Bupe I need help with a decision of dosing my subxone of 16mg a day!

[Phoenix_rising]

logriffy,my advice would be to take the 16mg first thing in the morning in one dose and wait at least 20 minuites before eating or drinking,my doctor said it was better this way as you would get the whole dose in one go and if anything get a better feeling,he told me that splitting doses would just reinforce the addictive behaviour of using multiple doses to get a fix...As i found sleep a bit of a problem he also told me that taking my dose before bed insted of morning may help with sleep. i hope this helps mate,and i hope you overcome your addiction.

 

[The Doc.]

logriffy,my advice would be to take the 16mg first thing in the morning in one dose and wait at least 20 minuites before eating or drinking,my doctor said it was better this way as you would get the whole dose in one go and if anything get a better feeling,he told me that splitting doses would just reinforce the addictive behaviour of using multiple doses to get a fix...As i found sleep a bit of a problem he also told me that taking my dose before bed insted of morning may help with sleep. i hope this helps mate,and i hope you overcome your addiction.

I know you mean well and everything you said is correct but she has been told its more addictive to take it multiple times a day over and over from different posters. She finds taking it once a day doesn't work as well for pain and cravings but splitting the doses works better since bupe is only effective on pain for the first 4 hours after its taken and if you have a fast metabolism you need a huge dose in the morning to last all day when you could have just taken a few small doses which give less side effects. What works for you won't work for everyone else we are all different and in different situations.

To the OP I know you already know less is more and that splitting doses can cause worse mental addiction compared to once daily dosing as you've been told it by 4 different posters. But don't be overwhelmed from all this information overload just continue taking what works for you right now then worry about tapering once stable. The only thing im worried about with the high dose is the fact the seizure may have been from the high dose of Suboxone. As adder brought up, high dose Suboxone has been known to cause weird neurological problems. You should bring that up with your doctor and ask if you should taper before doing so. Most likely its not the suboxone but best to mention your concerns to your doctor.

Did you talk to your doctor yet? I'm worried about you and want to hear why you had that seizure.

 

[logriffy]

I know you mean well and everything you said is correct but she has been told its more addictive to take it multiple times a day over and over from different posters. She finds taking it once a day doesn't work as well for pain and cravings but splitting the doses works better since bupe is only effective on pain for the first 4 hours after its taken and if you have a fast metabolism you need a huge dose in the morning to last all day when you could have just taken a few small doses which give less side effects. What works for you won't work for everyone else we are all different and in different situations.

To the OP I know you already know less is more and that splitting doses can cause worse mental addiction compared to once daily dosing as you've been told it by 4 different posters. But don't be overwhelmed from all this information overload just continue taking what works for you right now then worry about tapering once stable. The only thing im worried about with the high dose is the fact the seizure may have been from the high dose of Suboxone. As adder brought up, high dose Suboxone has been known to cause weird neurological problems. You should bring that up with your doctor and ask if you should taper before doing so. Most likely its not the suboxone but best to mention your concerns to your doctor.

Did you talk to your doctor yet? I'm worried about you and want to hear why you had that seizure.

Had my doctor appt today with the sub doctor and he said it was most likely from benzos. I had taken 3mg of xanax 3 days prior to the seizure and was convientely drug tested that day by the doctor as well. And when I failed he sent it to a lab and for some reason my levels were extremely high. Whatever unit it was he was telling me it was over 1000 units. Just from that small dosing? But anyway he is leaning towards me just having a benzos withdraw seizure. I am still kind of finding this hard to believe because I used to take 10 to 12mg of xanax a day and then wouldn't get any for days. This was when I was abusing them the most. My metabolism is also very slow. I am a 230, 5 foot 11 inch male. So not in the best shape lol. But I think also If I took my whole dose at one time in the morning, I would throw up everywhere lol. So I am not very willing to give that a try. I'm glad it works for you though. I am definitely enjoying the 4x a day 4mg and am hopefully going to be able to taper down soon. I feel I will be able to do so within a month or 2. I don't want to rush into and relapse but I am trying not to think like that because I believe it will cause a relapse if you are skeptical about doing it

 

[The Doc.]

Well good thing you went to see your doctor that very well could be the culprit for your seizure. Did you also get tests done and have scans done to make sure there's no unrelated problems?

Thats great your having better relief taking it this way tapering is a piece of cake when ypu dose multiple times a day. You can just make one dose only 3mgs then get used to that and drop another dose to 3mgs instead of 4. Its pretty easy to taper Suboxone and I bet now that your splitting your doses you could even get away with only taking 3 or mabye even 2mgs four times a day instead of 4mgs. But I don't see why you can't stay on 16mgs for a while I understand being an addict and needing that big dose to feel comfortable even if it was a mental thing. Large doses also block other opiates for days whereas smaller doses hardly block and not for as long. When you want to get high on a dose like 16mgs you need to wait at least 48 -72 hours before the blocking effect is gone so it gives you time to think about it before you go get high.

Xanax and Suboxone shouldn't be mixed but I'm sure you know that already so i won't preach to you on the dangers of benzos and opiates.

 

[logriffy]

Well good thing you went to see your doctor that very well could be the culprit for your seizure. Did you also get tests done and have scans done to make sure there's no unrelated problems?

Thats great your having better relief taking it this way tapering is a piece of cake when ypu dose multiple times a day. You can just make one dose only 3mgs then get used to that and drop another dose to 3mgs instead of 4. Its pretty easy to taper Suboxone and I bet now that your splitting your doses you could even get away with only taking 3 or mabye even 2mgs four times a day instead of 4mgs. But I don't see why you can't stay on 16mgs for a while I understand being an addict and needing that big dose to feel comfortable even if it was a mental thing. Large doses also block other opiates for days whereas smaller doses hardly block and not for as long. When you want to get high on a dose like 16mgs you need to wait at least 48 -72 hours before the blocking effect is gone so it gives you time to think about it before you go get high.

Xanax and Suboxone shouldn't be mixed but I'm sure you know that already so i won't preach to you on the dangers of benzos and opiates.

Oh yes of course mixing them is dangerous. I am constantly hearing it from the doc and witnessed my friend have a seizure from the combination. I am getting an eeg in a week or too but not the catscan. I think an eeg is more beneficial since my family is low on money we need to make the right choice. Already had an mri at the hospital too and it was clear. But yeah slowly going down to 3mg 4 times a day souds like a good idea as well. That will definitly he the next step! I think I should be ready to do this in about a month or so

 

[Mayn666]

Get Tex dude, 4mg that stuff is ceiling dose, if you take more its wasting. 4mg dose makes me "healthy" for day or two. If i took 8 or 16mg Tex its same if i took 4mg.

 

[logriffy]

Nah suboxone is way betbetter for recovery because of the naloxone. Subutex does not have naloxone so you could take it and then do an opiate. Making it completely pointless unless you don't actually want to get help. I personally like suboxone better because of the opiate blocker because I don't want to be able to still do opiates

 

[The Doc.]

Subutex blocks opiates too its a common misconception that the naloxone blocks opiates when that's not true. Its not the naloxone that blocks opiates its the buprenorphine (the opiate in Suboxone/subutex) that does the blocking. The naloxone isn't even active when taken sublingually and naloxone only has a half life of one hour therefore it can't be the naloxone doing the blocking since the blocking effect lasts for days. The naloxone was put in subutex and called Suboxone to help stop IV use of Subutex because naloxone is activated when taking intravenously. But it didn't work people inject Suboxone all the time because buprenorphine has a higher affinity for the opiate receptors than naloxone. Naloxone won't even help a person if they overdose on sub's because the naloxone can't take the buprenorphine off the receptors. This makes a buprenorphine (suboxone/subutex) overdose dangerous because a shot of naloxone won't bring the user back to life like it does to heroin/opioid addicts.

 

[logriffy]

Are you sure? Because that's what my sub doctor told me. But it is still true you can use opiates while on subutex though correct? Which renders it pointless

 

[The Doc.]

What no subutex isn't useless you cant take opiates while taking subutex the same way as if you were taking suboxone. If you take 16mgs subutex then take heroin later you wont feel the effects of the heroin because the subutex is blocking the heroin from working. Subutex blocks opiates therefore its not useless in recovery! It can has the exact same use as suboxone!

Your sub doctor needs to do some research he's living in the past!!!

 

[logriffy]

I don't know because I've done subutex then dope and still felt it so I'm not to sure. All I know 100% is suboxone is way more beneficial personally because you won't feel the affects of the opiate which is what you want for recovery

 

[The Doc.]

Well how much subutex did you take?? 16mgs?

 

[logriffy]

I only took 8mgs and it was also just a one time use. I hadn't taken any subutex prior to that time and took the 8mg and then did dope a hour or 2 later

 

[The Doc.]

Ah I see that makes sense that's why you felt the heroin that's only a one time dose of 8mgs which hasn't had time to build up in your blood stream. Had you taken 16 mgs or 8mgs for a few days you wouldn't have been able to feel the heroin because low dose suboxone or subutex don't block opiates. Subutex taken daily will block the same way as suboxone does. Ive taken 6mgs of suboxone before and been able to do dope not too long after. If you took any heroin after being on 16mgs for a while you wouldn't feel a thing the same goes if you had been taking subutex this whole time you still wouldn't feel the heroin.
Subutex and suboxone work the same way!. Haha sorry just trying to get my point across The only difference people notice when switching from suboxone to subutex is subutex constipates you more since the naloxone does ease constipation a tiny bit when small amounts are absorbed through the stomach.

 

[logriffy]

Ah I see that makes sense that's why you felt the heroin that's only a one time dose of 8mgs which hasn't had time to build up in your blood stream. Had you taken 16 mgs or 8mgs for a few days you wouldn't have been able to feel the heroin because low dose suboxone or subutex don't block opiates. Subutex taken daily will block the same way as suboxone does. Ive taken 6mgs of suboxone before and been able to do dope not too long after. If you took any heroin after being on 16mgs for a while you wouldn't feel a thing the same goes if you had been taking subutex this whole time you still wouldn't feel the heroin.
Subutex and suboxone are the same things. The only difference people notice when switching from suboxone to subutex is subutex constipates you more since the naloxone does ease constipation a tiny bit when small amounts are absorbed through the stomach

Yeah it makes sense now. And the naloxone is basically there to prevent IV. But since they both have buprenorphine it is a opaite blocker with a buildup. I've been taking the suboxne for a couple weeks now so if I stopped let's say tommorow, how long would I have the blocker in me if I had just stopped taking the 16mg. (I don't plan on doing it haha I am just wondering)

 

[The Doc.]

About 3-4 days with a dose like that sometimes more and even then the high will still be dulled quitlastse a bit it would take weeks to feel all the full effects you love about heroin. Same goes for subutex if you took 16mgs subutex for a few weeks you would have to wait the same amount of time. Gives you some time to think about things and change your mind before relapsing.

Yea your getting it now:D the buprenorphine does the blocking in both subutex and suboxone. Many doctors still believe the naloxone does the blocking but new research has shown otherwise. If naloxone only lasts for an hour how can it block for days?

 

[logriffy]

Yeah exactly. It doesn't make sense for it to last for a hour lol. But no I dnot plan on going back down that road. I've recently started to follow jesus and made him a big part of my life now which is giving me a lot of encouragement and motivation. Along with my parents. I couldnt dissapoint my religious figure over some worldy possession. I don't know if your religious or not man bUT it definitely helps in the process of recovery

 

[The Doc.]

Yea that's a good reason to be on a high dose of suboxone too because low doses don't block as well. I only take 2mgs and could do dope right after taking my suboxone if i wanted to but im in stronger state of mind than i was when first getting on it and one day you will be too. Until then stick with a dose that works for you and blocks opiates until you feel your strong enough to go on a low dose.

Do what helps my friend religion can be great for recovering addicts but no I am not religious. Although I believe in science and know everything has an explanation my choice not to believe in God has no relevance to my life. I simply find it more comforting to believe this all isn't a test.

Always Hold firm to your beliefs and don't let anyone tell you different either way your life is worth so much more than a bag of dope.

I just got your PM Ill message you tomorrow its late and im tired. But its always great to hear I've helped someone out

Lets keep in touch I would like to hear how your life is improving as it only gets better from here if you stick to the right path and keep your ducks in a row.

 

[logriffy]

I have another question. So I have recently started nicotine gum and was wondering what do yall think works better? The nictotine gum or a nicotine patch. The gum has been working great so far but I have also heard some good things about the patch as well from a friend in Iraq. He says he just slaps a patch on and goes into combat with a consistent buzz all day lol. Sounds a little better than having to constantly chew a peice of gum when I am craving. So I was wondering, from experience, which nicotine substitute works better?

 

[The Doc.]

I have heard the patch gives weird and sometimes frighteningly real vivid dreams and in my opinion I think the gum would be best because you control the supply of nicotine.

I'm not a smoker though so maybe someone else could chime in and give personal experience. I quit years ago cold turkey and never looked back. Now it's disgusting and pointless to me and I have no desire to ever smoke. I turn them down all the time even when I've had a few drinks I say no. Some find it easier to quit I find whereas others struggle with an addiction worse than heroin or crack mainly because cigarettes are everywhere.