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The Argument For Suicide

It's a big deal in the sense that it's a pretty big gamble for depression's sake. Given enough time you could get better without ending it, which makes it a big deal.
 
No it's not. You're toast anyway. Your life is basically of no importance. You can't hang on to it no matter what and what matter a few more days or years in the end.

I'm guessing here you've never really been seriously depressed. Better dead than a life of suffering. If you want the full spiel then check this out.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8t9HaH7Iiic
 
To me it's cowardly, but I hate to cast judgement, and obviously only walk in my own shoes. I think I would have too take a undecided stance on it, because I could understand the reasoning on certain situations. There's a time and place for everything
 
2minuteSnoots said:
To me it's cowardly, but I hate to cast judgement, and obviously only walk in my own shoes. I think I would have too take a undecided stance on it, because I could understand the reasoning on certain situations. There's a time and place for everything
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Cowardly? What do you base that on actually? IMO it takes tons of courage due to the strong physical instincts for self preservation and all the societal and religious condemnation surrounding the deed. The fear of death is overpowering in most all humans no matter what they say and there is scientific proof of that. Just google Terror Management Theory and educate yourself. Suicide is very very difficult for most people if not impossible. That's why people can be suicidally depressed for decades and never have the courage to actually do the deed. They will suffer terribly year after year and tell everyone they want out yet never have the courage to do the deed. A friend of mine committed suicide several years ago. He'd been depressed for a long long time, I wasn't there but his brother was living with him at the time. He told me that for a week before he killed himself he had a look of terror in his eye all that time. Like a scared animal backed into a corner. He was suffering badly with depression that nothing seemed to be helping with. I knew him, he was no coward. In his better days he took chances and did activities that scared me. No he was no coward but the idea of taking his own life was almost too much for him. I'm sure it took great courage to end a life that he never wanted to give up. He just needed the suffering to end. I admire him. He was a very kind generous and fun loving person in in the past when we were both young. RIP brother.
 
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You should have a say on when and how you want to die. Listen, life can be fucking horrible. We all know that. Life is not just one single horrific car accident that ends your life. If only it were as simple as that. No. Life is a series of bad events leading a person to ultimately commit the final act. As you age, it becomes extremely hard to survive and the pain of living is just too great. Diabetes, Alzheimer, Heart attack, Dementia are only some of the maladies that can accumulate by old age. If you don't die by 90, then you will run out of retirement money. I'm sure that every person who commits suicide considers all the facts before making a commitment. They must think about how great their pain is compared to the damage to their loved ones' reputation if the act is committed. I'm sure in regards to the former, the pain they are facing outweighs the damage to anyone's reputation so that is why they do it. If you commit suicide without thinking about this question, then I'm sorry, I also think your suicide is unwarranted. Usually though, it is because they don't have a goddam choice!
 
I knew a man that killed himself because he couldn't handle being a father, so it has always tweaked my judgement on the issue. But like I said I'm not in someone else's situation so I don't assume there all cowardly, but i know sometimes they are. I dot agree with suicide but I understand it. I just hope I'm never in that position, cuz it leaves your loved ones without any closure what so ever.
 
Yes there are a few arguments for suicide. I would like to preface my response with the admission that I have not (thankfully) lost any family members or friends to suicide, and as such most likely do not have the same outlook on suicide as those who have not been as fortunate do.

I believe the strongest argument for suicide arises when an individual is in such great physical distress that death is a gift rather than curse. E.g. A terminally ill cancer patient, or a person with a similar degenerative and crippling condition.

There is also an argument for suicide in the case of great mental and spiritual anguish. The reason why this is so contentious, I believe, is because mental suffering is so difficult to quantify or objectively measure. For those whom do not and have never experienced the depths of deep, merciless depression and psychic torture, it's virtually incomprehensible to see how "feeling bad" is a "good enough" excuse to take ones own life. For the person suffering, however, the fear that things might never get better is such a debilitating and hopeless emotion that suicide might seem like the only option. The only reason I disagree with suicide for this reason is that even people with extreme mental illness have the potential to contribute good things to others around them and themselves - so rather than saying suicide in such cases is selfish on the part of the suicide-ee, I'm saying it's actually for societies own selfish impulses that suicide is wrong.

Lastly there is the argument for suicide as an act of autonomous expression. Take for example a legistlative system or regime which makes the taking of ones own life illegal - in these cases suicide is the ultimate act of rebellion, the ultimate display of individuality and a symbol for the inability of a man-made system to control people and take away their right to ownership of their bodies and ultimately lives.
 
2minuteSnoots said:
I knew a man that killed himself because he couldn't handle being a father, so it has always tweaked my judgement on the issue. But like I said I'm not in someone else's situation so I don't assume there all cowardly, but i know sometimes they are. I dot agree with suicide but I understand it. I just hope I'm never in that position, cuz it leaves your loved ones without any closure what so ever.
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I told all my loved ones I was going to go out that way so that takes care of the closure shit. They all seemed relieved. lol.
 
infectedmushroom said:
Yes there are a few arguments for suicide. I would like to preface my response with the admission that I have not (thankfully) lost any family members or friends to suicide, and as such most likely do not have the same outlook on suicide as those who have not been as fortunate do.

I believe the strongest argument for suicide arises when an individual is in such great physical distress that death is a gift rather than curse. E.g. A terminally ill cancer patient, or a person with a similar degenerative and crippling condition.

There is also an argument for suicide in the case of great mental and spiritual anguish. The reason why this is so contentious, I believe, is because mental suffering is so difficult to quantify or objectively measure. For those whom do not and have never experienced the depths of deep, merciless depression and psychic torture, it's virtually incomprehensible to see how "feeling bad" is a "good enough" excuse to take ones own life. For the person suffering, however, the fear that things might never get better is such a debilitating and hopeless emotion that suicide might seem like the only option. The only reason I disagree with suicide for this reason is that even people with extreme mental illness have the potential to contribute good things to others around them and themselves - so rather than saying suicide in such cases is selfish on the part of the suicide-ee, I'm saying it's actually for societies own selfish impulses that suicide is wrong.

Lastly there is the argument for suicide as an act of autonomous expression. Take for example a legistlative system or regime which makes the taking of ones own life illegal - in these cases suicide is the ultimate act of rebellion, the ultimate display of individuality and a symbol for the inability of a man-made system to control people and take away their right to ownership of their bodies and ultimately lives.
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Nice post. You've put some thought into it. It's amazing to me that so many people claim that being free is really important. Being American is supposedly so great because we have all this freedom. Until it comes to actually using this freedom to end your life. Then most people seem to turn into some kind of Nazi's about the subject. That's so fucking stupid and laughable that I can hardly believe that these folk really give a shit about freedom. Maybe it's just me but it seems like none of my business what someone else does with their life. I could care less what they do unless they are physically harming someone else.
 
Cosmic Trigger said:
I told all my loved ones I was going to go out that way so that takes care of the closure shit. They all seemed relieved. lol.
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I hope my folks would have a few questions lol but if you didn't thought? Pulled the trigger without anyone ever knowing what was going on, that's what's cowardly to me, not the act, but the seclusion, you don't give the people who would want too help a chance, but shit idk, it's a rough thing, it shouldn't be debated, it needs to be talked about
 
imagine you were in this situation...

you've been seriously depressed for most of your life, been years since you've enjoyed anything, you have no friends and are a constant burden on remaining family (which is only one parent who is exhausted and might not live long) and society in general. you have a chronic, incurable disease, myriad other painful health issues. (brain damage, poor lung capacity, dental issues, problems with your ears, eyes, nose, mouth.)

most people you meet can't stand you (seemingly a glance will ignite the RAGE system) you don't meet many people cause most try to avoid you. the majority of the memories left are the ones you'd like to forget, exhausted all professional services that might have been able to help, broke, jobless, homeless, and it's going to get a lot worse before it gets better.

all things considered would suicide be justified here? i'd say you'd be serving the greater good..

(also, people wont let you volunteer to help others because they find you intolerable and thinks youse up to no good)

thoughts? i know about navel gazing..
 
Sigmond, we know a very different person here than the person you say people can't stand or don't trust. I know a man that is incredibly intelligent, often playful but mostly serious, capable of deep empathy (shown to me on more than one occasion), capable of authentic connection and has the ability to rise above intense suffering of his own to reach out to someone else. I think your isolation is contributing to your depression but I understand how you would not feel much like interacting with people when you are getting 9or perceiving) such negative feedback. But we are real people and we do not see you as anything other than a great contributor and interesting person. I know you through Words, through Second Opinion and through your posts around Bluelight. You are one of my favorite people here. Please do not let your current perceptions trick you into thinking that you have to live with loneliness and depression forever. Online friends are no less friends than IRL.
 
thank you herbavore. i'm very happy and grateful for how i've been treated here.

i didn't say the person was me and would like people to consider if suicide might be acceptable, if not honorable, in that scenario. this isn't tds so people are free to share without fear of censor. i haven't read through this thread in a long time and forget how much of the discussion was focused on "benevolent suicide".
 
Ah, sorry, my mistake (and I'm happy that your theoretic person is very much not you!)

To anyone whose life feels more like suffering than an adventure, though, I would still say the same thing: change your life drastically and give it a chance to breathe.
 
no, not me. my situation is much worse. i had a sense of humor about it until recently. trying to remind myself that it could be an illusion, all in your mind..

hope CT is okay..
 
I PMed him a few days back and got no reply yet. I hope he's good.
 
As a person who has lost someone dear to them i can say suicide is wrong. I get if youre terminally ill and dying anyway. Or old but ending your life out of despair is just too sad. Although we are all free to choose as spiritual beings we owe it to each other to struggle and hang in there forneach other. The despair loss grief guilt confusion and anger we all endured that we survived a war together and our brother who we dearly loved killed himself for a woman was so overwhelming. For anyone reading this thinking about it if You think noone cares you are wrong. Pick up a phone reach out. It was truly one of the most painful things to experience to have a friend give up on themselves and to this day just writing this i have tears in my eyes. Resy in peace ricky stinkytoe. So no suicide is not an answer to anything. A permanent solution to a temporary problem.
 
Shrooms00087 said:
Is there one?
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It is your body and you can kill yourself if you want to, that is our God-given free will.

But remember, if you do commit suicide your soul will come back and be born again into another body (with a way more miserable life situation that you had this time around) and start over to try to get closer to final ascension, because you fucked up this chance you were given.
 
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