tolerance.

 

[Drink_Tea_Love_Cat]

DAY ? (tbc/updated) SEROTONIN SYNDROME DAY

2.5g kratom, 250mg tramadol, 700mg choline bitratate, (semi serotonin syndrome inducing combo?) 20mg Diazepam and just now 240mg DHC and 240mg codeine phosphate (with little effect so far, due to acidic problems mentioned following I believe)


Just wanted to document my flatline/zero success atm just to be honest about it.

I ordered 100 tramadol this week as I found over the weekend it helped, and it has multiple functions that help me in different ways. It's also a good Kratom replacement, and I have a rough idea how to use it in that way. But not practised it yet - as you will see.

Today I took 1 teaspoon of kratom in the morning around 10.30am, that was fine, and then I started to feel achy and WD started to creep in quite early around 12.45. It seems to creep in quite fast at the moment - I think I have a stomach acid problem that is fucking everything up. I was also getting extreme hunger acidic feelings.

so I popped 5 x 50mg tramadol. 250mg. Not an excessive dose, but I obviously didn't realise the context as I gave myself a weak level of serotonin syndrome and got some spasms and restless legs, probably the beginnings of the symptoms one would expect from a seizure.

Last week, I took some opium, some codeine, some morphine. All to take some days off kratom and (I hoped) to lower my kratom dosage. I also used these drugs as I needed to be in good form to get shit done and just wanted that positivity to keep going. Taper and detox took second place as it wrecks my sleep and productivity. I'm also now waiting on agmatine, memantine, and some other helpful meds to really make a new go at this taper. My current regimen has some major flaws. I previously mentioned the problems of loperamide and pregabalin..., Kava would be great if it was longer lasting, but no. And benzos... I treat extremely carefully.

My point is after those heavier opiates, I then switched to tramadol on following days, and it felt just right. NMDA action, stimulant, serotonin. Every base was covered and my head was clear and I was productive. Of course - I hadn't taken kratom properly for about 36 hours I guess. Maybe more. So there was no real cross interaction of serotogenic substances on a large scale.

Yesterday was a Kratom day, and this morning was a Kratom morning. I then took the 250mg tramadol within 3 hours of the kratom dose. It totally fucked me up. I've had to use valium to counter the spasms and the anxiety and restlessesness. 20mg - which is high for me, and still feel nothing but a slight abation of the negative symptoms. I got sweaty, dilated pupils, cold, heart racing - all the symptoms of excess serotonin. I also became overwhelmingly sexually aroused, so had to indulge myself, it was very weird - I just wish I'd had a partner there it would have been much much better.

Last weekend, I had used 200mg easily, and had to top up with codeine. But today, it was an overdose. It was dangerous. I'm very disappointed that I treated this "new" drug in my arsenal without the respect it deserved and I wanted to post the experience as a warning about taking kratom and tramadol too close together. I had also taken 700mg of choline bitratate and eaten a bunch of carbs on top of the trams. That may also have played a factor.

I'm now coming down off the trams and the serotonin saturation. Headache coming in, stomach acid is extremely high again to the point of nausea. This is probably related to my abuse of antacids and over eating carbs with other acidic foods. So my whole system is in flux and so is my headspace and my detox.

I'm going to take some time to stabilise, and to wait for my memantine, quinine, agmatine, low dose naltrexone and some other supports to arrive (hopefully proglumide) before I really resume a proper detox diary. I will post as much as I can, but want to take the pressure off to do the perfect detox so no real daily updates for now. I hate the idea of failure with everyone watching. I will also be changing my diet and stopping antacids because they are really ruining my perception of tolerance and hunger.


So, BE CAREFUL WHEN COMBINING KRATOM AND TRAMADOL - for me it was above 200mg and above 2.5g of strong kratom that led to issues, and I have a tolerance... supplements such as DLPA and Rhodiola and Choline may also all have a role. The first 2 were administered last night, the 2nd this morning. Benzos were probably a life saver to get out of the slight spasms and extreme agitation.

and BE CAREFUL WITH EXCESS USE OF ANTACIDS, it can only lead to rebound acidity, which if you decide to stop the antacids and don't change your diet, will leave you with horrible acidic stomach and a higher tolerance for drugs than you would wish for. That said, I have had stomach acid and other gastro problems for years, but never really understood them. So now is the time to figure that out. Apple Cider Vinegar literally helped the acidic feeling within seconds. At this point I would be unsure when to administer it around drug dosage though.

 

[Redkitty7]

Hey there....just wanted to say I had a friend who made me kratom tea When I was in wd's after smoking heroin ...it really did help until I was sick enough to take subutex. I've since read there are different types of kratom....just curious what kind you're using (tried reading previous posts but couldn't find) I've enjoyed reading so please keep posting!!!!

 

[Drink_Tea_Love_Cat]

Hey there....just wanted to say I had a friend who made me kratom tea When I was in wd's after smoking heroin ...it really did help until I was sick enough to take subutex. I've since read there are different types of kratom....just curious what kind you're using (tried reading previous posts but couldn't find) I've enjoyed reading so please keep posting!!!!

OH, thanks for saying so. I was worried maybe I wasn't contributing somehow. I'm a bit of a perfectionist...

I will start to fill in the blanks when I have more time to keep posting.

I'll list the types I have, and my experiences with other types at some point later.

What I have now is a Green Malay as my main one and what I use as my benchmark for daily use. The thing is, every vendor has "Green Malay", but they are all different. It's like saying "White British". It's not exactly specific, every white British person is going to be at least slightly different. I also have 2 other types, I'll look them up on my vendor website and describe them later.

edit: OK I'm just gonna add this now as it's not hard tbh: I also have one called "Jungle Deep", it's quite weak and mellow. A good evening one alone, or a top up when you don't want the real stimulating variety if you've already had enough. I also have a Red Vein Borneo. These are generally a pretty good strain, they do vary a lot, but they are basically stimulating and mellow staples of the kratom world. White's are more stimulating and feel like they are missing something sometimes. Red Vein Borneo isn't a true Red btw in terms of the high, it's more of a Green but with some red properties. And back to the Green Malay, these types have always been my favourites. Strong, sustained, stimulating. There are some Malay strains that are very very strong and Green. Like a totally different drug almost. I will put that in later with more details and tidy all this shit up too. Hope this helps.

I'll update later on many things, for now I'm kind of being a bit of an addict and playing with other opiates while I still have some time as I wait for my new ingredients and letting the detox take a small back seat and focusing more on other life problems that seem more important to deal with than putting myself in pain with the detox. I believe that instilling a good routine is very important for the detox, and at the moment I don't have a routine as I'm spamming my way through a lot of life tasks with no structure. The best I can do is get up early and get on with what comes my way.

I will need to incorporate all the other tools like exercise, meditation, diet etc to really make the detox work properly. When you get the end, that's when the routine will save you IMO. I have very strong feelings that it's not just about the drugs. It's about everything else, and then the drugs will take care of themselves because your life becomes more important than drugs. If you stop drugs but have nothing else going on, you'll just go back to the drugs, every time.

I will keep posting, and I will make it work and get to the end. I ultimately feel I have the resolve. Just taking a slight detour for now. Once I have my new detox drugs I'll exactly how aggressive I can be at lowering my tolerance, and I'll write myself some new rules to avoid the lack of direction I seem to have fallen into lately.


Sorry this is a bit of a rant here, I'll be more specific later about what I know about types. You can also just google. But first hand experience might be more valuable than the sales pitch on some of the websites out there :D (some of it is just bullshit)

So, thanks again for read, scuse the rant without actually answering your question properly - give me a few days at least and I'll get more info in there about strains etc. Maybe tmrw if I can !

 

[Agirl77]

Hey you, yeah....YOU. I know what you're going through. And I will tell you how it ends. I am a 25 year old girl and I spent the last 7 years on and off of any type of narcotics. I'm free...let me tell you how this feels. First, let me warn you.
Getting on drugs will give you the single most difficult, painful, soul-crushing experience in your life....soon or later. You've never experienced completely LOSING yourself and all form of life and hope like you will if you take for just one more day. Because one more day is just a precursor to an endless number of one more days. I know you don't believe me....I know you think you have control....I know you've heard that before....but you don't....and you won't. Because if you take for one more day thinking you can stop tomorrow....tomorrow never comes. Because why would you wake up and choose to stop taking when you could just choose to do it "one more time"....to feel good today instead of bad. You won't. Don't tell me you will.
You might find yourself 7 years later and talking to your sister about how she gets the same high, happy, "all is good in the world" feeling without any drugs, as I do with them....and not be able to for one micro-second wrap your head around that idea or remember what that was like, or if you have even experienced that before. Because in the blink of an eye....you lose control....and you forget. And you look back and all you can remember is being unhappy without drugs...we can't seem to remember any joy we actually did feel...that's because the drug will refrain to give you any reason to let go of it.
So here I was....7 years later....after endless nights of crying and asking God to help me stop...but waking up the next day to choose to take something because why wouldn't you choose happiness if it came in an easy to take form? You would. And then it wears off and at night you find yourself crying and feeling the weighted blanket of shame covering your eyes all over again. But you live to quit another day. Tomorrow? Keep telling yourself that.

After talking with my sister about her joy and me not being able to fathom feeling it without drugs....I came to the end....I decided that I will never stop if I don't just do it NOW and choose to never look back. Am I ready? No. We will never be ready.
I needed to remember how that felt....it really was possible to feel joy and happiness like I do now without habitually taking something right before? I don't get it and it made my brain hurt and my heart ache that I couldn't grasp this. I really am not normal anymore.

So I stopped. Cold turkey.
I just decided that I am going to suffer....because if I don't feel the pain I need to feel from 7 years of drug use than I will never be terrified enough of returning. So I did...I didn't occupy my mind with other things to get it off of the withdrawals, no....I took it all in. Every restless leg jerk at 4am, every anxiety-ridden thought, every tear. And I just prepared myself for the worst....and somehow....that made it easier....
But cut to 6 days later. In the past withdrawals took about 3 days and on the third day it was either the worst and gone the next day or already gone completely. I think it's because in my mind I always had that blanket of drugs to run back to because I never fully committed myself to stopping for good.
But not this time....it's day 6 and for the past few days I gradually began feeling nothing.....just....nothing. And by nothing you're probably thinking...that doesn't sound all that bad. We hear in songs all of the time about feeling nothing and it somehow sounds attractive almost. But no...it's not. It's not at all what you imagine it to be like.
Imagine opening up your eyes in the morning to a feeling of complete apathy towards life. You have absolutely no desire and no motivation to get up. You look out of your window and all you can see is death...decay...surrounding and in everything. You feel no life. Nothing. Nothing except this hollow, empty, hungry feeling in your chest and gut that is driving you to the point of insanity.
Insanity? No....that's not actually all that attractive either.
I had NO idea who I was anymore...I didn't just feel nothing....I WAS nothing. There was not an ounce of life or juice or anything inside of me worth going on and worth fighting for. Why did I fight? I had no other choice. I decided drugs were not an option. And honestly....at this point....the only desire stronger than the idea of taking something to make this all go away....was the desire to just die.
And stop fighting.
But I just decided that wasn't an option either.
So on day 6....I lost all hope. I thought that I lost all hope on day 4.....but day 6 was a reminder that I did have a shred of hope still hiding in me somewhere on day 4. Now I have found out what it's like to ACTUALLY lose all hope.
Withdrawals are lasting too long this time and not even a shred of happiness has entered my lifeless being in the past 6 days. My brain just stopped producing ANY good chemicals. The brain heals right? Well when the spirit is broken....you'll start to lose faith in that too.
I just accepted that this was it for me. I am probably going to feel this for the rest of my life. And it's not that I'm okay with it....but I guess I just developed this coping mechanism in the past 6 days of suffering.... that was that, I accept this. I hate it. I hate me. But I'll go on. I gave myself no other choices.
I went to bed on day 6 feeling COMPLETE hopelessness.....really and truly weighing the idea that is it worth living anymore.....I had absolutely no idea that I would wake up the next morning and feel that first BURST of joy inside of my chest. It was more powerful and satisfying than I ever imagined it to be. I began waking up each day....deciding to get up and take a bath, get dressed, do whatever....simply because the idea of doing that made me feel good. I never ever imagined that I would feel this way or get to know what this feels like again after completely losing myself to drugs. But I did.
I truly believe that sometimes with withdrawals we need to hit COMPLETE rock bottom before there's no where else to go but up. So if you are feeling absolutely hopeless and like "will this ever end if so....when".....well, if you're as far down as you can possibly go, than probably tomorrow.
But you have to hit that.
The worse that you feel, the closer you are. And just know...you won't encounter anything that you really can't handle. We as humans developed a way of coping with anything. You will survive. So lose hope. But at the same time...don't.
Don't listen to anybody's stories online about how it took them weeks or months to recover....
It's all about how quickly you hit that rock bottom. So that you can fly again. And you might not be able to remember what that feels like....but you will. And just in time. Not a second too late.
It's worth it.


P.s- kratom was one thing I would turn to periodically and got stuck alone many times and I can honestly say that I no different than what's I experienced with hydrocodone or some hard opiate. It takes you over just as easily and just as strong. Youll need it to function. And withdrawals are not any easier than anything else.

 

[Agirl77]

Hey you, yeah....YOU. I know what you're going through. And I will tell you how it ends. I am a 25 year old girl and I spent the last 7 years on and off of any type of narcotics. I'm free...let me tell you how this feels. First, let me warn you.
Getting on drugs will give you the single most difficult, painful, soul-crushing experience in your life....soon or later. You've never experienced completely LOSING yourself and all form of life and hope like you will if you take for just one more day. Because one more day is just a precursor to an endless number of one more days. I know you don't believe me....I know you think you have control....I know you've heard that before....but you don't....and you won't. Because if you take for one more day thinking you can stop tomorrow....tomorrow never comes. Because why would you wake up and choose to stop taking when you could just choose to do it "one more time"....to feel good today instead of bad. You won't. Don't tell me you will.
You might find yourself 7 years later and talking to your sister about how she gets the same high, happy, "all is good in the world" feeling without any drugs, as I do with them....and not be able to for one micro-second wrap your head around that idea or remember what that was like, or if you have even experienced that before. Because in the blink of an eye....you lose control....and you forget. And you look back and all you can remember is being unhappy without drugs...we can't seem to remember any joy we actually did feel...that's because the drug will refrain to give you any reason to let go of it.
So here I was....7 years later....after endless nights of crying and asking God to help me stop...but waking up the next day to choose to take something because why wouldn't you choose happiness if it came in an easy to take form? You would. And then it wears off and at night you find yourself crying and feeling the weighted blanket of shame covering your eyes all over again. But you live to quit another day. Tomorrow? Keep telling yourself that.

After talking with my sister about her joy and me not being able to fathom feeling it without drugs....I came to the end....I decided that I will never stop if I don't just do it NOW and choose to never look back. Am I ready? No. We will never be ready.
I needed to remember how that felt....it really was possible to feel joy and happiness like I do now without habitually taking something right before? I don't get it and it made my brain hurt and my heart ache that I couldn't grasp this. I really am not normal anymore.

So I stopped. Cold turkey.
I just decided that I am going to suffer....because if I don't feel the pain I need to feel from 7 years of drug use than I will never be terrified enough of returning. So I did...I didn't occupy my mind with other things to get it off of the withdrawals, no....I took it all in. Every restless leg jerk at 4am, every anxiety-ridden thought, every tear. And I just prepared myself for the worst....and somehow....that made it easier....
But cut to 6 days later. In the past withdrawals took about 3 days and on the third day it was either the worst and gone the next day or already gone completely. I think it's because in my mind I always had that blanket of drugs to run back to because I never fully committed myself to stopping for good.
But not this time....it's day 6 and for the past few days I gradually began feeling nothing.....just....nothing. And by nothing you're probably thinking...that doesn't sound all that bad. We hear in songs all of the time about feeling nothing and it somehow sounds attractive almost. But no...it's not. It's not at all what you imagine it to be like.
Imagine opening up your eyes in the morning to a feeling of complete apathy towards life. You have absolutely no desire and no motivation to get up. You look out of your window and all you can see is death...decay...surrounding and in everything. You feel no life. Nothing. Nothing except this hollow, empty, hungry feeling in your chest and gut that is driving you to the point of insanity.
Insanity? No....that's not actually all that attractive either.
I had NO idea who I was anymore...I didn't just feel nothing....I WAS nothing. There was not an ounce of life or juice or anything inside of me worth going on and worth fighting for. Why did I fight? I had no other choice. I decided drugs were not an option. And honestly....at this point....the only desire stronger than the idea of taking something to make this all go away....was the desire to just die.
And stop fighting.
But I just decided that wasn't an option either.
So on day 6....I lost all hope. I thought that I lost all hope on day 4.....but day 6 was a reminder that I did have a shred of hope still hiding in me somewhere on day 4. Now I have found out what it's like to ACTUALLY lose all hope.
Withdrawals are lasting too long this time and not even a shred of happiness has entered my lifeless being in the past 6 days. My brain just stopped producing ANY good chemicals. The brain heals right? Well when the spirit is broken....you'll start to lose faith in that too.
I just accepted that this was it for me. I am probably going to feel this for the rest of my life. And it's not that I'm okay with it....but I guess I just developed this coping mechanism in the past 6 days of suffering.... that was that, I accept this. I hate it. I hate me. But I'll go on. I gave myself no other choices.
I went to bed on day 6 feeling COMPLETE hopelessness.....really and truly weighing the idea that is it worth living anymore.....I had absolutely no idea that I would wake up the next morning and feel that first BURST of joy inside of my chest. It was more powerful and satisfying than I ever imagined it to be. I began waking up each day....deciding to get up and take a bath, get dressed, do whatever....simply because the idea of doing that made me feel good. I never ever imagined that I would feel this way or get to know what this feels like again after completely losing myself to drugs. But I did.
I truly believe that sometimes with withdrawals we need to hit COMPLETE rock bottom before there's no where else to go but up. So if you are feeling absolutely hopeless and like "will this ever end if so....when".....well, if you're as far down as you can possibly go, than probably tomorrow.
But you have to hit that.
The worse that you feel, the closer you are. And just know...you won't encounter anything that you really can't handle. We as humans developed a way of coping with anything. You will survive. So lose hope. But at the same time...don't.
Don't listen to anybody's stories online about how it took them weeks or months to recover....
It's all about how quickly you hit that rock bottom. So that you can fly again. And you might not be able to remember what that feels like....but you will. And just in time. Not a second too late.
It's worth it.

-- kratom was one thing I would turn to periodically and got stuck on many times and I can honestly say that it is no different than what I experienced with hydrocodone or some hard opiate. It takes you over just as easily and just as strong. Youll need it to function. And withdrawals are not any easier than anything else.

 

[Drink_Tea_Love_Cat]

Having spent over an hour on drug related threads and such already, I'm just going to say quickly to the above poster. THANKS.

Having written so many walls of text in the last few weeks and couple months, I sometimes feel like I'm an anomaly. So, THANKS FOR WRITING A TRUE WALL OF TEXT, IT MAKES ME FEEL AMONG FRIENDS :D

I will read fully and slowly and reply tmrw with my own wall no doubt, because having just skimmed what you've written, I can finally see that I am truly an opiate addict. There is so much to say about that I don't know where to begin. I am using other opiates more and more now instead of kratom, and I'm probably even about to buy more. The problem is, it's really quite fun at the moment. So I need to stop before I really do go to that bottom. I want to save it, I don't want to ruin it, I don't want to have a 1gram tolerance for morphine or to cry because I start using unsafely.

TBC.... thanks

 

[Drink_Tea_Love_Cat]

wrote a long reply, it got lost

will log in tmrw and see about re-writing it

 

[Drink_Tea_Love_Cat]

experiments continue, I'm not finding the time to post everything in here daily - but you can look at my other posts via my username and history on the forum to see some of the shenanigans I've been up to... Some scary and interesting things have occurred.

I also recieved my "goody bag" in the post today but missed delivery so it's waiting to be picked up, it includes:

Arkamin (Clonidine) - 100mcg (30 Tablets) X 1
Gabapin (Gabapentin) - 400mg (10 Capsules) X 1
Pregabid-75 (Pregabalin) - 75mg (10 Capsules) X 1
Quinin (Quinine Sulphate) - 300mg (10 Tablets) X 2
Ebixa (Memantine) -10mg (100 Tablets) X 1
Lithosun (Lithium Carbonate) - 300mg (10 Tablets) X 1
Nodict (Naltrexone Hydrochloride) - 50mg (10 Tablets) X 1


I am also going to get some Akuamma as it has a natural opiod antagonism and is a close relative of the Kratom family. I think it will be helpful to cycle off.

Also will be getting Tianeptine for it's opiate and anti depressant effects and nootropic effects.

I'm getting a few nootropics, but that's not for here I guess right now.

 

[Drink_Tea_Love_Cat]

MEGA DOSE VIT C and STRANGE TOLERANCE DECREASE TODAY

Last night I took a mega dose of Ester-C - about 4500mg of vit C. I took some ketamine and lay back to enjoy tripping off to sleep.

But then I started to get nasty leg pains which could be related to blood clot, it was scary. But I tried it because I read about people MEGA DOSING on vit C to come off opiates with surprising results. I used the wrong form of vit c, and it didn't help but ruined my nights sleep.


Today, my tolerance was extremely low for some strange reason. I have been messing around with codeine and promethazine quite a bit so didn't really want to post it here as it's not exactly helpful. But my tolerance should be high right now!


Today though, I used some DLPA and then 1 teaspoon of kratom and felt warm all day. It was so strange. I even had to sleep a lot. I think the mega dose of Ester-C had something to do with it. It also has a fair bit of calcium in it, so perhaps that contributed.

This evening, I drank some salts for dehydration - because I was pissing all night on the vit C. Then I drank some Rhodiola and Agmatine and a coffee and a touch of skunk chewed with nicotine gum to get a mild relaxation and high, nothing major. Also sniffed a tiny bit of L-theanine. I find that snorting tiny bits of theanine is actually quite pleasant, helps concentration, wakes you up, and is smoother than snorting any drug I've ever touched. Like soft sweet powder - they should use it as a cut TBH.

I then used 5g of my mildest type of kratom this eve, and I'm actually uncomfortably high... I have a tad too much energy and I'm warm all over.


I think with this enormous arsenal of substances I've accumulated, I may end up tapering as I experiment just as a side effect of the tests.... I doubt I will be able to use large doses without getting sick etc in the coming weeks. I haven't decided yet if I'm going to re-format my entire diary or just keep experimenting as I go and see what happens... I get the feeling now with memantine and low dose naltrexone I could really speed up my tolerance decrease.

 

[Drink_Tea_Love_Cat]

so - I apologise for losing the diary thread, but I think in the end I might discover something more valuable with all of these detox aids. I'm learning so much about brain chemistry at the moment...

and @Agirl77 I will re-read the reply I wrote you and either post it here or PM you. I can't say when yet.... It's just too deep and philosophical to post it now without wanting to check back every 5 mins to see if anyone comments about it.

 

[Sixxam]

Drink tea, did you order clonidine and gabapentin online? I wish I had of known that lol..