Is anyone else feeling it?

[L2R]

if these things make you feel hopeful, great

now is there anything any of you are actually doing to bring on the age of aquarius?

 

[Ninae]

It starts with working on yourself. You need to put the oxygen mask on yourself first. Otherwise, I do meditation and prayer when I feel impulsed to. Which I always do when I reach higher states, as I can feel how it works.

I don't believe most will make a conscious choice. They will just unconsciously change for the positive. The ones who are consciously aware of it are more marginalised.

 

[Bagseed]

A good esotericist at times requires healthy logical functioning and an ability to apply the scientific method.

to me it seems that esotericists mostly take scientific data out of context (see the measured radiation to "prove" wave x) when convenient, while ignoring it when it's inconsistent with what they say.

in my post, I said that nothing can go faster than the speed of light, so no information about incoming radiation will reach us before the radiation itself, and thus, no one can predict it coming. so far nobody here has commented on this, I wonder why?

 

[Ninae]

That only considers the existence of the physical level. Thought is faster than the speed of light.

 

[Bagseed]

then you should be able to define "thought", how it travels and why it is faster than the speed of light.

 

[Ninae]

With a thought you can find yourself on the other side of the universe in a second. You also travel by thought when you leave your body in sleep and go to the other side of the world, etc. It doesn't need light years.

 

[Bagseed]

still you don't provide actual evidence that thought travels a distance. sure you can imagine a distant galaxy, but does that prove that you actually went there?

edit: re-reading your post, you haven't defined "thought" either.

 

[swilow]

You would think that thought is probably electromagnetic. So its unlikely that it will travel faster then light.

There is a way for information to 'travel' faster...

We're led to believe scepticism is a sign of intelligence so many like to define themselves that way (especially men who are laughed of otherwise).

Given that you are a female, aren't you making a pretty vast and sexist assumption here? Whatever though. Skepticism is not a sign of intelligence, just like beieving in things without requiring evidence is not a sign of unintelligence. Skepticism is not about disbelief, it is about strict requirements for belief. It is about questioning everything. To those with faith, skepticism might seem like an attack but it isn't; its just another way to view reality.

Still, when your consciousness is heightened it enables you to use more of your brain or all parts at once, and channel much more mental energy. And we still have this false choice between science and religion, meaning you're limited from exploring both and gaining a more whole picture.

If this is so, surely there would be a way to physiologically measure this increase in "mental energy" and increase in brain utilisation. I fear that if I suggest that, I am appearing close minded and overly masculine though.

 

[Bagseed]

You would think that thought is probably electromagnetic. So its unlikely that it will travel faster then light.

There is a way for information to 'travel' faster...

please elaborate

 

[swilow]

^Okay, I'm going to very crudely 'translate' something I have read. I think it was in one of Michio Kaku's books.

If I had two cubes in perfectly empty space, rotating in unison, so that when one presents one face, the other always 'meets' it with the same face. Seperate them over vast distances of light years, and I can still observe one of the cubes and extrapolate exactly the behaviour of the other, despite it being vastly distant from me.

Much of astronomy is derived from inference more then direct observation. Of course, this isn't strictly anything travelling faster then the speed of light, but perhaps it does indicate that the vastness of space can be 'overcome' to some extent.

Any arguments with this, speak to Michio Kaku not I! :D

edit: I should add, I changed the title so that syntax is correct.

 

[Bagseed]

^that is of course true, but one needs to know that the two objects are entangled in the first place in order to make a statement about the first one before being able to comment on the state of the other one. if one of the two cubes is already out of sight when you encounter the other one, how would you ever know that the second one even exists, besides waiting for radiation coming from it to reach your position (and now we are back to the limit of the speed of light )?

 

[swilow]

^Um.... I guess you can falisify such an example in many ways. Still, if space was perfectly homogenous and consistent, and you did KNOW both cubes positions from the outset, you could be reasonably sure of the position of the distant cube. But- I really don't think this is information, as a tangible, discreet element, travelling anywhere at all. Its an observation and then educated guess (at best) if anything.

I wonder if our bodies contain particles entangled with brothers far, far away...

 

[Bagseed]

But- I really don't think this is information, as a tangible, discreet element, travelling anywhere at all.

that's basically what I've said. if you know already, the information hasn't travelled anywhere, because you already have it

 

[-=SS=-]

^

I think this post relates nicely to the 'Schizophrenia vs Spirituality' thread. There's a reason why the majority of people stick to the trail and don't go wondering off into the woods, favoring skepticism and a more cautious approach to embracing new possibilities.. and it is completely natural.. lambasting people for it is ridiculous really. If everyone went off the trail we'd go extinct in a generation or two through breakdown of established mental constructs that evolve just like the physical body.

The pioneers of society go off the track too.. but not every one who goes off the track is a pioneer. Schizophrenia has its roots in believing everything that passes across your awareness, no matter how ridiculous and debased from the established mental constructs. Regular people fear embracing too much too quickly because they fear losing their minds. Again, a natural response really.

Skepticism has to work both ways. I find just as much reluctance among those in the spiritual camp in embracing new ideas as there is in the materialist camp. Few people like admitting they actually don't know anything for sure.

 

[-=SS=-]

No, I'm talking about a finite, spiritual dimension for which there is undeniable proof. But instead of encouraging people to cultivate and explore it, there is a huge resistance to keep things as they've always been.

I disagree, with both points. There isn't undeniable proof from a scientific or materialist standpoint, from which the majority of people operate. You can't expect people to embrace proof that can't be tested from within the material realm. The spiritual stuff requires one to be involved directly, and if a person/people don't want to do that then that's their choice to make. The second bit, I don't think there is intentional suppression.. I think it is the natural order of things. I don't believe we're supposed to really be involved in it (spiritual stuff).. that's not what we were made for as human beings, by nature.

Which leads me to my next point: there's a difference between skepticism and suppression. There's times I'll be in conversation with friends and I'll throw in some ideas I've had just to see their reaction, and suddenly it's like I'm talking to the wall. It's rare that they will acknowledge and try to understand what I'm saying - they just shutdown for no good reason.

Again that is a natural response, not a willful decision on their behalf. If a person has never been intrigued or drawn to this stuff they are highly unlikely to embrace it at the drop of a hat, because this stuff challenges a huge chunk of their worldview paradigm and questions about reality. I mean, what the fuck do you expect from them? If you think about it a little you'll see their response is perfectly reasonable.

It's weird because most people will associate spirituality with religion or yoga or psychedelics or schitzophrenia, without thinking for one second that anything and everything they are doing is effectively a spiritual endeavor. You'll say that's a really broad definition, but eventually it all comes back to some core mechanics which we are conditioned to push aside and ignore.

Well those involved in 'spiritual' stuff 9 times out of 10 come across as fucking mental. Again, what do you expect? It's like the pro-cannabis people who fail to realize the reason no one takes them seriously is because of them.. they are like walking adverts for why cannabis shouldn't be legal. And as in both cases neither camp realizes it is themselves who are the issue here, not the topic itself.

Skepticism is healthy. If someone is reacting with skepticism to something you've stated, take a step back and examine what you've actually said from their point of view. I'd be willing to bet that what you put forth 9/10 is a castle made of sand and the other person is well within their rights to challenge it.

Don't misunderstand me.. I'm a spiritual guy, not a materialist. We probably share a lot of ideas and have commonalities I'm just challenging your position.

 

[Ninae]

It's not that there's a problem with scepticism. It's when it limits, locks the doors, and bolts the windows to the view to anything that isn't officially "proven" that it's a problem. Especially when we have no textbook guide to the spiritual dimension in our world and it's upto the individual to explore for itself and share its experiences.

Scepticism can be considered an evil when it blocks someone off from knowledge that could be helpful to them. There's too many things to count that the regular person has knowledge of. Like learning how to release blockages in the energy centers which is very conducive to better physical and psychological health.

The sceptic standpoint just doesn't interest me as what drives me is to learn more about the spiritual things. So when I find something is not true I just move on and forget about it. But that doesn't mean I have no powers of discernment or never feel sceptical about things. That's not what faith means and not all with faith are blind believers. I just don't bring those things up or don't really see the point to.

 

[Ninae]

I think the object of the game is to wake up within the dream and become a lucid gamer. The descent into materialism is obligatory at first but no one HAS to remain that way.

 

[-=SS=-]

That's kind of my point though. Since when did the physical realm become the standard for knowledge? I understand that people are suspicious of anything related to spirit, but I don't think that should surpress our curiosity. Why is it okay that we're raised to think and behave in terms of inches and kilograms and light years (and more recently, likes and shares and comments)?

Well the material realm is apparent.. it makes sense to use it as the reference point given that we spend all our waking moments immersed in it. Subjective realms of experience can't be validated or compared very accurately between individuals, which makes for some great culture and traditions, but not so great for scientific testing.

Alright fair enough. So what do you believe we're made for?

Reproduction of the species and providing food for other organisms through decomposition. Anything beyond that is mere speculation. I know there's a tendency in spiritual circles to make it out that we matter.. it's one of our greatest fears as a species, that of our insignificance. But I do believe we've been made for a purpose, and that purpose is biological.

Do you mean predictable? Because there's nothing natural or reasonable about shutting yourself from new and potentially useful ideas. More and more I'm starting to think that they're doing it on purpose. I mean it's not like I'm clinically insane or anything - I'm not proposing to assassinate the president or to molest little girls. For example, I'll say something like "I hate that we have to eat three times a day" and they will shut me down with "because biology" or divert the conversation with something like "yeah I tried veganism for a month, but I didn't see the point." And you know, if it was someone else, someone respectable saying the same thing, they would sit back and listen. But since it's me, suddenly they feel obliged to fill my head with doubts.

I don't know if it's a matter of what or how I'm saying things anymore as much as it is the fact that I'm saying them at all. The other day I was talking with a family friend whom I hadn't seen for years but whom I always respected and whose company I always enjoyed. I don't remember exactly how the conversation started, she was telling me something about work (she's a lawyer in her mid 50's and lately she's been doing some volunteer work) and at some point she says "yeah that's all I can do now, serve the greater good" and me being me, I tell her it's not really volunteer work if she's getting some kind of emotional consolation out of it. She replies by saying that she genuinely likes to help others and that we only have one chance at this, at which point I ask her if she believes in reincarnation. "No way, we're here for however long we last and that's it," she responds firmly. Then I try another approach and I tell her that maybe we can't know for sure what happens in the afterlife, but we don't even care enough to explain what goes on during our life. "We don't really know how or why we get old," I tell her, "we just accept it. Just like we accept food and sleep and sex and money and marriage and violence and killing and wars and all that" and I could already see a slight panic in her eyes as she tries to reassure me that it's just the way things are. Here I am wanting to take the conversation to the next level, and she's blocked with some hollywood bullshit lol

Maybe she didn't want to take the conversation to the next level. You have to respect the right of people to not want to know about this stuff. It seems apparent from your posts that you're trying to push your beliefs on to other people.. you can't do that man, no matter how good you feel your intentions are. Sometimes conversation throws up an opportunity to plant a seed or two, but if you push anything too hard on people they naturally react against it. Again this is natural. If you're taking it personally then you're reading the whole situation incorrectly and you should re-evaluate your position.

The best thing you can do for people is be there for them as friends. When the time comes they may choose to bring stuff up or ask questions. But that time is not for you to decide, it's their life journey and you have to respect that fact. The more you push the more you'll push others away until you realize you're making a mistake. You can't expect a person who has not challenged things in their worldview to suddenly open up because you demand it in conversation.. that's selfish. Do you agree? Again if you want success at this thing you have to treat people as friends first and work from that level.. that point can not be stated clearly enough. Speak to them as a friend, don't try to convert, preach, lecture or demand curiosity of them.

 

[Ninae]

Not everyone will be on this ascencion timeline. There are also some younger souls who are on a descending arc. So it won't resonate with everyone.

 

[Ninae]

Well, that is normal, I hardly talk to anyone about these things in real life. Most will just come up with a cliche, like "religion is the root of all evil", or whatever they feel is socially acceptable or defines them. There aren't that many genuine seekers of truth for the most part even if it might seem like it.

The best chance is if you can get someone one-on-one. Then they might be more open to it. But in groups it's not really a good subject matter as it's so personal and something that can create arguments and a bad atmosphere. Imagine wanting to share a great spiritual truth you've just found with some random people, and if you're unlucky you might find you're talking to one materialist, one nihilist, one black magician, and one fundamental Christian.