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Can you help us figure out what the heck we are taking?

I also wanted to respond to the suggestion someone made that in order to determine whether or not this formula contains opioids, those taking this formula should take a urine test. While this won't do any harm, it will almost certainly not provide any sort of answer. The reason I say this, is that if indeed the manufacturers have merely swapped out methadone for a different opioid, they almost CERTAINLY would not have used a common opioid which would be tested for in a standard drug test. They would instead use a more obscure synthetic opioid which would not likely be part of a standard drug test. Thus, a negative test result would only indicate that the formula does not contain one of the few opioids which that specific test looks for. -DG
 
^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Why are you thinking along sage lines?
Unless you are thinking sage----->salvia divinorum---------->salvinorin A--->herkinorin

Is this what you were suggesting? Otherwise, I cant think of any reason why an herbal blend containing a sage species would prove helpful in opioid withdrawal.
 
herkinorin was my thought yeah, or some related compound therin.

i've often found a lot of the 'herbal legal' suppliers will stray as close to the truth as possible, claiming to contain a certain ethnobot when really it's just been pumped full of a synthetic reproduction or analogue of the ethnobot's active principle.
 
I doubt that it would contain herkinorin. There are cheaper fully-synthetics are relatively easy to obtain...

I am curious as to what this contains. Has anyone else taken this "chinese formula"? How do you that it once contained methadone?
 
Why not just take 2 or 3 of them and see if you catch a buzz? Why not just take them for a few days instead of kramtom and stop and see if you get sick? Why is it so hard for you to tell if you are taking a narcotic?
 
Yes I know it's extremely unlikely, but on the off chance it turns out to be ketobemidone I will buy up as much of that shit as I can :D
 
I have taken as many as 4 of them at a time-- you NEVER get a high on the new formula. People on the "methadone' formula felt great-- LOL many of them declared it their new drug of choice... it was quite amusing.

I am a retired anesthesiologist with NO license-- as in I can't order or do anything--- I am just like the rest of you ....I have no license to do squat...

I am actually loving this discussion-- it's so nice to have knowledgeable people give suggestions that actually make some sense!! Thanks... I guess that's why I joined here.

Oh and sorry I put the website on-- I had a feeling that was a no no-- but at the time I didn't know it was a way to get opiates...

So, for now-- the FDA has cornered a shipment to the US-- and they say it has a prescription med in it-- no word if it is a controlled substance-- but they are after the Canadian sender-- who was just sending the formula to a friend in the US. She's going to spill about it..why take the blame when you didnt know what you were sending..... So... there IS something in our mystery drug...
 
Notice any sedative, analgesic, antitussive, miosis or other typical opioidergic properties?

Were you taking it for opioid withdrawal?
 
riverhaven said:
I have taken as many as 4 of them at a time-- you NEVER get a high on the new formula. People on the "methadone' formula felt great-- LOL many of them declared it their new drug of choice... it was quite amusing.

I am a retired anesthesiologist with NO license-- as in I can't order or do anything--- I am just like the rest of you ....I have no license to do squat...

I am actually loving this discussion-- it's so nice to have knowledgeable people give suggestions that actually make some sense!! Thanks... I guess that's why I joined here.

Oh and sorry I put the website on-- I had a feeling that was a no no-- but at the time I didn't know it was a way to get opiates...

So, for now-- the FDA has cornered a shipment to the US-- and they say it has a prescription med in it-- no word if it is a controlled substance-- but they are after the Canadian sender-- who was just sending the formula to a friend in the US. She's going to spill about it..why take the blame when you didnt know what you were sending..... So... there IS something in our mystery drug...
Click to expand...

hmmmm interesting. So if this report is correct, then there is indeed a "prescription drug" contained in this formula- though prescription does not necessarily mean opioid related.
It just occurred to me that tramadol or one of its analogs might be the active in this formula- though the OP claims that users do not get any sort of high when taking it, only relief from withdrawal. If tramadol or an analog were involved, you would expect to feel something more from it (especailly for those that are not opioid dependent).

The more I think about and read about this Chinese Formula, the more I am intrigued. To the OP-is it known for a FACT, that the original formula (which apparently did get people high), contained methadone?
If it is indeed a fact that first formula contained methadone, then there are one of 2 possibilities...either of which confuse the hell out of me.

So, assuming formula #1 did have methadone and got people high. If this is the case, its pretty damn hard to imagine that there exists this new formula (which all reports I've read assert that this new formula is just as effective at totally eliminating withdrawal), doesn't contain any opioid at all. It just doesnt make sense. You'd have to believe that someone made some BS formula and threw methadone in it to make it effective against withdrawal, and then when he was caught, he was able to reformulate the product without any opioids, and still produce something that was totally effective against withdrawal. It just doesnt make any sense. If he had an "opioid-free" effective formula in the first place, why go through the trouble and risk of adding methadone.

Now the other alternative initially seems far more likely, and yet there is a major problem with this as well. Initially it would seem FAR more likely, that considering methadone was in the first formula, and that this new formula remains just as effective at alleviating withdrawal, he simply swapped methadone for a different synthetic opioid in this formula. However, if this were the case, how can it be explained that every report I've seen asserts that while this new formula totally eliminates withdrawal, it does not provide ANY sort of high. I even read a few reports from those that are not opioid dependent, and they state that they got no high at all from this product.

So, if the manufacturer simply added a different synthetic opioid to this formula that is strong enough and in high enough conentrations to completely alleviate withdrawal, how could there be no discernable "high" felt by those who take the formula?
Are there any opioid out there which will stop withdrawal in its tracks, but not produce any sort of "high"-even amongst opiate-naive individuals?
The only thing I can think of that even comes close to having this sort of profile is a partial agonist or mixed agonist/antagonist. For those on bupe maintenance, bupe totally keeps withdrawal at bay, but does not provide any real effect. However, I am not aware of any partial agonists (including bupe) that would not produce a high in an opiate-naive individual.

If you were to somehow get around this apparent problem of this formula being effective at stopping withdrawal, but not capable of producing a high, then I would be almost certain that we are looking at a partial agonist similar to bupe. Almost all users of this formula mention that they are unable to feel the effects of any opioid until several days after taking the formula. This would suggest some sort of partial agonist or mixed agonist/antagonist, with a very high affinity for opioid receptors, and a very long half-life.
It REALLY does sound just like bupe (though its clearly not bupe since people swallow these pills and bupe isn't orally active). However, even if it were a bupe-like substance that was orally active...how do you explain the fact that no one, not even non-opiate dependant individuals, feel any "high" from this.

Really really confusing.-DG
 
daddysgone said:
If you were to somehow get around this apparent problem of this formula being effective at stopping withdrawal, but not capable of producing a high, then I would be almost certain that we are looking at a partial agonist similar to bupe. Almost all users of this formula mention that they are unable to feel the effects of any opioid until several days after taking the formula. This would suggest some sort of partial agonist or mixed agonist/antagonist, with a very high affinity for opioid receptors, and a very long half-life.
Click to expand...

Which is why I suggested that it be administered a few hours before bupe to someone who is beginning to withdraw from methadone. A partial agonist with a higher affinity than buprenorphine would indeed be something.

Just wanted to chime in that tramadol is useless against withdrawal, at least from the points of view of myself and all my junkie friends.
 
what about some kind of peripherally acting opioid that doesn't really get into the CNS (like loperamide)? Also, what about a partial agonist that slowly breaks down into an active molecule (or is slowly absorbed), and has a very long half-life. Effects that come on very slowly may not be perceived as a "high".
 
Hello everyone, I've just registered here on Bluelight. I am the chronic pain patient that Dr.Riverhaven posted about and I am the one whose shipment of 40 CF5 ( which I sent by Purolator from Canada to a friend in need in the US ) is presently being detained by the FDA. The only thing I've heard regarding this matter is a message on my answering machine from a guy named Jason, from Purolator. What he said was," These supplements might be over the counter in Canada, but they could be prescription in the USA." ( I've been totally honest from the beginning and I told Purolator what was in my parcel. I told them it was a Chinese herbal supplement for treating depression and I gave them the list of ingredients that came with the capsules.) At this point I really don't know whether the FDA has tested, or is planning to test these capsules or if this is just kind of a routine thing they do every once in awhile with shipments containing "herbal supplements".

So the mystery of the CF5 is still a mystery! When I used the CF5 for a week just recently I felt better on them than I have for a long time. Because I need to be pretty high functioning most of the time I found that I still required some of my scripted oxys along with the CF5, but I also found that I was able to lower my dosage of the oxys very easily and I know I would have been able to stop them altogether within the next few days if I hadn't run out when I did. In my experience I found that the CF5 worked better the longer I was on it, suggesting a cumulative quality. One thing about the CF5 that really stands out for me is it's potent anti anxiety effect, and the long duration it has. It was fantastic to be able to go for hours without even thinking about dosing and it was equally fantastic to sleep so well and to not wake up in WD's.

I didn't have pinned pupils, dry mouth or constipation, and I didn't feel any kind of a "high". It really didn't feel much like an opiate to me at all, and the fact that numerous people have reported how easy it is to taper & even stop the CF5 just makes it more of a mystery. It just didn't feel like an opiate to me, but because we've all been told over & over again that the ONLY thing that can take away WDs is another opiate, of course it comes to mind that there could,indeed, be some synthetic or little known opiate in it that none of the regular tests would show.

I agree with Riverhaven that there might be a touch of naltrexone in this formula because I found that it really potentiated the small amount of oxys I was taking at the same time. I mean, for me to feel really great for several hours on just 10mg. oxy is hard to believe!( I normally would need 40mg. to feel like that and even that would wear off sooner than the 10mg. did.) Perhaps that is what the "prescription" type substance in the CF5 is, IDK.

I've been out a lot lately and haven't been able to get back to this Jason(from Purolator)by phone so the message he left me is all I have right now. He left me his email address and I've emailed him & asked for further clarification. I don't know if he works on weekends, maybe I won'[t hear from him until early next week. In the meantime I've ordered more CF5's just because they worked so incredibly well for me. BTW, I didn't notice any blocking effect when I resumed my usual oxy dose after I ran out of the CF5. For some strange reason the seems to happen with the people on kratom.

As Riverhaven said, the CF5 seems to be by far the best thing to come along yet for us opiate/opioid dependent/addicted people.....and so the mystery continues. I'll come back to post here when I have further information.
 
amanitadine said:
chinese "formula"? i think the active ingredient is melamine......;D
Click to expand...

Haha...you may be right, Amantadine. In the lab report they said they found a small amount of "acrylate" and "epoxy resin polymers" and "hydrocarbon wax". Does anyone here know if those are a normal thing to find in an herbal capsule ? Yeah, right, I realize that there probably isn't a lot of "normal" anything in some of these formulas from China~~~but I wondered if those substances could just be part of the glue or whatever holding the capsules together ?
 
4everfree said:
As Riverhaven said, the CF5 seems to be by far the best thing to come along yet for us opiate/opioid dependent/addicted people.....and so the mystery continues. I'll come back to post here when I have further information.
Click to expand...

It's not entirely implausible that this whole thread is an ad. I've seen this happen at BB.com a million times.

Then again, I sometimes think my cats are Castro spies, so take my comments in stride.
 
^^^Yes I agree, this thread could quite possibly be an ad.

"Dr. Riverhaven" posted a similar thread in OD.
 
emjay said:
Yes I know it's extremely unlikely, but on the off chance it turns out to be ketobemidone I will buy up as much of that shit as I can :D
Click to expand...

its working.

this is all just clever marketing. The only reports I've found that the "old" chinese formula contained methadone. demerol, whatever, are on a few boards, by the same peeps.....and they all make a point of saying what an untrustworthy guy the propietor is, blah blah....and then ask about the NEW CF......imagine the customer base you reach with a few posts on bluelight, drugs forum, opiophile, etc.

fuck this.
 
amanitadine said:
its working.

this is all just clever marketing. The only reports I've found that the "old" chinese formula contained methadone. demerol, whatever, are on a few boards, by the same peeps.....and they all make a point of saying what an untrustworthy guy the propietor is, blah blah....and then ask about the NEW CF......imagine the customer base you reach with a few posts on bluelight, drugs forum, opiophile, etc.

fuck this.
Click to expand...

It was a joke... there's no way it's ketobemidone and no way I'd buy this :p
 
perhaps it is a marketing ploy,

if you feel strongly about it file a complaint with the FDA or other regulators, as it is an unlicensed medicinal product being promoted for the treatment of a clearly defined illness without any efficacy or safety data.

U.S. Food and Drug Administration
Office of Regulatory Affairs
[email protected]

http://www.fda.gov/ForConsumers/ProtectYourself/default.htm

in the UK file a complaint with the MHRA

[email protected]

I wouldn't bother it doesn't seem to be causing a lot of problems. and if the BL readers go and buy it then more fool them
 
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