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Mental Health Coming off Invega Sustenna (paliperidone)

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iridescent black are your symptoms gone?
My symptoms from the withdrawal - following the mushroom incident of 2013 - have pretty much all gone away. I'm still experiencing fatigue and low stamina (heart rate goes up dramatically whenever I run or go up stairs), but I noticed these symptoms were less severe when I had the most recent "low dip" about two and a half weeks ago. In other words, once the Invega Sustenna is totally out of my system, all my symptoms will go away - I think.
 
The only time I've took an antipsychotic is when its been forced on me in the hospital. For whatever reason doctors seem to think blocking your dopamine is the cure for cannabis psychosis when you recover naturally without the need for poisoning.
Its some kind of torture going from being high or extra high to being injected with an antipsychotic and probably does your brain more harm than good imo. A benzo would be a more humane way of treating someone with cannabis psychosis and would cause a lot less suffering.

Benzos don't do shit for psychosis in my experience. The right antipsychotic, when dosed properly, should not leave you feeling like shit; it should act as an emotional "dampener" of sorts (and both as a result of that and through other mechanisms, a sleep facilitator), allowing you to distance yourself from otherwise overwhelming emotions and commit to more long-term solutions (such as therapy, and possibly keeping a lower maintenance or PRN dose of AP to help you not end up overwhelmed).

I know that even now there are times I feel a huge relief when I take a nightly dose of Seroquel.

The layman's belief is that "dopamine == pleasure", but as with many similar ideas in neuropsychology, that's a major oversimplication. Dopamine isn't all good, much like any neurotransmitter; it plays a role in reward (or more precisely, the anticipation of reward), but equally in addictive tendencies (completely independantly from any subjective feeling of pleasure), compulsive behaviour, psychotic symptoms (e.g. hallucinations, false convictions, etc), and even in provoking some very negative emotions such as anxiety and feelings of persecution.
It's certainly not solely responsible for any of these effects, but in the same way, it's far from uniquely responsible for feelings of pleasure. You only need to look at the drugs the are reputed for producing the most intense, often indescribable euphoria (heroin and MDMA are the big two that come the mind, with meth possibly a moderate-to-distant third for some); none of them work solely on dopamine, and instead have either direct or downstream effects on a multitude of neurotransmitter networks (not limited to monoamine systems).
It's much that same as the similarly dogmatically held belief that "low 5-HT == depression", despite a large volume of evidence showing that the reality isn't that simple.
 
Benzos don't do shit for psychosis in my experience. The right antipsychotic, when dosed properly, should not leave you feeling like shit; it should act as an emotional "dampener" of sorts (and both as a result of that and through other mechanisms, a sleep facilitator), allowing you to distance yourself from otherwise overwhelming emotions and commit to more long-term solutions (such as therapy, and possibly keeping a lower maintenance or PRN dose of AP to help you not end up overwhelmed).

I know that even now there are times I feel a huge relief when I take a nightly dose of Seroquel.

The layman's belief is that "dopamine == pleasure", but as with many similar ideas in neuropsychology, that's a major oversimplication. Dopamine isn't all good, much like any neurotransmitter; it plays a role in reward (or more precisely, the anticipation of reward), but equally in addictive tendencies (completely independantly from any subjective feeling of pleasure), compulsive behaviour, psychotic symptoms (e.g. hallucinations, false convictions, etc), and even in provoking some very negative emotions such as anxiety and feelings of persecution.
It's certainly not solely responsible for any of these effects, but in the same way, it's far from uniquely responsible for feelings of pleasure. You only need to look at the drugs the are reputed for producing the most intense, often indescribable euphoria (heroin and MDMA are the big two that come the mind, with meth possibly a moderate-to-distant third for some); none of them work solely on dopamine, and instead have either direct or downstream effects on a multitude of neurotransmitter networks (not limited to monoamine systems).
It's much that same as the similarly dogmatically held belief that "low 5-HT == depression", despite a large volume of evidence showing that the reality isn't that simple.

My current belief is that if the human body produces dopamine, it shouldn't be deprived of it. Just as is the case with every other chemical in our body.
 
Then by your logic, we shouldn't take any substance that isn't naturally produced in the human body or has an effect on the levels of any that are. Your belief effectively rules out huge swaths of the entire field of medicine.
 
Then by your logic, we shouldn't take any substance that isn't naturally produced in the human body or has an effect on the levels of any that are. Your belief effectively rules out huge swaths of the entire field of medicine.

Your assumption of what I am implying is wrong. I didn't say any of that and have no idea how you came to that conclusion. I just said that whats already there shouldnt be wiped out entirely.
 
You said that "if the human body produces dopamine, it shouldn't be deprived of it", which to me implied you were saying that messing with the level of something naturally produced by the body is inherently bad. If you were only talking about the idea of completely preventing that production of a substance, then I did misunderstand you, and I agree. I don't really see the relevance, though; substances that do that (such as MPTP) do exist, and are considered poisons, usually rapidly producing very severe and pronounced symptoms (in the case of MPTP-induced dopamine deficiency, it would resemble severe Parkinson's disease), and in many cases death.
 
You said that "if the human body produces dopamine, it shouldn't be deprived of it", which to me implied you were saying that messing with the level of something naturally produced by the body is inherently bad. If you were only talking about the idea of completely preventing that production of a substance, then I did misunderstand you, and I agree. I don't really see the relevance, though; substances that do that (such as MPTP) do exist, and are considered poisons, usually rapidly producing very severe and pronounced symptoms (in the case of MPTP-induced dopamine deficiency, it would resemble severe Parkinson's disease), and in many cases death.

But who would ever say dopamine is a toxin? I admit I don't know much about it other than the "reward system" we hear all the time- but to put it on the same level as a toxin is reaching.
 
I never said it was. I was citing MPTP (which is a poison) as an example of a compound that does completely wipe out much of the dopaminergic system, and wondering in what way an effect of that kind (since you brought it up) was relevant to this thread.
 
I never said it was. I was citing MPTP (which is a poison) as an example of a compound that does completely wipe out much of the dopaminergic system, and wondering in what way an effect of that kind (since you brought it up) was relevant to this thread.

Oh wow I didnt realize you were saying a toxin wipes out dopamine. Didnt know about that.

Isn't anything involving the use of Invega, an antipsychotic that is causing undue stress to people in this thread, relevant to this thread?

Could it not be that wiping out dopamine is just as much a negative side effect of this drug as the others? The reason I like this thread is because people are posting more than just one word symptoms common with most drugs but also a slue of side effects involving loss of self. You wont hear much about this anywhere. I believe these more debilitating effects of the drug are caused in part by this eradication or lobotomy of the dopamine in the brain.
 
Besides blocking most of your dopamine it also targets one of your main 5ht receptors blocking serotonin aswell resulting in the massive depression that most people feel over the first few months.
I know myself I was almost suicidal for the first 4 months on the poison for no reason other than I was unable to get enough dopamine and serotonin. You've got to understand the science of what AP's actually do to your body and brain. I still don't feel brilliant or recovered yet at the 5 month stage, but I'm not suicidal and can notice the slight improvements each month.
Maybe thats down to curing some of the deficincies the poison caused or maybe thats with my body getting more dopamine and serotonin as each half life passes and new receptors growing back free of the poison.
In my case all I can do is try and remain as stress free as possible and stay off the cannabis while this stuff clears my system which looks like it will take another 4 months, 2 more half lifes. If only I could find myself a hobby or watch box sets or movies time might go quicker, but that's the power of the poison.
 
Oh wow I didnt realize you were saying a toxin wipes out dopamine. Didnt know about that.

Isn't anything involving the use of Invega, an antipsychotic that is causing undue stress to people in this thread, relevant to this thread?

Could it not be that wiping out dopamine is just as much a negative side effect of this drug as the others? The reason I like this thread is because people are posting more than just one word symptoms common with most drugs but also a slue of side effects involving loss of self. You wont hear much about this anywhere. I believe these more debilitating effects of the drug are caused in part by this eradication or lobotomy of the dopamine in the brain.

But Invega doesn't "wipe out" dopamine or produce effects at all approaching drugs that do, such as MPTP. All it's supposed to do is dampen (not eliminate) signalling in certain specific dopaminergic pathways, specifically those which act via D2 receptors. It's not the most effective mechanism of counteracting many types of psychosis (which is itself hardly an unambiguous term...but that's a discussion for another time) and is definitely far from the most effective antipsychotic by any standard, but it's unreasonable to liken it to neurotoxins like MPTP.

The lobotomy comparison is something else I've often read, and in my opinion is an equally gross exaggeration. A lobotomy completely physically severs the frontal lobe from the rest of the brain, breaking innumerable chemical pathways; there's no way that inhibiting a single receptor or even a single neurotransmitter system could produce the same effect.

As far as I've seen, the real problem with antipsychotics is a widespread failure in adapting the choice of drug and its dosage to the patient; AAPs, much like SSRIs, are frequently dosed borderline incompetently, often far in excess of how they should be. Psychiatric drug dosing is already pretty much a crapshoot (I don't think they even take the patient's weight into account), and depot injections do nothing but amplify the problem. It's hardly surprising so many people complain about side effects.

Generally if the medication you're on is sedating you so much that you feel like a zombie, or inducing dissociative symptoms (like the "loss of self" you mentioned), it's either not the right drug for you, or at a dose that is much too high.
 
The problem you're speaking of is real. To give a little of the other side though, schizophrenia is extremely hard to detect. With depression, it's comparatively easy to explicitly state what's going on, "I'm feeling sad most of the time and cry a lot". With schizophrenia, very few if any people have genuine insight as to what's wrong, simply because it's become an ingrained part of reality.

I mean, for instance, imagine going to a restaurant with your loved ones and seeing someone there who you comment about to those you're with. They don't know what you're talking about. How readily would you believe that this person is just an imaginary figment of your brain?

So even when someone is diagnosed, the doctor really doesn't have a great idea of how many domains of your life/existence the faulty thinking has spread to. Determining degree of illness is the next extra difficult endeavor (after finding out that the illness is present).

That's just the other side of things.

And I believe oral dosing precedes IM shots to ensure that there's no significant physical adverse reaction.
 
I feel sorry for those who have been given the shot and have no family members to fall back on to help them out.

The invega sure feels like it wipes out all of the dopamine and serotonin. That's what makes you feel good. (It's hard to tell if you haven't taken it) And after 51 days and the first half life gone, I have yet to feel a sense of well being. Only momentarily have I felt happiness, like when I laugh at a joke or something. It's pretty bad when you can't even enthuse yourself enough to play video games or exercise. I think this drug should be banned.
 
Don't think the poison is going to be banned anytime soon, they've brought out invega trinza. A 3 monthly injection, god only knows what the half life is on that.
It just goes to show the power of big pharma, all the bad reports for invega and the lawsuits against risperdone and they let them bring out an even longer acting form of the poison.
 
Don't think the poison is going to be banned anytime soon, they've brought out invega trinza. A 3 monthly injection, god only knows what the half life is on that.
It just goes to show the power of big pharma, all the bad reports for invega and the lawsuits against risperdone and they let them bring out an even longer acting form of the poison.
The half life of Invega Trinza is... 100 days !!!
 
^ Is that minimum or the maximum?

EDIT: Oh I see. "84-95 days following deltoid injections and 118-139 days" AND "dose range of 273-819 mg"

Boy, don't I fee lucky...
 
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Just passed the 5th half-life (counting 50 days between each)... approaching the 8th half-life (counting 33 days between each). I don't really know which number (25-50) to follow. According to my calculations there should be less than 3.8 mg of Invega Sustenna left in my muscles - which sounds about right. I'm trying to factor in the amount that's not in my muscles but is actually in, either, my bloodstream or affecting my receptors at the moment. I might have mentioned before, but I think I forced a lot of the medication out of my muscles by exercising a lot. This may be a good thing, though. Although I'm kind of in a depressive funk right now, the medication might be out sooner than anticipated if I keep exercising.

I've, fortunately, had enough motivation to cook for myself. Eating quite healthy. But besides that, I haven't had quite enough motivation to do many other things. I've been trying to force myself out of my comfort zone and talk to strangers, but lately that hasn't been happening as much. Just taking it one day at a time.
 
I am on about 180mg Invega Sustenna injection per month, just had my 3rd injection. I am also on 100mg Seroquel per night, been on it for almost a year. I also take Suboxone 4mg/day, and 100mg Librium per day. I take other anti histamines and stuff but thats the main meds. The rule of thumb is this...dont take long half life drugs for a long time. I have been on the Sub and Librium for 10 years with a short break once on the sub. I expect to die on the sub and Librium, but I think i will stop the Invega and Seroquel if I can. I am 38 years old, and Im also a targeted individual. As far as drugs go, I have been there and done it. It is never as bad as it seems/feels (withdrawal). Just FYI. One day you are hopeless, the next you are fully recovered. That will come, patience is hard but a must.
 
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