Opioids Kratom Mega Thread v. 5

[chasingabee]

I'm interested in trying Kratom to see if it can help me with my anxiety, depression and chronic pain. There is so much confusing and conflicting information on the internet and it is pretty overwhelming. Could someone please explain to me the different strains, and how they differ in their effects? Or if not, point me to some useful sources?

 

[Slow_Mobius]

I'm interested in trying Kratom to see if it can help me with my anxiety, depression and chronic pain. There is so much confusing and conflicting information on the internet and it is pretty overwhelming. Could someone please explain to me the different strains, and how they differ in their effects? Or if not, point me to some useful sources?

Do you take any other drugs or have an opioid tolerance? Kratom might be able to help you with all of those issues

 

[chasingabee]

I might have a very minor opioid tolerance as I use dihydrocodeine occasionaly, maybe once a week at the very max. I also use diazepam and/or alprazolam the same amount.

 

[Slow_Mobius]

I might have a very minor opioid tolerance as I use dihydrocodeine occasionaly, maybe once a week at the very max. I also use diazepam and/or alprazolam the same amount.

In that case, you should start low and work your way up. 2-3g is probably a good starting point for someone that's mostly opioid naive. Start there and wait an hour before taking more. Everyone has very different sweet spots for dosing kratom.

In general, white strains are more stimulating, red strains are more sedating, and green strains are somewhere in-between. Some people don't think the different vein colors matter, but IME they feel mostly the same if I'm buying from a not so great vendor, but if you find a quality vendor, I think their different products definitely have different effects. For me, white tai is normally the most stimulating, and it can be better for depression than reds. But again, everyone is different, and you'll probably have to do some experimenting before you find your own favorites.

Also, increasing your dose will usually increase feelings of sedation while lower doses are are better for daytime/stimulating effects. A lot of people have trouble sleeping on kratom, so that's something to consider. I can sleep fine after taking kratom, but I seem to be an exception to most people in that regard.

 

[mike.vick]

^^^^ Yeah, if you were opiate niave, 3.5g of 3.5% alkaloid kratom (that would be pretty pure, strong powder - ranges from 1%-6% ) would be equalanalgesic to ~6-10mg of morphine - an analgesic dose to a niave person.

I think at 3.5% potency- I calculated 10g-15g equalanalgesia to be ~28.5mg morphine.

 

[Mycophile]

I'm interested in trying Kratom to see if it can help me with my anxiety, depression and chronic pain. There is so much confusing and conflicting information on the internet and it is pretty overwhelming. Could someone please explain to me the different strains, and how they differ in their effects? Or if not, point me to some useful sources?

I have generalized anxiety disorder, depression and pain from injuries I got doing martial arts like torn ACLs, a torn wrist ligament, and neck and arm pain, and Kratom is extremely beneficial for all these things.

But if you live in the U.S. I don’t see the point in getting into it since it will probably be illegal very soon.

It’s POSSIBLE it might not become illegal as people are still trying to fight the DEA on it, but I’d say there’s about a 75% chance of it becoming illegal VERY soon.

I’d suggest you only get into it IF we hear that it’s not becoming illegal.

Otherwise there’s no point.

As far as strains, I personally don’t think there’s much difference between them, or at least I personally notice very little difference, but some others disagree completely.

So I can’t say what would help most, but generally people say white is the most stimulating, red the most sedating and green in the middle.

My overall favorite strain is Green Malaysian, but most strains will probably help with anxiety and depression IMO and all should be effective for pain seeing as it’s an opioid.

IF you try it, just try not to become 100% physically dependent on it, or else your depression and anxiety may be worse if you are in withdrawal.

 

[Mycophile]

Question:

I just took some stem and vein for the first time and I was wondering what people generally think is different about it from other strains, and also why people say it is better for helping one withdraw from Kratom and other opioids than other strains?

Also, why is it called "stem and vein"?

Is it made of the stems of Kratom?

As it just kicked in it feels like most other strains, though I am still on elephant as well which hasn't worn off.

Since it may be my last chance if it becomes illegal, I'm going out with a bang and trying every type of strain I can get my hands on.

The ones I have that I have tried or will try soon include:

1) elephant
2) stem & vein
3) Bentuangie
4) Green Vein Riau
5) Red Vein Riau
6) Pleasant Green Bali
7) Yellow Malaysian (first time I've heard of a yellow strain)
8) Hulu Kapuas


So far I have tried elephant, strem & Vein, Green Vein Riau, Hulu Kapuas and Bentuangie but not the others.

As usual, I can't tell that much of a difference between these strains.

Elephant though seems to be weaker as I have a MASSIVE tolerance and usually take between 14 and 18.5 grams, but 14 gets me good if a strain is strong, but 14 of the elephant wasn't strong till I took 18.5, then it felt good.

Like the other day even going to 16 grams on Green Malay was bad and made me overly sedated and not very pleasant feeling and I should have stuck with 14 or 15, but that much elephant wouldn't have even felt like enough.

Bentuangie wasn't incredible, Hulu Kapuas ok, but the best of these strains so far was the Green Vein Riau.

I always like Green Veins.

 

[Slow_Mobius]

Stem and vein is exactly what it says, it's stems and veins. They're normally removed since they contain less mytragynine.

 

[Mycophile]

Stem and vein is exactly what it says, it's stems and veins. They're normally removed since they contain less mytragynine.

Oh, so S & V has less mitraginine than other Kratom?

I also didn't know that Kratom as a plant has "veins".

 

[Snake_Eyes]

I have generalized anxiety disorder, depression and pain from injuries I got doing martial arts like torn ACLs, a torn wrist ligament, and neck and arm pain, and Kratom is extremely beneficial for all these things.

But if you live in the U.S. I don’t see the point in getting into it since it will probably be illegal very soon.

It’s POSSIBLE it might not become illegal as people are still trying to fight the DEA on it, but I’d say there’s about a 75% chance of it becoming illegal VERY soon.

I’d suggest you only get into it IF we hear that it’s not becoming illegal.

Otherwise there’s no point.

I kind of disagree. If kratom works well for him with anxiety, depression etc. then I don't see reason to stay away. If he can stay at a lower gram set dose say 5 grams or less then a couple few kilos could last him few years. You just have to weigh the risk vs reward. If you knew for certain that it was being banned then that's one thing but to live under the constant fear and worry that it might be one day be illegal then they have already won. Kratom has been on their radar for years and we all knew that it was a possibility would be banned someday.

I can't recall if you are still using kratom at all since the ban was first announced but if you aren't what if they don't announce the future of kratom for another 3 months? That could of been 6 months that you could of been enjoying a legal plant that I know you love. Fuck the DEA, don't let them control your life out of fear of the "what if". I currently have a 10-20 gram daily habit and if they announce at the end of the month that they are banning it then I'll cross that bridge when it happens, hopefully they'll give more than a months notice this time but if they don't it's not the end of the world.

 

[Oxygal]

Question:

I just took some stem and vein for the first time and I was wondering what people generally think is different about it from other strains, and also why people say it is better for helping one withdraw from Kratom and other opioids than other strains?

Also, why is it called "stem and vein"?

Is it made of the stems of Kratom?

As it just kicked in it feels like most other strains, though I am still on elephant as well which hasn't worn off.

Since it may be my last chance if it becomes illegal, I'm going out with a bang and trying every type of strain I can get my hands on.

The ones I have that I have tried or will try soon include:

1) elephant
2) stem & vein
3) Bentuangie
4) Green Vein Riau
5) Red Vein Riau
6) Pleasant Green Bali
7) Yellow Malaysian (first time I've heard of a yellow strain)
8) Hulu Kapuas


So far I have tried elephant, strem & Vein, Green Vein Riau, Hulu Kapuas and Bentuangie but not the others.

As usual, I can't tell that much of a difference between these strains.

Elephant though seems to be weaker as I have a MASSIVE tolerance and usually take between 14 and 18.5 grams, but 14 gets me good if a strain is strong, but 14 of the elephant wasn't strong till I took 18.5, then it felt good.

Like the other day even going to 16 grams on Green Malay was bad and made me overly sedated and not very pleasant feeling and I should have stuck with 14 or 15, but that much elephant wouldn't have even felt like enough.

Bentuangie wasn't incredible, Hulu Kapuas ok, but the best of these strains so far was the Green Vein Riau.

I always like Green Veins.

I TOTALLY recommend green Bali. I've only been using Kratom for about 6 months but it is hands down my favorite strain so far. I just tried it for the first time last week. It will be what I buy every time if it's available.

 

[Mycophile]

I kind of disagree. If kratom works well for him with anxiety, depression etc. then I don't see reason to stay away. If he can stay at a lower gram set dose say 5 grams or less then a couple few kilos could last him few years. You just have to weigh the risk vs reward. If you knew for certain that it was being banned then that's one thing but to live under the constant fear and worry that it might be one day be illegal then they have already won. Kratom has been on their radar for years and we all knew that it was a possibility would be banned someday.

I can't recall if you are still using kratom at all since the ban was first announced but if you aren't what if they don't announce the future of kratom for another 3 months? That could of been 6 months that you could of been enjoying a legal plant that I know you love. Fuck the DEA, don't let them control your life out of fear of the "what if". I currently have a 10-20 gram daily habit and if they announce at the end of the month that they are banning it then I'll cross that bridge when it happens, hopefully they'll give more than a months notice this time but if they don't it's not the end of the world.

Oh yeah of course he could stock up.

I don't know why, I guess because I was just thinking of my own habits, because I don't like stocking up or being in possession of more than about 24 ounces at a time tops, I was imagining he wasn't going to stock up and just be buying little bits at a time, and thinking then if you'd never done Kratom before getting into it shortly before it being banned and just trying small amounts to see if you like it would be pointless.

But of course if he was going to stock up it could be worth it.

Yeah, before I had said I wasn't going to order more but then I kind of gave in and went the opposite route where I decided I still wanted to do some for a little while, so I decided that if it's going to become illegal I'm going to go out with a bang and try to try as many of the rarer strains I've never tried before as possible because I might never get another chance.

That's why I ordered all those like Elephant, Bentuangie, Stem and Vein, Green and Red Vein Riau, Hulu Kapuas, Pleasant Green Bali, etc.

So, do you think it MIGHT be a good sign that as of December 5th now the DEA hasn't made any announcement when they said they were going to on December 1st??

To me it seems like it might possibly be a good sign that perhaps they are involved in a bigger battle with the protesters than they anticipated and not sure yet what they are going to do.

I mean if they were 100% SURE they were going to make it illegal don't you think they would have promptly announced they were banning it right away on December 1st??

I think they probably would have so I'm thinking and hoping that maybe things aren't going quite as they'd planned that they haven't made the announcement yet.

 

[mike.vick]

I might have a very minor opioid tolerance as I use dihydrocodeine occasionaly, maybe once a week at the very max. I also use diazepam and/or alprazolam the same amount.

That is probably the root of your causes - rebound symtoms.

 

[LucidSDreamr]

fuck w/ kratom. where will i get heroin when its illegal soon?

forgot what i was gonna post...it was a good q tho.

is it possible to make a non-nauseating extrct from hard liq an kratom....sort of like soaking weed in everclear to make stoner juice?

just making conversatino bc i was too stoned to remember why i started typing...but it WAS inmportnat

 

[burn out]

Oh, so S & V has less mitraginine than other Kratom?

I also didn't know that Kratom as a plant has "veins".

The veins are the parts of the leaves that bring nutrients to the rest of the leaf I believe.

 

[mike.vick]

The veins are the parts of the leaves that bring nutrients to the rest of the leaf I believe.

Kratom leaves has viens like any leaf... The veins & stem are mostly fiber.

 

[gmlifer]

Moving on, do you guys find kratom only partially covers WD- the worst parts: suicidal-ideation, and RLS are completely releaved)? But there is still some WD symptoms that are still not covered by kratom, it doesn't fully substitute for opiates. That's how I feel. I have taken many grams today - an nearly unpalatable number of grams - and it does not seem to fully substitute for morphine-like drugs.
Only partial attenuation, no drug effects.

I'll put it to you like this. I have an oxy addiction of 100mg a day or so. I can switch from oxy to kratom without ANY physical withdrawals and yes the kratom gets me high too. It doesn't help with the oxy cravings though. I almost wish I never found kratom because I feel like I may have quit the oxy by now if I hadn't. Let's be honest, nobody here wants to quit their doc because they don't like the high. If you are like me it's the withdrawal that motivates you to quit. Because of kratom I can live very comfortably until I get my next script so why quit?

Also, I would like to add that when I started taking kratom my habit was about 60mg a day. DO NOT underestimate the potency of kratom.

 

[Mycophile]

So I don't know about you guys, but my unfortunate theory is that the DEA is just waiting for Trump to get in office and probably have Jeff Sessions the HUGE asshole who thinks weed is only for "bad people" to get into that Attorney General spot to announce that Kratom is illegal.

At first I was thinking it was a good sign that December 1st has passed without them saying anything, like maybe it was going to be more trouble than it was worth so they are reconsidering, but naw, I think they are just wait for Trump to take office to ban it.

People like Trump, Sessions and all these other assholes would love nothing more than to take another plant away from people.

What do you guys think?

 

[MDPV_Psychosis]

So I don't know about you guys, but my unfortunate theory is that the DEA is just waiting for Trump to get in office and probably have Jeff Sessions the HUGE asshole who thinks weed is only for "bad people" to get into that Attorney General spot to announce that Kratom is illegal.

At first I was thinking it was a good sign that December 1st has passed without them saying anything, like maybe it was going to be more trouble than it was worth so they are reconsidering, but naw, I think they are just wait for Trump to take office to ban it.

People like Trump, Sessions and all these other assholes would love nothing more than to take another plant away from people.

What do you guys think?

I've had my doubts, as most of have had, every since they originally delayed the ban. The moment Trump was elected I got even more worried... Not just for kratoms future but marijuanas as well. I live in California so I was pleased with how the marijuana thing worked out but still worried for what the future holds since we know Trump's stand on it.

Your prediction could very well come true. Let's hope it doesn't.

 

[mike.vick]

I'll put it to you like this. I have an oxy addiction of 100mg a day or so. I can switch from oxy to kratom without ANY physical withdrawals and yes the kratom gets me high too. It doesn't help with the oxy cravings though. I almost wish I never found kratom because I feel like I may have quit the oxy by now if I hadn't. Let's be honest, nobody here wants to quit their doc because they don't like the high. If you are like me it's the withdrawal that motivates you to quit. Because of kratom I can live very comfortably until I get my next script so why quit?

Also, I would like to add that when I started taking kratom my habit was about 60mg a day. DO NOT underestimate the potency of kratom.

Maybe you're a rare case - I could eat dozens of grams of powder kratom and it wouldn't touch heroin intranasal WD, clonidine is more efficacious. And this is at a relatively lower dose roughly equal to 75mg-160mg of morphine/ day or about 45-80mg per day equivalant of oxy ir maybe. But it's really pure like ~75% diacetylmorph #4