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☛ Official ☚ The Big & Dandy Ibogaine/Iboga Thread

What I'm saying is that if we were to really thoroughly compare some pure, isolated Ibogaine converted from say T. Orientalis or Voacanga Africana, then I doubt this material is going to be found as effacious in treating addicts as Ibogaine extracted from T. Iboga root bark! It just will have a different plant teacher element... and from what I have gathered, the effects from this purified Ibogaine extract from Orientalis are COMPLETELY different from anything I have heard of with Ibogaine from T. Iboga!


Julian.
 
^ I agree with you that it is not a "magic bullet."

40% is desire to quit.

20% is ibogaine resetting brain receptors and putting you on the right path. This includes the spiritual teaching the plant entity will impart.

The last 40% is the willpower and commitment to abstain from using the drug that was causing all the trouble in the first place.

This is how it worked for me, but there's not a chance I would ever underestimate that 20%!
 
^ The thing is, I think some people think that they only have to take ibogaine and any addiction will be banished. As with anything in life worth having, you have to be prepared to put a fair bit effort in yourself to get something worthwhile as a result. Don't know about setting quatiative values on how each contributes to the final result, but I wholeheartedly agree with tobala in that the actual pharmacological action of ibogaine is only a part of the whole shooting match, it also requires determination to free oneself from chemical enslavement. If you're just going through the whole thing so that your tlerance is reset back to zero, but then you will consider using again, then of course it's not going to work.


What I'm saying is that if we were to really thoroughly compare some pure, isolated Ibogaine converted from say T. Orientalis or Voacanga Africana, then I doubt this material is going to be found as effacious in treating addicts as Ibogaine extracted from T. Iboga root bark! It just will have a different plant teacher element... and from what I have gathered, the effects from this purified Ibogaine extract from Orientalis are COMPLETELY different from anything I have heard of with Ibogaine from T. Iboga!
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That is open to scrutiny on several points as far as I can see;

1) How purified are these extracts? Just that separating the iboga alkaloids is a long drawn out process & not something that practically achievable with 'kitchen chemistry' equipment, but requires a serious column chromatography setup to isolate a usable dose of ibogaine. Without such adherance to the separation process then the ibogaine is not going to be pure, but containing asignificant proportion of closely related alkaloids (and after conversion of the ibogaine precursor from V. africana by decarboxylation, you're not going to have the same minor alkaloids present, or in similar ratios as the extract from T. iboga. As such, it's not going to be a surprise that they are subjectively different anymore than finding that san pedro alkaloid extract is subjectively different to the alkaloidal extrac from peyote.

2) Just a quick look at the structure of ibogaine looks like there are going to be chiral centres in the molecule and while decarboxylation of the alkaloid from V. africana might result in a compound that has the same empirical formula as ibogaine, that in no way means that they'll have the same pharmacological response (as a quick example, unless drawn using a 3D representation of the arrangement around the chiral carbon atom, the dextro isomer of methamphetamine or MDA looks the same identical to the laevo isomer of meth or MDA respectively, yet because of that chirality, they are subjectively very different from each other.

I know we've had a similar disagreement about such things regarding synthetic/extracted DMT, but again, if the compound is ostensibly pure (eg greater than say 99.5 percent pure by assay) and has an identical absolute configuration about any chiral centres, then they are going to have identical effects, regardless of their original source. If this weren't the case, then pharmacology (esp molecular pharmacology, determination of pharmacophores, modelling of receptor sites, would be pointless as there would be no rational basis to it. As far as I'm aware, there is no evidence to support the idea that the identical molecule from different sources has differing effects ie ibogaine is ibogaine, regardless of its origin
 
^ It's impossible to say--the alkaloid content could vary between 1-5%, meaning you'd have to consume between 20-100 grams to get a full-on experience that would be induced by 1 gram of the pure ibogaine HCL salt.
 
I seem to recall hearing that the rootbark is significantly harder on the body than pure ibogaine.
 
^ That'll be because of the additional chemicals (alkaloids, weird glycosides etc) you get with the plant product. Again, comparing with mescaline, the pure salt isn't that nausea inducing unless the dose is massive, but with peyote it's more likely than not that you'll do the big spit due to the presence of isoquinoline alkaloids (they also cause facial flushing - the big blush I suppose you could call it!)
 
I know we've had a similar disagreement about such things regarding synthetic/extracted DMT, but again, if the compound is ostensibly pure (eg greater than say 99.5 percent pure by assay) and has an identical absolute configuration about any chiral centres, then they are going to have identical effects, regardless of their original source. If this weren't the case, then pharmacology (esp molecular pharmacology, determination of pharmacophores, modelling of receptor sites, would be pointless as there would be no rational basis to it.
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well, I don't know if there would be NO rational basis for these fields... it they represent some kinda basis, but only a meagre basis... I think.

As far as I'm aware, there is no evidence to support the idea that the identical molecule from different sources has differing effects ie ibogaine is ibogaine, regardless of its origin
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I'm aware of this, and propose that perhaps it is with Ibogaine as a compound that differences would be clearly ascertainable... when purified/converted/isolated from different plant sources.

I know that with Ibogaine in general, it is known that different sources will provide a different length of experience.

Evidence is beyond me at this point... but I think that if different sources of Ibogaine were tested and given to human volunteers, different themes in the experiences would be noted, different length of time in experience, different sort of come down length and so on and so forth.

Basically, I think that Ibogaine from Ibboga is more likely to have the hallmark, meeting the plant teacher, experience and be more therapeutic and the other sources of Ibogaine, from Orientalis and Voacanga would be just more "out there"... at least that's what I would expect to be the case based on talking to people who have worked with these plants.


Julian.
 
I get confused about this substance cause some say it is psychedelic others say its not??? Some say they have a "trip" and others say its way different!!! So whats the deal with this stuff does it have psychedelic activity similar to all the others??? I know it has power and its psychoactive but some say its like a dissociative really???
 
It's a psychedelic in the sense that ayahuasca is a "psychedelic"... people who work with these plants traditionally don't have a concept for the word "psychedelic"... which is completely a western word invented in the 60's.

Cultures who use Ayahuasca and Ibogaine treat them very seriously... nothing to be taken lightly... with Ibogaine, it is taken in a decent dose upon reaching puburty and just before death.

Ibogaine is not to be taken lightly... it is very, very strong and I would discourage any kind of experimentation with it until people actually have some experience with it by itself!

Remember, it takes about 3-4 days after taking it, until one can operate any kind of machinery (like a car!)

I would suggest people who are interested in it, take something like 1-3 grams of it, by itself, which is a pleasant stimulant dose to familirise themselves with its nature.


Julian.
 
d-Dexter-25 said:
I get confused about this substance cause some say it is psychedelic others say its not??? Some say they have a "trip" and others say its way different!!! So whats the deal with this stuff does it have psychedelic activity similar to all the others??? I know it has power and its psychoactive but some say its like a dissociative really???
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Oh yeah, it's a dyed-in-the-wool psychedelic. Some of the most extreme visuals I have ever seen, body-image distortions (a little weird at first, but then I got used to them), a somatic "electrified" feeling in the body (again, not unpleasant).

Nothing dissociative (in the ketamine sense) about it, at least at 10 mg/kg.

A moderate dose of ibogaine was kind of like a high-ish dose of LSD, without the depersonalization I get from the latter, and after a prolonged stimulant addiction I definitely felt some brain receptors were set back to default--or repopulated/reactivated--from what I know about stimulant addiction, I can't really explain the subjective beneficial effect.
 
What I felt about it is that it shuts off normal association with the body and so allows deeper contact with "the spirit".

Most people will find at a strong enough dose, that in its full power, they will have great difficulty moving or not be able to move at all.


Julian.
 
^ I just lost my legs, i.e., stair-climbing would have become a hazardous activity. :)

Looking back just over a year later, it was the coolest experience I ever had. My next (and probably last--but who knows?) is pegged for this summer, at nearly double the dose, hoping to reach "the spirit" you speak of.
 
I've been reading some experience reports on erowid lately & I'm struck by some recurring themes. One reporter described ibogaine as an ideal substance to allow you to break habitual behaviours ( as opposed to breaking addictions per se). If that's the case I'll be getting myself a dose of good health & when I have that then I'll have a dose of ibogaine - just to see you know - hopefully my brain will be reset - god knows it needs it.
 
fastandbulbous said:
I know we've had a similar disagreement about such things regarding synthetic/extracted DMT, but again, if the compound is ostensibly pure (eg greater than say 99.5 percent pure by assay) and has an identical absolute configuration about any chiral centres, then they are going to have identical effects, regardless of their original source. If this weren't the case, then pharmacology (esp molecular pharmacology, determination of pharmacophores, modelling of receptor sites, would be pointless as there would be no rational basis to it. As far as I'm aware, there is no evidence to support the idea that the identical molecule from different sources has differing effects ie ibogaine is ibogaine, regardless of its origin
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I have to say that just from knowing basic organic chemistry what u are saying makes a lot of sense. If a compound is exactly the same, has same chiral center, then it has to act identically on the body regardless of where it is from. It is the compound that acts on the body and there is nothing hidden in it to make it have a different plant teacher. If it were different then pharmacy or pharmacology would not be empirical, scientific fields but closer to something like alchemy. The way fastandbulbous explained it exactly how I always understood how drugs work on the body.
 
I'm interested to hear reports from people who have tried both Ibogaine root bark and the extract...

The reports I hear from the extract don't sound nearly as powerful as those I hear from the Root Bark.

So I would recommend those with experience with the extract, who want to go deeper with the plant teacher, try the root bark, as I suspect there are important alkaloids in the root bark which help facilitate a deeper experience with the plant teacher. At least, this is my suspicion.


Julian.
 
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Ive heard time travel is known to be an effect of ibogain. Forward and back, I read it in Breaking Open The Head, a good read, check it out.
 
Well, I have some tabernathe iboga root bark powder. I've been putting it in capsules and swallowing. I've had two experiments, one five grams, the next seven grams. The seven grams certainly had an effect, but I'd like to up it to nine grams for my next attempt. However, the seven grams did give me a peculiar kind of nausea, like my stomach was overflowing. So, my question is, without extraction, is there a brew recipe or other method of ingestion that might help my stomach handle a nine gram dose?
 
ganja god said:
Ive heard time travel is known to be an effect of ibogain. Forward and back, I read it in Breaking Open The Head, a good read, check it out.
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did you see any numbers when you went back / forward in time?
 
Iboga growing and harvesting

Ive been growing tabernathe iboga for six years. It traditionally harvested at the 7-10th year of growth. Im extremely excited to reap the fruits of my labor but I was wondering if anyone has any experience with the growing or harvest of this substance.. I think this will have a more special experience verses the IBoga that ive consumed from the market.. A more pure aspect. %)
 
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