What is wrong with the MDMA available today?

[Glubrahnum]

Mixing 75:25 hot acetone and hot IPA gives good solubility for the crushed MDMA.

...but good solubility of the drug and its contaminants does not facilitate purification !
To be most effective at purification, the solvent must differentiate between the desired substance and its contaminants.

If only pure Acetone and IPA are available and they are to be used to purify a contaminated 3,4-MDMA·HCl most effectively, then the impure dry powder should be:
1) Washed with cold Acetone first, and the resulting liquid should be discarded.
2) The remaining solids should be press-dried and dissolved in IPA. All of the solids that do not dissolve in IPA should be discarded (by sedimentation/decantation or filtration).
3) The purified 3,4-MDMA·HCl should be recovered from the IPA solution by evaporation and recrystallization.

Step 1 removes all the impurities that are soluble in Acetone and Step 2 removes all the impurities that are insoluble in IPA.
Mixing Acetone and IPA does not make sense for purification because achieving maximum solubility of the desired drug AND its contaminants is not the goal of purification.

P.S.
Pure acetone is hard to obtain. Drying commercial Acetone with a desiccant or molecular sieves might be easier than buying it.
If the Acetone is not dry, it will adversely affect the yield of the purification.

 

[G_Chem]

Yes the products I take are likely almost always Canadian in origin.

I know what you mean on MDA, even in a combo the threat of puking is high and following days definitely more rough but that experience is lovely. A lot of my best rolls have had MDA mixed in, I actually get more empathy of MDA but I think it depends on the batch.

With that said it's not a party drug for me, it's a hang with close ones by a fire while chatting shit type of drug for me. I rarely get visual effects but when I do they are wild, like delusional yet cool. It just feels like a more intense yet personal empathogen typically for me.

And depending on the route they can be similar in ease to make (mdma vs MDA) but each route is different. Some can only make one or the other, some can do one better than the other.

For instance the leuckart reaction commonly used back in the early 90's was better for MDA than MDMA in terms of yield and purity. Not a huge difference in comparison to the al/hg amalgam which has an absolutely shit yield for MDA yet great for mdma. I do think MDA can be made via piperanol from my memory but there's got to be a reason via the intermediate PMK-glycidate that MDA isn't as common.

-GC

 

[scatterday]

Any liquids I consume pre consumption of MDxx substances usually make me nauseous so I tend to go for a walk and hold off on the liquids until the drug is in full effect that way I can avoid the nausea. Tends to help with the comeup anxiety too and the butterfly's in the stomach.

Though in saying that the MDMA I was consuming pre 2008 before the safrole treaty was signed I experienced no symptoms of nausea of vomiting.

Perhaps it was as a result of smoking cannabis prior to the consumption of our pills or just the synthesis and by-products of the piperanol mongy MDMA are now causing the nausea.

I experience really blurry vision on the MDMA these days and have difficulty urinating for some reason, Never used to experience these symptoms prior to the treaty and the worldwide MDMA shortage before piperanol was the new precursor.

Safrole would have to be affecting the isomer ratios as the chemist says because as it is a organic derived precursor and rather not a synthetic precursor like piperanol I don't get the natural feeling of empathy and euphoria anymore. Music doesn't seem as appealing either which is one major difference I've noticed.

It all feels like it's a forced high for some reason.

Music always would send a warm tingle throughout my body and head rubs felt fantastic. They would send warm rushes of bliss through my body.

I don't experience that anymore either, Always flicking through songs to find one but back in the day I was content listening to the same song all night and it would sound incredible.

 

[G_Chem]

^^Thing is it doesn't HAVE to be the isomers. It could be, but it could also be impurities, polymorphs, we just don't really know.. People thought an R-heavy batch would be the culprit for years, Glubra showed that at least at (62% R, 37% S) the effects seemed perfectly satisfactory. Maybe if it reached 90/10 R/S then it'd start to get problematic but I'm still unsure if it's causing what we're seeing.

Also remember just because the guy is lab chemist doesn't mean he knows all. We wouldn't even be here discussing this if lab analysts were experts in everything, as they'd of caught the problem long ago.

I think we need to keep an open mind until we see more evidence.

We've got lots of varied evidence that could make any of the three variables I listed above a real possibility.

As for mdma and vomiting, I get it with mdma too and I feel it's always been an issue for me. Although come to think of it, times where I've taken safrole mdma it's happened a lot less or not at all. You may be on to something... I'll have to scour my memory banks more on that.

This past weekend I took mdma twice (I do this every year, 4 of my 6 yearly experiences are usually two dayers at festivals, as long as you are very healthy and take antioxidants with reasonable doses it's safe I feel). One night I took mdma that seemed derived from safrole as it had the exact safrole smell (I know it well.) The other stuff seemed like highly pure rhomboid crystals with no smell, their taste was devoid of safrole too.

I found the experience with the safrole mdma which also appeared less pure to be better. I also did not vomit from the safrole mdma but did at the comeup of the other rhomboidal crystals. The safrole mdma has been consistently long lasting with high level of empathy and a great comeup where I can't stop saying to myself "I'm blowing up so hard right now maaan.. I texted all my family members at midnight telling them how much they meant to me haha typical mdma stuff.

Now there were a lot of factors that could skew those results, other drugs, timing of each experience, etc... But I've taken that safrole mdma many times before and I love it so much.

-GC

 

[G_Chem]

God it kills me to look at all the horrible threads in this forum. While I know some don't agree with me I do feel this issue is more isolated to areas that also complain about mongy MDMA.

This forum has a higher percentage of European users and also most of the horror stories, yet when you look at Reddit which is mainly Americans (stupid Americans at that lol, that forum kills me too..) there is MUCH less talk of LTC and much more talk about all the positives people seem to be missing here. Add on to that the fact there's been cases where multiple people have gotten LTC from the same batch/experience and it's very obvious this is an issue with the product itself.

I think it's time we all finally realize that the US (by proximity to Canada) may actually have the better MDMA. I know it's a hard pill for some to swallow (as it seems there's a rivalry there) but the evidence don't lie.

-GC

 

[Holly.3]

Okay here are the pictures. No flash used on any pictures. First one is a sample of the original product, other three are the cleaned product.

What are these pictures of? MDMA in crystalline form? I've never had MDMA in crystalline form nor have seen it in person. Just in pictures and on TV. I'm sure you guys have seen the National Geographic show, Drugs Inc., when they show pure MDMA, it always looks like it has a slight off white to a light tan color, or a "champagne" color as mentioned in an earlier post Close to what the first picture looks like. I saw some stuff that was close to that color in the first picture, more on the lighter shade of tan then the darker spots on the first picture product.

My friend had a little tiny Superman ziplock which looked like coarse table salt butt of an off white to a light tan color. It was roughly the consistency of table salt to a slightly courser form of table salt. Where she had it stashed, there was a little baggie of this crystallized salty looking product and another baggie that had 5 Playboy pink bunny ecstasy pills. I know for certain that the ecstasy pills were from around 2005 to 2007 and I'm sure it's safe to assume that the little Superman baggie with the light tan crystallized salt looking product was around the same age. The crystalline product when tasted had a salty taste. Just wondering what the salty tasting tan crystalline product was? From what I remember, it wasn't soft to the touch. Not sure if it could have been chopped up with a razor blade and turned into a fine powder. It really reminded me of a slightly course form of salt except for it was off white to a light tan color. And the fact that it was in a small Superman ziplock makes me think it was some kind of drug, but I don't know what it could have been.

I know from what she said, the 5 pink Playboy ecstasy pills that she had gotten between 2005 and 2007 that she still had where the best out of all the ecstasy pills she had taken as an occasional once or twice every one to two months user that she had ever done. She said today she could sell them for twice as much per pill then what the going rate is now. And for me, between that same time span I had done ecstasy occasionally 12 to14 times. And every time I had a pink Playboy bunny, I always found it to be of a much better quality with a cleaner high and a less harsh come down , and was what I usually looked for when I was wanting to buy a pill or two.

The tan or "champagne" color, salty looking product in the Superman baggie looks like what I've seen on the TV show Drugs Inc. When they're showing pure MDMA but from what someone had already said in an earlier post, it shouldn't have a salty taste. So I kind of wonder what would fit this description with a salty taste, not as intense as normal table salt would taste when touched it to the tongue, but a noticeably saltish taste.

I don't know of any drug that would be in a crystalline form the consistency of table salt that would be of this color and have a saltyish taste.

Back in 2005 through 2007 could you get pure MDMA in a crystalline form the way you can get it today where it's usually contained and purchased in a small clear pill like capsule that can be separated to get the MDMA out of it

 

[G_Chem]

^^^The salty taste that can sometimes accompany MDMA is an artifact of the process. Typically it happens when there's too much excess sodium hydroxide reacting with HCl when they are cleaning up during an A/B. This leaves salt as a byproduct. And since salt is both crystalline as well as adds weight, lazy chemists would rather leave it.

I noticed this taste more in my early days of taking crystal mdma after it switched from pills to pure around 2009-10 in my area. But haven't tasted salty in a long time and if I did I'd give it back cuz that's an obvious impurity.

My guess is because you believe it's from a while back that it's because chemists were still learning their trade back then and it was kind of a newer thing to make crystals instead of pills. Also again it's more tempting to leave the weight in a product that is sold by weight VS a pill which is sold by unit. Since the mid 00's things have changed, and while some chemists have decided to do a shittier job others have honed their trade.

Also the "pure mdma" they show on nat geo is just like any "pure mdma" any of us buy, it should never be a champagne color if it's truly pure.

Pure anhydrous MDMA forms crystal clear rhomboidal crystals that are typically 200mg at their biggest. Pure hydrated MDMA creates crystal clear parallelogram type crystals, these seem to be able to be created a bit bigger but aren't as commonly encountered, unsure of what they max out at. There should also be no detectable smell.

It doesn't mean you have bad product if it doesn't meet those requirements but that's what it looks like when it's as pure as it gets.

-GC

 

[scatterday]

Pure anhydrous MDMA forms crystal clear rhomboidal crystals that are typically 200mg at their biggest. Pure hydrated MDMA creates crystal clear parallelogram type crystals, these seem to be able to be created a bit bigger but aren't as commonly encountered, unsure of what they max out at. There should also be no detectable smell.

-GC

I can form large crystals and have previously by slow heat reduction via the hotplate of my solution of anhydrous IPA followed by placing my beaker on a heater then settling the solution to room temperature followed by a slow cooling method with cling film and a rubber band over the top to stop H20 from entering the solution.

As I was saying slow/gradual reduction of temperature leads to bigger and larger/purer crystals. Providing you have enough product you could form a golf ball sized crystal if you don't rush the precipitation via instantaneous cooling.

I'll upload some pictures when I perform my wash to show you. I don't have much left but I'll do my best to form one large crystal.

If anyone is thinking I am by no means an MDMA chemist I just read an amateur guide online and followed the instructions that lead to purer crystals and an amazing experience.

Believe it or not I'm an early college drop out and have limited knowledge in chemistry but it's always been something that's interested me. We were never taught chemistry in college here in Australia. Either that or I didn't select it as a subject.

Weird education system I know..

 

[SympatheticMD]

I always come in after several pages of serious chemical analysis has been added.

I am with G-Chem that the isomer ratios are not the real kickers in the change in the quality of what is being sold lately. I read a little bit about Shulgin and his wife, and I KNOW I read they experimented with different ratios and purities of the isomers themselves, and described the differences. They also described two different methods of synthesizing it – one starting with safrole and one starting with piperonal. So I don’t think piperonal it the culprit either (and maybe you guys are saying this, but I am not a chemist and it gets confusing).

From what I gathered researching drug confiscation reports is that labs are moving to ways that emphasize mass production, and that things like piperonal are hard to come by as well. So the mass products are experiments in using other precursors and/or shortcuts that sully the end product. By my thinking, the washing you guys are doing that is successfully making a cleaner and more enjoyable product is removing whatever impurities these new routes of synthesis are making. The…God, what do you call them… the Feds? Whatever… the legal forces that be chase the precursors and find ways to tag and ID the products that are made in these quickly built and demolished labs that put out thousands of pills and then disappear off the map. I just think the stuff people buy online or from particular geographical regions is likely to be sourced from these mass producers;and other consumers are lucky enough to have access to smaller labs that focus on quality product rather than high level criminal profit.

Scatterday, is you chemist going to analyze the “wash product” … or can that even be done to evaluate what might be tainting the mass produced producte and/or identify what was used as a precursor? Or more importantly, how you might be able to tell quickly if these contaminants were in something you purchased? Also, I offered to help with the payment to support the research, although I don’t know how to figure that out.

Lastly, Scatterday and Indigoaura, you guys were talking about B12 levels earlier. I have 3-4x the normal limit of B12 in my blood, and every doctor I see tells me I’m taking supplements. I’m a doctor, and I’m not taking supplements. There is some research in Europe that looks into this phenomenon (unfortunately they correlate it as an early diagnostic sign for several types of cancer). After much research, my theory is there are multiple genetic variants for the absorption and metabolism of B12. IndigoAura is right about taking the methylated version. I actually starting doing IM shots (you can find these in weight loss clinics or through your doctor). Ironically, injecting the cyanocobalamin IM ended up making my B12 levels (and the proper metabolic excrements) go DOWN.

All I’m saying is that I know a lot of people with (low level) anxiety, and most of them have high B12 levels with their doctors telling them that it is due to supplements. And all of these people stopped taking B12, felt shitty, and started taking it again and love it (me included). Try getting a B21 shot somewhere and see what it does. An PS, this advice obviously does not come from any type of scientific study and is advice from someone who likes to experiment with things at some risk to herself

 

[anon65535]

Glub, I get what you're saying and it's possible that that 5g I have in brown powder is because of the IPA dissolving the M with the other leftover contaminants. However Borax's Tek does call for a hot anhydrous acetone wash. The potential contaminants from the glycidate including acrylamide, glycidic acid and others are either soluble in alcohols or acetone. With a hot acetone wash, if you can get the majority to dissolve you get the highest potential to clean all the material. When cooling it down, the MDMA crashes out of the solution and those contaminants stay in the solution. Filter those out and you have a good cleaning. I suppose with the IPA you have a point as it won't really clean them. But I'd almost rather lose a couple grams with the dirty stuff and be left with a really nice product than be left with it. I'll try again with just anhydrous acetone, hot wash and post results.

I guess one question I have is, with an IPA recrystallization, if the contaminant is soluble in IPA, can you re-x and still manage to keep the contaminant out it the crystal formation? Would you be best off trying to re-x as slowly as possible and then when there's only a little bit if liquid left to discard it?

 

[scatterday]

Scatterday, is your chemist going to analyse the “washed product” … or can that even be done to evaluate what might be tainting the mass produced product and/or identify what was used as a precursor? Or more importantly, how you might be able to tell quickly if these contaminants were in something you purchased? Also, I offered to help with the payment to support the research, although I don’t know how to figure that out.

Lastly, Scatterday and Indigoaura, you guys were talking about B12 levels earlier. I have 3-4x the normal limit of B12 in my blood, and every doctor I see tells me I’m taking supplements. I’m a doctor, and I’m not taking supplements. There is some research in Europe that looks into this phenomenon (unfortunately they correlate it as an early diagnostic sign for several types of cancer). After much research, my theory is there are multiple genetic variants for the absorption and metabolism of B12. IndigoAura is right about taking the methylated version. I actually starting doing IM shots (you can find these in weight loss clinics or through your doctor). Ironically, injecting the cyanocobalamin IM ended up making my B12 levels (and the proper metabolic excrements) go DOWN.

All I’m saying is that I know a lot of people with (low level) anxiety, and most of them have high B12 levels with their doctors telling them that it is due to supplements. And all of these people stopped taking B12, felt shitty, and started taking it again and love it (me included). Try getting a B21 shot somewhere and see what it does. An PS, this advice obviously does not come from any type of scientific study and is advice from someone who likes to experiment with things at some risk to herself

So I clarified subjects the chemist explained to me today when I called regarding my alprazolam quantitative analysis of the pill I sent in which the results were meant to be in today but it's been backtracked, He's ordered pure alprazolam to identify how much was present within the xanax bar I sent to him. He doesn't mind pharmaceutical drugs being sent but in terms of products like MDMA he doesn't want them to show up regularly. He mentioned to state in an email they were found randomly somewhere and I'd like to identify the sample in terms of my own/family's safety.

If there are any adulterants present within the unwashed sample I'm sure the gc/ms analysis will indicate this along with the isomer ratios pre and post wash even if isomer ratios aren't relevant (This still isn't eliminated as far as I'm concerned and may be responsible for how MDMA feels these days)

I have a paypal account and would be more than willing to go halves in this research with you, It's expensive and costs me a fortune and any help would be much appreciated by anyone in the community.

I would be more than happy to publish my results for the alprazolam (xanax bar) if I can get approval from him. Whenever I open the file it takes me to an internet browser then when I press download to edit the file it downloads the exact same file. If he allows I will be removing some of the information that may be traced back to his laboratory so he doesn't loose his position as an employee there for doing things he shouldn't be. If he allows this (unsure st this point I will edit the document in paint to remove any revealing data from the laboratory for his own protection followed by an exif data removal and uploaded to a tor browser onion image/document uploading server.

I'll call up again today to see what he has to say regarding publishing his results. I don't want to hassle him too much as much as he is a nice guy.

He seems like a really nice gentleman and said if I sent in a washed sample and an unwashed sample I would only be charged for 1 test rather than 2 which is a positive in my books. My last test was 190ish aud. Quantitative analysis for the xanax bar should be in a week or so before it arrives because it's a schedule 8 drug here in Australia.

Getting off this subject now regarding the vitamin B levels and my blood tests they were high because I was taking multi vitamins and have had several blood results since then and everything is back to normal. My doctor recommended to stop taking multi vitamins because you get all the vitamins and minerals you need from food everyday

My mental health issues unfortunately stem from the heavy abuse of cannabis from a young adolescent to the end of my adolescent years.

I've been through some major trauma and cannabis on a growing brain is detrimental. I firmly believe cannabis should not be touched until the brain has stopped developing unless used medicinally which I was not. I was using it recreationally like a fool and believe I have a neurotransmitter imbalance as a result of this now.

Though what you're saying I can see having some credibility and I'm willing to give that a try.

I'm happy enough to be prescribed alprazolam as a long term solution to my mental health issues. I'd rather pass away at 65 living a peaceful life and happy life rather than live to 70 and be traumatised every day of my life due to my mental health issues.

 

[scatterday]

I guess one question I have is, with an IPA recrystallization, if the contaminant is soluble in IPA, can you re-x and still manage to keep the contaminant out it the crystal formation? Would you be best off trying to re-x as slowly as possible and then when there's only a little bit if liquid left to discard it?

This is correct, Refer to my statement a few comments above regarding the precipitation of MDMA crystals in anhydrous IPA.

If your crystals have been cleansed enough they should appear to be clear and see through. I generally waited for a 24 hour period or longer before the crystal has formed.

There was a reason not to crash out the MDMA in a cold solution immediately because it doesn't give the contaminants time to separate from your MDMA and they can be trapped inside. To my knowledge amphetamines only desolve in anhydrous IPA when we're on the subject of purification.

The anhydrous acetone should turn your crystals into a powder which you should then purify and let evaporate followed by your anhydrous IPA wash.

But beware if you have followed this procedure correctly your clear crystals will be much stronger and will require far less to achieve a desirable high 100mg or less is advised followed by a re dose if needed. Which leads me to believe purifying and recrystallising your MDMA may alter the isomer ratios by removing impurities and/or by-products from the synthesis.

We won't know until a month or two has passed and I decide to get around to performing this unfortunately I don't have much MDMA left though when I did consume the washed/purified MDMA the experience was extremely therapeutic and felt like the MDMA I'm familiar with.

I'll send in 2 samples each one will consist of 100mg, Washed and unwashed.

Of course this process can be sped up if someone pays for the sample (Not implying anyone should pay for it) because I still have to buy some Epsom salts to dehydrate and add to my acetone solution then filter. You can obtain anhydrous IPA from just about any PC repair place as any H20 present within the IPA can damage the PC components and short them out.

I do have some anhydrous acetone but I don't trust it because it's been years since my last wash and I suspect it's now not anhydrous and would prefer to buy fresh solvents and a proper boiling stone this time instead of using a matchstick to prevent the liquids from super heating.

As I said it's not high on my list on priorities currently because I have a lot going on and am extremely busy with selling car parts.

This is why I placed cling film and a rubber band over my solution as the MDMA was crashing out to prevent any H20 from entering the solution and loosing product.

 

[G_Chem]

@scatterday- Indeed large crystals of MDMA can be made, but did they appear to be anhydrous or hydrated? (Anhydrous mdma forms orthorhombic crystals, hydrated forms parallelogram crystals that look like diamond shaped.)

I've seen giant hydrated mdma crystals but very few large anhydrous crystals. Not to say it can't happen but just what I've seen based on my research as well as in person.

Also I may be able to help with funding here soon (month or two) if need be.. Moneys flowing again and I'd love to see more results on isomer ratios as well as any impurities found.

As for isomers changing after washes, that is unlikely to happen unless one isomer is getting left behind during cleaning (which is possible.) I do think this is possible but unlikely when thinking that lots of impurities are being cleaned out as well, the impurities are likely the variable in that equation.

@anon- I'd suggest against using hot acetone for cleaning mdma. Amines react with ketones to form Imines from my poor memory. While this doesn't seem to be a huge issue with MDMA, it's still possible and likely some mdma is being converted.

I'd stick with a cold acetone wash followed by the re-X in anhydrous IPA. This is less likely to alter the molecule.

@MD- Indeed piperanol has been known about and used since the beginning but it didn't really get popular until the early 2000's from what I can see. And I'd even wager that it wasn't the most popular precursor until the late 2000's.

With that said you may be right. I'm positive I've taken mdma synth'ed from piperanol and it did what it was supposed to do. Glubra's friends took mdma from piperanol and it was satisfactory. I think pretty pure product no matter the route will be good, but it's when the chemists get lazy that things start to vary a bit.

Which again brings us back to impurities.. If isomers were to blame we'd be feeling the problems even with highly pure product but I can't say I've seen too many people bitch when they take really clean mdma (whether it smells like safrole or not.)


I grabbed myself a few .1g of impure MDA and plan on cleaning up some of it for a comparison. It'll be a long time before I try both the before and after but it's in the works.

Also I'm planning on starting a new thread once I've written a good starting point about different synth routes and "bioassay" of the product from that route. I think it'd be beneficial to compile all experience reports (bioassay reports) that also report the route that was used to make the mdma.

That way we can start to get a good understanding of which routes produce what type of product. Reports like these are hard to find but they are out there, primarily in the old Hive archive.

-GC

 

[indigoaura]

Quick comment on the vomiting...I used to vomit on the old stuff that smelled like safrole, but do not vomit at all on the new stuff. So, I guess I am the opposite of some of you.

MD - Yes, the high B12 can be a sign that it is not being used properly/absorbed properly by the body. Yes, this can be due to mutations which make it difficult to process and use the cyanocobalamin, or other defects in the methylation cycle that prevent things from running smoothly. MTHFR mutations are some of the more well known mutations, but there are others as well. For some people who show "high" levels on tests, supplementing with methylated B vitamins can actually make the high levels go down rather than go up. Weird, right?

 

[scatterday]

@scatterday- Indeed large crystals of MDMA can be made, but did they appear to be anhydrous or hydrated? (Anhydrous mdma forms orthorhombic crystals, hydrated forms parallelogram crystals that look like diamond shaped.)

I've seen giant hydrated mdma crystals but very few large anhydrous crystals. Not to say it can't happen but just what I've seen based on my research as well as in person.

Also I may be able to help with funding here soon (month or two) if need be.. Moneys flowing again and I'd love to see more results on isomer ratios as well as any impurities found.
-GC

It was definitely anhydrous if I recall correctly.

Any help with this research would greatly be appreciated but if you're not financially stable it's not required. Just not sure how we would sort out payment. Perhaps to my paypal account as I mentioned above?

It may just take some time for me to get around to creating a fresh batch of anhydrous acetone and sourcing some more anhydrous IPA.

I'm currently not in the right financial position to be testing anything else for a while. Even if I was it would take at least a week to wash the crystals because of having to remove the H20 from my acetone and another few days after that for the results of both purified and impure MDMA along with postage to the lab.

I have received confirmation from the chemist to also post the graphs and some parts of the information that isn't private such as the lab it was analysed at. So I am able to publish charts for chemical analysis, heavy metal analysis, substance and molecular structure chart and quantitative analysis information.

Though the information we receive back will be extremely crucial in identifying why or if MDMA has changed and why we all suspect it's different now.

 

[Glubrahnum]

I just tested another batch of white powder (not tan) sold as Ecstasy in Amsterdam and the results are:
77% 2,3-MDP2P Glycidate
8% Methamphetamine HCl
0.6% Dibenzylketone
0.003% Methylmercury !
...and Excipients

Obviously, this will not be consumed.

P.S.
Most likely, this would not even pass the Marquis test.

 

[G_Chem]

Glubra, why are you the coolest? Just why.. I need to know man.. Lol.

Well.. Now we've got 2 for 2,3-MDMA.. To be honest that ticks a lot more of the boxes than isomers and as I said before it would explain the high availability of this supposed "mdma" and it's precursor.

What makes you think it wouldn't react the same on Marquis? I think your right but I think it'd still be close enough to fool people. If I had to guess I'd say it reacts straight to black with maybe a hint of brown like others have complained about..

As said before this would also explain the high dosage as well as lack of empathy/love. 2,3-MDMA has gotta be the most likely if impurities aren't the problem.

I will say, in regards to impurities, that I've seen complaints on product that seemed unlikely to contain impurities.. Which would lead us back to isomers (unlikely), polymorphism (seemingly unlikely too), or 2,3-MDMA (most likely of all in this scenario.)

Great job man, I remember saying I needed more proof on the 2,3-mdma theory and we just got it. I put off in the back of my head cuz I almost couldn't believe it (as I said before too) but I think I'm finally gonna put all my eggs in one basket here and say... "I think 2,3-MDMA is the reason Dutch mdma sucks!" Never thought I'd say that but I am.

I think what we have going on right now too is a mixture of things. We've variation amongst actual 3,4-mdma samples (isomers, impurities, and polymorphism) combined with people who've been using for awhile which does heighten tolerance to the positive effects, this was/is making it hard to pin point any one problem but there's a difference between crap mdma and so-so mdma which we need to remember.

Thanks glubskis, I'm gonna PM ya at some point so keep your eye on the box.

Edit- Also that mercury leftover may be the cause of the LTC we see. If not it at least tells us hg/al was used for the amination.

-GC

 

[anon65535]

Wow, 2,3-MDP2P glycidate wtf?! Where was the first one? I must have missed it.

How was that analyzed Glub?

The MDMA I had that was brown as shown was analyzed by GC/MS as 3,4-MDMA but I'm wondering now if they really could tell the difference via GC/MS whether it was actually 3,4 or not one of the regioisomers. But the fact that what you saw was actually precursor and not 2,3-MDMA is super weird to me.

What's good to know is that a lot of these contaminants ARE soluble in organic solvents like acetone. Methylmercury (NASTY!) is soluble in acetone so an acetone wash, cold or hot would capture that. Also, a lot of the potential contaminants from the glycidate like glycolic acid, acrylamide and others are soluble in these organic solvents as well. Clearly this step is skipped quite a bit in large batches and it may be leaving potentially very harmful and toxic substances in the end product.

Glub, EC said they would do a full scan as requested like 10 pages back. If I send in two samples, one washed, one unwashed, would you be willing to analyze it?

 

[G_Chem]

I missed the glycidate but that means same as the last sample. An easier to obtain precursor that apparently is being attempted to be used as is instead of getting MDP2P first.. Two fuck ups going on here.

-GC

 

[Beenhead]

I just tested another batch of white powder (not tan) sold as Ecstasy in Amsterdam and the results are:
77% 2,3-MDP2P Glycidate
8% Methamphetamine HCl
0.6% Dibenzylketone
0.003% Methylmercury !
...and Excipients

Obviously, this will not be consumed.

P.S.
Most likely, this would not even pass the Marquis test.

So let me get this straight. This pill had just the percursor? No 2,3-MDMA?

There were a couple topics I wanted to get in on since my last post.

MDA purity: I have 2 samples of MDMA one is probably only a couple hundred mg, but man is it beautiful looking. clear crystals that are maybe 20mg each.
My other sample is also white crystals, just not as clear as the other, though I have a gram of that.
Each are Canadian sourced.

My MDMA is champagne colored, and sourced from an American vendor. But I have no clue if they get it from the dutch or not. Its color looks much better than some of that brown crap I see from Europe (like what we saw in that pic above). Still need to find the time to analyze it.

My girlfriend from back when I rolled a lot in the early 2000s used to throw up every time she rolled, and often would not enjoy it until she did. I have often felt a bit queasy on the come up, and this was generally an indication that it was good MDMA, as the speedier crap doesnt do that to me.

G-Chem -

You think a lot of this is due to 2,3-MDMA being sold as 3,4-MDMA now? It makes a lot of sense.

But I dont get how the labs are missing it? In the JCS paper in 2006 you see that 2,3-MDMA elutes about a whole minute before 3,4-MDMA. Now, when you look at the fragmentation patterns, they are almost identical save for a small fragment at m/z 91. Since the spectra is not all that helpful, the analyst would see that there is something fishy going on when his MDMA internal standard elutes a whole minute after the unknown does.

The way the software works for quant is you make a your processing method to pick the peak at a certain elution time for processing, not a certain mass. I think the chemists would have to be exceedingly lazy to miss that.