riverhaven
Bluelighter
- Joined
- May 1, 2008
- Messages
- 45
I tried posting about this on "other drugs" forum and I didn't get the kind of responses I was looking for. A buddy thought that the wizards on this forum would be a more appropriate group to pose our mystery to. We'd really like your assistance and suggestions, please.
A bit of background on me-- I am a retired anesthesiologist-- yes retired thanks to an IV fentanyl addiction a little over a decade ago. I floundered around for years and I found kratom. Then I found kratom extracts-- these are made in the lab, so you basically come out with just the alkaloids in the plain kratom leaf, concentrated. It is HIGHLY addicting and the withdrawals off the extracts is much worse than I experienced on IV fentanyl. So, like all good addicts, kratom addicts look for an easy way out of withdrawals and we had the chinese formula brought to the attention of the kratom message boards. The website is NO SOURCES - nuke. It alleges to be the aide to any kind of opiate addiction, including heroin. The list of ingredients is a bunch of chinese herbs, some of which are narcotic-like and some are pretty good mimics of kratom itself. The owner of the website though is afraid of anyone stealing his formula, so he personally told me he left out the key ingredients. Great.... so what the heck are we taking?? In the meantime, one of our members got a urine test while on this CF and it was positive for methadone and demerol-- but it was the older version of the CF-- the new version was supposedly taken to a lab and is certified to not have any controlled substances in it. Right....
Here are your clues-- I will try to keep my own bias out of this, as I did take this stuff and I have some pretty good ideas of what is in it. I'd really like to hear what you guys think it is. The important thing to me is-- gosh, if there was a pill that cut out all narcotic withdrawals-- what an awesome thing! You could lower the tolerance of chronic pain patients... you could go thru detox at home, on your own... just a million things go thru my mind about how great this would be. If only it is what it says-- a non-addictive, non-narcotic herbal remedy for opiate withdrawals.
You are instructed to take the pill within a couple of hours of when you expect to start withdrawing as the pill takes a long time to become active. However, this also tells me it can't have a big dose of naltrexone in it as that would throw us all into horrible withdrawals. Sure enough, if you take at least two capsules-- you get NO withdrawals at all. Kind of nice. The side effects are a racing heart ( caffeine is in the pills for some reason), a bit of a dry mouth and for some people, a lot of lethargy, for others it is actually energizing. We can't figure that one out at all-- nor can we seem to predict, based on what sort of kratom addiction you have, whether you will have lethargy or not.
One of our addicts is also a chronic pain patient who must take oxycodones. Her concern has been her ever increasing tolerance to her necessary oxys. The CF actually seemed to potentiate the analgesia she got out of her oxys and so she reduced her daily dose by a lot. However, when she stopped the CF-- she needed the exact same amount of oxys as before she tried the CF-- and it was over a week that she spent on the lower dose oxys with CF.
Those of us who are typical addicts and decided we wanted off kratom, only to undecide that a day later found that the CF made it so we got some of the effects of kratom- the energy and the pain relief, but none of us can get high anymore on it. When I put together the potentiation of the oxys and the inability to get high on our kratom-- I see ultra low dose naltrexone. Indeed- my own experiment with drinking, showed me I don't get high from that either. I've taken nal before and both times it made my desire to drink go up-- it's up now. You have to stop the CF for at least 4-5 days before you can get high on anything again.
Those of us who became addicts thanks to chronic pain do get a bit of relief on the CF-- but not enough to overcome the reason we went looking for kratom in the first place. If there is a narcotic in it-- it's not in sufficient quantity to block a lot of pain fibers. Also, it doesn't give you the warm fuzzies of taking an opiate.
A big concern in our group is just trading addictions. Quite a few of us found kratom to get us off suboxone that we got put on for an even more serious narcotic addiction. We've done the trade opiates route to get off them and we know it doesn't work. It was pretty dismaying to hear the old formula had methadone in it-- who wants to get hooked to methadone? And to get hooked with no warning?? We are tired of trading narcotic addictions. You'd be surprised how many sub addicts are now kratom addicts-- just to get off the supposedly easy to get off sub...
Is the CF in itself addicting-- it seems so. People have a lot of trouble coming off it-- they particularly can't sleep, they are on edge and even get some typical narcotic withdrawal symptoms like tearing, yawning, RLS etc. However, coming off it is way easier than coming off kratom extracts-- and that's why we are in the boat we are in. It's also not constipating, indeed it has very few GI side effects at all. The big thing for most people is the speedy feeling you get when you take more than two capsules at a time.
I'd love to say we have discovered the antidote to opiate addiction and that it would help everyone out there like the website says. It was sure nice to not have to take my kratom for the past couple of weeks and have no withdrawals. LOL but what am I addicted to now is the question? From the clues I have given you guys-- can you hazard any educated guesses? Have any of you actually tried this stuff, or know someone who did??
Please ask me any questions you need to help us figure this conundrum out. I realize that on Bluelight kratom addiction seems like a pissant addiction-- but to those of us struggling to live with it, it's hard... just as hard as any prescription narcotic addiction. We are the attempting to be functional addicts-- we have families and jobs, people don't even realize most of us use and use daily LOL... We'd like to keep it that way!! Like any other narcotic, kratom eventually depletes your bank account and turns you into a walking zombie living from dose to dose, just so you don't go into withdrawals...
Thanks a bunch!!
A bit of background on me-- I am a retired anesthesiologist-- yes retired thanks to an IV fentanyl addiction a little over a decade ago. I floundered around for years and I found kratom. Then I found kratom extracts-- these are made in the lab, so you basically come out with just the alkaloids in the plain kratom leaf, concentrated. It is HIGHLY addicting and the withdrawals off the extracts is much worse than I experienced on IV fentanyl. So, like all good addicts, kratom addicts look for an easy way out of withdrawals and we had the chinese formula brought to the attention of the kratom message boards. The website is NO SOURCES - nuke. It alleges to be the aide to any kind of opiate addiction, including heroin. The list of ingredients is a bunch of chinese herbs, some of which are narcotic-like and some are pretty good mimics of kratom itself. The owner of the website though is afraid of anyone stealing his formula, so he personally told me he left out the key ingredients. Great.... so what the heck are we taking?? In the meantime, one of our members got a urine test while on this CF and it was positive for methadone and demerol-- but it was the older version of the CF-- the new version was supposedly taken to a lab and is certified to not have any controlled substances in it. Right....
Here are your clues-- I will try to keep my own bias out of this, as I did take this stuff and I have some pretty good ideas of what is in it. I'd really like to hear what you guys think it is. The important thing to me is-- gosh, if there was a pill that cut out all narcotic withdrawals-- what an awesome thing! You could lower the tolerance of chronic pain patients... you could go thru detox at home, on your own... just a million things go thru my mind about how great this would be. If only it is what it says-- a non-addictive, non-narcotic herbal remedy for opiate withdrawals.
You are instructed to take the pill within a couple of hours of when you expect to start withdrawing as the pill takes a long time to become active. However, this also tells me it can't have a big dose of naltrexone in it as that would throw us all into horrible withdrawals. Sure enough, if you take at least two capsules-- you get NO withdrawals at all. Kind of nice. The side effects are a racing heart ( caffeine is in the pills for some reason), a bit of a dry mouth and for some people, a lot of lethargy, for others it is actually energizing. We can't figure that one out at all-- nor can we seem to predict, based on what sort of kratom addiction you have, whether you will have lethargy or not.
One of our addicts is also a chronic pain patient who must take oxycodones. Her concern has been her ever increasing tolerance to her necessary oxys. The CF actually seemed to potentiate the analgesia she got out of her oxys and so she reduced her daily dose by a lot. However, when she stopped the CF-- she needed the exact same amount of oxys as before she tried the CF-- and it was over a week that she spent on the lower dose oxys with CF.
Those of us who are typical addicts and decided we wanted off kratom, only to undecide that a day later found that the CF made it so we got some of the effects of kratom- the energy and the pain relief, but none of us can get high anymore on it. When I put together the potentiation of the oxys and the inability to get high on our kratom-- I see ultra low dose naltrexone. Indeed- my own experiment with drinking, showed me I don't get high from that either. I've taken nal before and both times it made my desire to drink go up-- it's up now. You have to stop the CF for at least 4-5 days before you can get high on anything again.
Those of us who became addicts thanks to chronic pain do get a bit of relief on the CF-- but not enough to overcome the reason we went looking for kratom in the first place. If there is a narcotic in it-- it's not in sufficient quantity to block a lot of pain fibers. Also, it doesn't give you the warm fuzzies of taking an opiate.
A big concern in our group is just trading addictions. Quite a few of us found kratom to get us off suboxone that we got put on for an even more serious narcotic addiction. We've done the trade opiates route to get off them and we know it doesn't work. It was pretty dismaying to hear the old formula had methadone in it-- who wants to get hooked to methadone? And to get hooked with no warning?? We are tired of trading narcotic addictions. You'd be surprised how many sub addicts are now kratom addicts-- just to get off the supposedly easy to get off sub...
Is the CF in itself addicting-- it seems so. People have a lot of trouble coming off it-- they particularly can't sleep, they are on edge and even get some typical narcotic withdrawal symptoms like tearing, yawning, RLS etc. However, coming off it is way easier than coming off kratom extracts-- and that's why we are in the boat we are in. It's also not constipating, indeed it has very few GI side effects at all. The big thing for most people is the speedy feeling you get when you take more than two capsules at a time.
I'd love to say we have discovered the antidote to opiate addiction and that it would help everyone out there like the website says. It was sure nice to not have to take my kratom for the past couple of weeks and have no withdrawals. LOL but what am I addicted to now is the question? From the clues I have given you guys-- can you hazard any educated guesses? Have any of you actually tried this stuff, or know someone who did??
Please ask me any questions you need to help us figure this conundrum out. I realize that on Bluelight kratom addiction seems like a pissant addiction-- but to those of us struggling to live with it, it's hard... just as hard as any prescription narcotic addiction. We are the attempting to be functional addicts-- we have families and jobs, people don't even realize most of us use and use daily LOL... We'd like to keep it that way!! Like any other narcotic, kratom eventually depletes your bank account and turns you into a walking zombie living from dose to dose, just so you don't go into withdrawals...
Thanks a bunch!!
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