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The Argument For Suicide

I say definitely. Here's a post I cleaned up from someone else (can't remember who) that sums it up somewhat: "We here in the first world are supposed to be all about personal freedom. The idea of mastering your own ship is touted as the be all and end all of the strong and courageous and fulfilled human. Fulfilled and free to build our own world rather than follow the crowd, Until it comes to suicide. Then everyone comes up with tons of nonsense about it being cowardly, selfish or just wrong. Yet it is by far and away the ultimate expression of free will. We as a race would rather condemn countless humans to worlds of suffering than just to say "Hey it's your life, do what you will with it and I'll do the same"."
 
My deep feeling about this subject is that... most of the world's moral apprehension about suicide, like it being sin within religion, is not based on God's punishment, but about the hardship that the soul experiences when an ego level event like suicide takes place. The soul is deprived of the completion of its trials, its mission, and so it not only has to start over, it has to also deal with the repercussions of life being lost. The soul directs the mission, some of the earthly faculties, and its level determines what the human life can and cannot perceive; but the human life, the individual, has a degree of free will to fuck up. Suicide is one of those ways.

There is something instinctually hard wired into us, beyond the simple animal body I think, that knows that suicide is not really an out. The only way out, is through. I'm talking about suicide when a person is not terminally ill.

On the other hand, maybe the chosen trials are too difficult, and the personality succumbs through suicide as part of the design, or part of a learning experience. In this case, a different trial will have to be designed.

But I just have this... vague but perceptible instinct, that suicide really fucks up something in progress to such an extent that it takes way longer to fix than if the suicidal person just pushed through. Kind of like how if someone is doing a 5 day experiment in a dark room, and someone comes in and turns the light on, the whole thing is ruined and it has be restarted. In most cases. I'm talking on a soul level... forget human law, it's irrelevant.

All the times I've been direly suicidal, I've had this innate feeling of... don't do it, you'll just have to start all over and get back to this point, so figure it out now. It's not even about reincarnation. I don't know how to describe it.
 
I say definitely. Here's a post I cleaned up from someone else (can't remember who) that sums it up somewhat: "We here in the first world are supposed to be all about personal freedom. The idea of mastering your own ship is touted as the be all and end all of the strong and courageous and fulfilled human. Fulfilled and free to build our own world rather than follow the crowd, Until it comes to suicide. Then everyone comes up with tons of nonsense about it being cowardly, selfish or just wrong. Yet it is by far and away the ultimate expression of free will. We as a race would rather condemn countless humans to worlds of suffering than just to say "Hey it's your life, do what you will with it and I'll do the same"."

Yeah pretty much. Unless that is you adhere to vague spiritual beliefs that have no factual support. I mean look if I want to go that route I'd have to say that suicide is the only positive spiritual act and is ordained as a test by our creator, to see if we have the courage to let go and accept something that terrifies us. That in a world that really doesn't ultimately feel right that one has the courage against all the pressures that are used to pressure us into staying against our true desires to leave a bad deal. It's a test to see if we are ready to move on to a higher level of reality. Just like in the boston marathon there are only a few that are going to place while the rest just don't have what it takes. IMO that's every bit as valid as saying suicide is a cop out.

However since we really don't know one way or another IMO it's up to each person to make his/her own choice with courage or not and fly by the seat of their pants. I'm going for suicide. I figure since I'm so terrified of it that it must be the correct choice like has been true of most things in life I've been afraid of.

I'm sure there a many other valid arguments for suicide.
 
I enjoyed that post very much, Cosmic Trigger, thank you. My argument for suicide would be emotional freedom, which is up to the person and that one person only. Just as it is considered personal freedom to eat that piece of cake if one is feeling down, or have a drink, or go on a unproductive trip to some other country to satisfy some emotional needs. One has to also be free to end their own life if they feel that time after time, their existence proves to be rather tasking, and wish to stop it. Honestly, there are many ways to say it, but personal freedom is what I would say if I were given only two words.

Society should provide euthanasia service (with some regulations, of course). Just as we provide mental help, physical medical help and whatnot to people seeking it. Euthanasia is a part of psychological help, I would say.
 
I don't even know if it needs to be argued for. Just as we have rights which effect how we are able to live, surely we are entitled to choosing the manner and time of our death?

The fact is, none of us had a choice in being born. From one perspective, being born into human consciousness is a difficult and often painful experience which has been forced upon us, it is a violation of otherwise peaceful nothingness. I think that the greatest right a living and suffering organism is entitled to is the ability to free themselves from such suffering at will.

An argument against that could be that life is really short anyway, it most probably only comes once, suffering is relative and much of life is beautiful. I mean, we will all die, this will end for 100% of us regardless of whether we want it to or not. It is inevtible that our living suffering will end; what difference is a few more years of it?
 
:( DECADES of suffering due to trauma/injury/disease/surgical castration and chemotherapy to "treat" said disease...

These things take their toll, not only on me, but my husband of soon to be 36 years.

Pain meds choke my bowel and bladder, literally. I'm not in a legal state to try MMJ...though I'd risk it if someone offered to help me. I don't want to exist in PAIN any more.

My options are exhausted. I need relief from either the pain or the despair. I've reached the "for better or forget it" point.

I don't want to leave my husband behind, but I've only stayed this long for him...not me. I would raise my hand for euthanasia.
 
I enjoyed that post very much, Cosmic Trigger, thank you. My argument for suicide would be emotional freedom, which is up to the person and that one person only. Just as it is considered personal freedom to eat that piece of cake if one is feeling down, or have a drink, or go on a unproductive trip to some other country to satisfy some emotional needs. One has to also be free to end their own life if they feel that time after time, their existence proves to be rather tasking, and wish to stop it. Honestly, there are many ways to say it, but personal freedom is what I would say if I were given only two words.

Society should provide euthanasia service (with some regulations, of course). Just as we provide mental help, physical medical help and whatnot to people seeking it. Euthanasia is a part of psychological help, I would say.

You just reminded me it's time to go get a half gallon of Rocky Road and eat it. I know it's going to kill me but it seems like more fun than a shotgun. However the way I eat that stuff it's going to be just as messy.
 
:( DECADES of suffering due to trauma/injury/disease/surgical castration and chemotherapy to "treat" said disease...

These things take their toll, not only on me, but my husband of soon to be 36 years.

Pain meds choke my bowel and bladder, literally. I'm not in a legal state to try MMJ...though I'd risk it if someone offered to help me. I don't want to exist in PAIN any more.

My options are exhausted. I need relief from either the pain or the despair. I've reached the "for better or forget it" point.

I don't want to leave my husband behind, but I've only stayed this long for him...not me. I would raise my hand for euthanasia.

I'm very sorry about your situation. I know it's all so difficult. This is what I tell myself about leaving someone behind. It's going to happen anyway and there is not one single thing we can do about that. For me I'd rather leave on a good note by my own will than being completely debilitated and in extreme pain. Personally I'm thinking that's going to be harder on my loved ones than me leaving with some dignity, awake and aware and able to communicate with those I love.
 
:! Idaknow, but I'm feeling such ANGER in recent weeks. I know it's irrational, but it's real.

I believe if I could access MMJ, I could "cope" with my pain and maybe even get a brief respite from the darkness.

I'm angry because I don't have the access I need to try MMJ. No one will help me, not even family. I have nieces in Oregon that we practically raised, but No-o-o-o, they won't risk it.

If the rolls were reversed, by God...I'd walk on fire for them.

I don't need perfect, just possible.

On a lighter note...Go for the Rocky Road, CT! Smfh...I've not tolerated dairy since 1987 (projectile vomiting)
 
Is pleasure all there is to life? Can't there be sadness or where would you draw that line?
 
I'd say that in cases like these happiness is all that matters. For me, I don't want a life of no suffering. I think struggle will make me good in the end.
 
Suicide isn't just happiness troubles. It isn't just suffering. It's the contemplation of death in light of selected facts and variables.
 
An argument always put forth against suicide is how it will make loved ones feel. I have no problem with this argument when it is coming from the suicidal person's mind (in other words the personal mental struggle of the person that wants to die who is nonetheless compassionate); I have a big problem with it when people trot it out as a moral issue :" Don't do it! You don't know how much pain it will cause!". It is death and loss that will cause pain and as ct pointed out, this will happen eventually, or at any time, from other causes. Suicide does introduce an added dagger to the agony of loss but it is based on a faulty assumption. The survivors believe that they could have loved better, said the right thing, done the right thing, not done or not said the wrong or inadequate thing etc etc. But this is not pain caused by suicide--this is pain caused by the survivors own minds telling them that they were in control of someone else; that they could fix everything to be wonderful or at least bearable. It is in their minds that their own ability to be more nurtured , or at least amazed, by life than tormented by it is somehow universal. I wish it were, but it is most definitely not.
 
^That's totally true Nixiam. But, what do you think of the idea that the causing grief in the people left behind actually transgresses their freedom too? If I kill myself, I cause suffering to others which they will likely carry until they die; is that an ethical burden to inflict on somebody?

I believe that one of the most compassionate and altruistic things that a person can do is to allow another person, however loved and cherished, to pass away. That is an act of true love IMO. It is selfish to expect another person to live simply so that you will not grieve for their absence; I think that we have an aversion to suicide as we feel it devalues the life we continue to lead, but relegating a sick or tormented person to further suffering devalues the experience of life much, much more.

I'd say that in cases like these happiness is all that matters. For me, I don't want a life of no suffering. I think struggle will make me good in the end.

It's a nice thought, but what if suffering is just inherent, inevitable and meaningless? It seems to be present for most people regardless of their circumstances, and seems to be a lifelong affliction. I'm sceptical as to whether anyone truly learns anything they couldn't have learned in some other way, such as through introspection and application of reason and logic.

Struggling and overcoming adversity might give you strength or resilience but I don't know what is meant by 'good in the end'. The end, to my mind, is death and nothing that you've learned comes with you. Many schools of philosophy and spirituality imply that suffering is inevitable and somehow noble, as in Christianity which upholds ideals of persecution, atonement, punishment amongst other things. I feel like that may be a trick or wishful thinking, I can't see a huge benefit in much of the degradations I have experienced. So, I think the buddhist idea of non-attachment to suffering is more useful; it allows you to accept what you are experiencing and withhold value judgments if it and it lessens the intensity of suffering. For me, its more useful to be aware of the inevitable, and therefore almost impersonal, nature of suffering than to try and determine the lesson it is teaching or the way it will benefit me. On a purely subjective level, if I try and turn pain into something to learn from, I often end up agitated and anxious and angry. But if I focus on the fact that my latest worry will pass (and be replaced) and that worrying will not help me. And what I learn is that suffering will continue regardless but the intensity of my experiencing of it will diminish. You don't need to wait either, it works instantly, sometimes much better than others. :\
 
But, what do you think of the idea that the causing grief in the people left behind actually transgresses their freedom too?

Do you realize what a slippery slope you'd be on if you actually believed and tried acting on that? Every act of living could possible cause grief for someone else. You'd certainly be as good as dead.
 
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