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Tryptamines The Big & Dandy 4-HO-DPT Thread

cj187 said:
I tried this for the second time today. The first time I tried it I, snorted 25mg and found it underwhelming. This time, I took 80mg orally. It was much stronger this time, yet still felt unfulfilling. It was pretty intense at times, but it still felt like something was missing. After 4 or 5 hours, I snorted around 10mg of 4-HO-MET, which got me where I wanted to be.

Honestly, I'm kinda disappointed in 4-HO-DPT. It is pretty interesting, but it's very different from the other 4-sub tryptamines, and most psychedelics in general. It doesn't really give you a traditional "trip" like you would get from mushrooms or acid. I didn't really experience any euphoria, except maybe for some intense points during the peak of the trip. I have to agree with people who say it's most similar to DPT. It's the same type of trip, but with a different personality.

It doesn't feel "recreational" at all to me, but it does seem powerful. Like DPT, 4-HO-DPT feels very clear-headed, but then when it gets intense, you find yourself slipping away into hyperspace. I feel like it has the potential for a powerful breakthrough experience. I think this has a very steep dose response curve, where at a low dose you feel pretty sober, but reach a certain threshold and it becomes insanely intense. 80mg put me right on the edge of that point. At times I felt pretty sober, yet at certain times, it felt similar to ayahuasca. Take a low dose and it's not very visual, but take a high dose and you get intense DMT-like visuals.

I'm curious to see where 4-HO-DPT goes at high doses. I think that's the appeal of it, as it seems lacking at low doses. It's definitely not something you would use in the same way you would use other 4-sub tryptamines. I think around 100-120mg orally is probably where it becomes worthwhile.
Click to expand...

I concur with a lot of this; it certainly can be fun/euphoric but might disappoint at too low a dose. I took 95mg oral and was really good - just on the edge of very good indeed. Fully expect it to be transcendental with just a push further on the oral dosing even.
 
What the...that's a massive dose. 4-HO-DPT and DPT itself are some of my favourite psychedelics, yes, they can be a bit harsh on the comedown, but the kind of dosage you've done is ridiculous. Don't do this at home kids.
 
Kirkland, are you talking about 4-HO-DPT or diphenhydramine, sometimes called DPH? The latter is what's in the Benadryl you mention, while the former is a research chemical similar to the psychedelic molecule in mushrooms. They are entirely unrelated drugs.

Diphenhydramine is a deliriant and is not generally known for causing ego death like psychedelics. What it does cause, and what it sounds like you're describing, is called delirium. While they are both intense states, there are some very important differences between them. In particular, the ego death experience involves a loss of cognitive support for your sense of self, which can start out similarly to delirium at lower levels that tend to mostly include memory loss, but then becomes more distinct at higher levels as it can start to include things like misidentifying yourself and starting to believe that you are other people living other lives and, at highest level, completely losing a sense of self and just being one with your perceptions. There is more to the experience as well, but that aspect of it is central to it, and is part of why people seek out the experience to feel as though they've gone through a rebirth or expand their empathy or objectivity.

Delirium, on the other hand, tends to leave the sense of self relatively in tact. Rather, it's your ability to form coherent thoughts, recall accurate memories, and process objects in your environment that seem the most disturbed. The most common parts of the experience involve constantly losing track of where you are and who is or isn't real, much like you describe. It may reach a level of hallucination that feels as though you're traveling through other worlds, but even then, your identity tends to either feel the same or go unquestioned. This is a very significant difference to many ego loss experiences, where it's generally either quite clear that you're slipping away or you can feel very distinct identity changes such as suddenly feeling yourself as a person of totally different age, gender, ethnicity, or so on, or even suddenly feeling that you are an animal or some sort of alien being. So, ultimately, while both delirium and ego loss can result in some similarly intensely altered states of mind, they are very different experiences with different cognitive implications.

As for the positive emotional effects you're experiencing now, it may be worth noting that scopolamine, a natural deliriant, has recently been shown to have rapid-acting antidepressant effects like ketamine and other dissociatives, and this appears to be dependent on the muscarinic receptor antagonism that causes the deliriant effects. Since diphenhydramine works through this mechanism as well, it seems plausible that it might also share some of these effects. Though, this is of course just speculation. Regardless, I'm glad that you were able to get something out of the experience.
 
Ah, forgive me then, I had to ask since I was a bit confused by the wording and the dose, after effect duration, and described effects actually seemed to match up pretty well to diphenhydramine. However, this would certainly not be the first time a very high dose of a psychedelic has produced deliriant-like effects, and the effects you described in your second post sound rather very psychedelic indeed!

Well, based on what you say here then, I would say it does sound like you experienced extreme ego loss after all. Though I would agree that you had a bad sitter for it.... It sounds like she just wasn't very understanding of the experience, of course someone is going to act crazy while they're tripping that hard. But anyway, yes, that living through other peoples' lives and all that is just what I was talking about. The way it plays out varies from drug to drug and trip to trip, but it follows that same kind of theme. The way you describe it here sounds particularly deep and interesting, though it is consistent with my experience and what I've heard about from others with 4-HO-DPT being a highly visionary molecule, and I also find it interesting that you seemed to get some religious themes from it as I've often heard people describe with DPT. You've given me a lot to think about, so thanks much for sharing this.... In retrospect, and with all the details considered, the more delirious effects you described before do kind of make me think of some of my very high dose trips with LSD too, and since I've so far found all propyl tryptamines to give me some distinctly "lysergic" feelings I could see 4-HO-DPT reaching that with such a dose. The way you describe it does sound much more intense and convincing though, and I would expect no less of a full-strength tryptamine.

Also, while I simply cannot endorse any super heavy dosing like that, I must say, for you and also for others reading... that I don't think this dose was particularly insane, health concerns aside. That last point needs to be stressed heavily as this is a relatively unexplored chemical and there is no telling what sort of health problems it could present at what sort of doses, and since this is even a much higher dose than is typically recognized as a super high but safe dose with similar molecules, I would just say that extreme caution is needed and you should feel lucky to be alive and unharmed. However, just in terms of the dose-effect curve, it doesn't sound that bad to me.... As Kirkland said, it's "only" five times the recommended dose. I've taken 100 mg of 4-HO-DPT orally, and it wasn't even half as intense as 25 mg of 4-HO-MET. So, while a jump up to 500 mg still seems undoubtedly high, it really doesn't seem like just the craziest thing ever to me, and the kind of psychedelic effects describe seem like they'd probably be about what I would expect of it from that kind of dosage increase. As it is that this molecule has gotten a lot of peoples' attention and it does have such low potency when taken orally, I expect that this not the last time we will be seeing such doses attempted. So, was it a bright idea? We'll just say that's... debatable. However, I am thankful you survived it fine and grateful you came here to share what you learned.

Thanks for the report.
 
To Kirkland: Thank you for sharing! Sounds like you've had a quite an out-of-the-body experience! 8o
What about body load? Do you remember feeling your body at all, maybe on the come up? Any negative feelings you may have noted from such a dose, heart, stomach, headaches? Very curious...8)
 
Kirkland: Yeah, taking such high doses could potentially be dangerous...
Probably the trip disregulated your natural neurotransmitters workings, every neurotransmitter has a role played within the body as well as in the brain so thats why you're feeling it like that.

If I were you, I'd take it easy on stressful activities until feel better and eat more raw vegetables, take multivitamins daily, as well as take about 100mg of 5HT-P (to replenish serotonin) daily, about 80-150mg of Mucuna Pruriens extract (to replenish dopamine) daily, about 800mg of CDP-Choline (to replenish acetylcholine) daily, and I'd also take 30mg Noopept, 800mg Aniracetam, some Ashwagandha and Turmeric extract, and maybe 300mg Phenibut, all daily until feel happy and healthy again! :)

Please keep us updated on your condition!
 
Kirkland, unfortunately it is simply not possible to say what might be normal to experience after a trip like this, as this is as far as I'm aware the highest dose on record by a pretty good margin of a relatively unexplored chemical. The possibilities are essentially endless. This is something that has kept me concerned personally at the idea of consistently going further into molecular structures that are similar psychedelics but with lower and lower potency.... Just because something becomes less potent at 5-HT2A doesn't mean it does at other receptors, which can provide their own kind of drug effects. For example, 4-HO-DPT may be normally dosed around 80-100 mg, making 500 mg seem not that crazy for psychedelic effects, but 4-HO-DPT is based on the structure of psilocin which is normally dosed around 10-25 mg, which means that if 4-HO-DPT retains full potency at any of its non-hallucinogenic pharmacological targets then taking 500 mg could be like taking anywhere between twenty and fifty doses of that kind of drug. While I would imagine that this may to some degree also contribute to what makes some of these bulkier tail psychedelics more unique, it does make me worry about pushing the limits as well, and mostly for reasons related to what you are experiencing now.... After all, how in the world are we supposed to know what to expect after taking such potentially massive doses of a drug? It could very well cause lasting damage just due to off-target effects, not related to the psychedelic effects at all.

I don't mean to say this to try to scare you, it's just food for thought. Humans are pretty resilient, and even though what are you describing does sound like more serious aftereffects than I'd normally expect from a psychedelic, I wouldn't be surprised if you pull through fine once there's enough time between you and the trip. For now, I would just say follow Volsam's general advice, basically live healthy and sober for a little while and see if you start to improve, which I'd imagine you should. And definitely don't be afraid to share updates on your condition with us again.
 
I'd say a normal dose is going to more like 100+ by how much I can't say at present - that seems the begining and at normal doses I am not thinking this is likely particularly dangerous but great point about receptors not directly involved; this is of course true of just about any RC where the data isn't known - that you don't remember bodyload is encouraging since if other receptors one might suspect some activity at like 5HT1A or 2D were massively hit one might expect also expect bodyload related to that receptors subtype function...

500mg sounds way excessive I think the effects will grow quickly beyond 100, at the same time you have pulled through and even taking massive doses of known psychedelics (and trips of that degree) can be pretty tiring/draining and you could expect it to take a while to get back to normal. You say you have noted some improvement on the 5th and 7th. That much coffee alone I would feel too good.

It is done now so just consider this recuperation time; one thing sure to give symptoms is worrying and assuming you have done "permanent damage" - not only is the body resilient it is often self mending. A few older members might relate to thinking a physical or mental problem permanent or bound to get worse with time and to discover year on one had forgotten it after it left.

Sounds like quite a trip but while it's sort of good for the rest of us to know a huge dose has been survived edge up a bit slower next time.

I find even 300mg phenibut slightly unpleasant and generally it's not something advisable to take daily but generally all the advise is the same until you feel better
 
Yeah don't take phenibut daily, it will start to cause physical dependence eventually. For some it can cause dependence pretty rapidly and cause significant withdrawals, but for most it seems to take a while and be more benign. It can definitely be a very useful tool in helping to pull you out of a funk, but don't rely on it too much, if you use it, just use it as a way to feel better sometimes, it can definitely help to just get a bit of a respite from a negative state, to help you remember that you can and will feel better. I'd recommend no more often than once every 3 days, ie, 2 days off in between. Once every other day will slowly build tolerance but it relatively sustainable for a while too but do not go over that.

I wrote a usage guide for it in trip reports that might be useful: http://www.bluelight.org/vb/threads...prehensive-Long-Term-Synopsis-and-Usage-Guide
 
I find 55-60mg orally to provide an hindsightful good time, where I get majorly into music, same as with DPT Freebase oil which I smoked in a bowl of a weed pipe, with a screen (that are either for weed pipes or crack pipes) and a lot of cigarette packed to the top in the bowl (like when I was smoking freebase cocaine for 100 bucks a day, I'd make it myself from the best coke available here by delivery service...we're kinda at the end of the road, the final exit of the highway going north here, so crack is rarely sold as is, so crack pipes or those cheesy american fake roses made obviously to be crack pipes are nowhere to be found, that's funny when I hear there's a few vending machines for crack pipes and screens in Montreal. Anyway, DPT is usually obtaing as the HCL, 4-HO-DPT is several times better than 4-aco-dpt to me, no contest.

My next adventure is tracking down 4-HO-DiPT, I know where to get it, but as always I always have a lot of things to buy which are not soul medicine or outright medicine related, started to play my guitar again and bought a Peavey 100 watts amp with transtube tech, sounds exactly like an amp with a lamp, the distortion one can set and stop with the attached pedal to switch in between distortion and clean is ideal for my recent 40 riffs and song structures I came up on 4-HO-DPT 58mg which I recorded with FXBOX, all ya need is a jack to plug your guitar in your sound card's Input and FXBOX is a guitar amp emulator that's highly tweakable, it was amazing in the year 2000-2001, now it's out there, but yeah the clean to distortion easiness is good since I'm listening to so much Nirvana lately, I've written loads of riffs Kurt would have written circa Bleach and Incesticide era and some of In Utero I guess, I don't have it in me to write songs just for the hit factor, although Sappy (In Utero version that was cut from the album at the last minute was supposed to be the first single) is an example of song structure I'm playin with since I got this amp, which I now figured out how to plug to a sound card...the sound card's in the mail. My soul has seemed to come back from this 58mg 4-HO-DPT and 80mg of Ketamine IV, and 4 days later I dosed 30mg of 4-ho-DET and I felt I was cleansed of many bad circular loop thoughts I wasn't even aware I had. Now to get 4-HO-DiPT and 4-HO-MET, I got one dose of MiPT and I wish to mix it with something I don't have still...I haven't much of 4-HO-DiPT, I know it's around, I'm sure I looked at the big and dandy thread but I forget how it compares to what I already am experienced with (lysergamides, tryptamines) when it comes to psychedelics, I've got less experience with phenethylamines and my own country when banning nbomes banned a lot of staple canadian vendor psychedelics that were there for 17 years for us, I managed to get some 2c-b-fly and 2c-E but that is locked down in my safe, I'm sad I didn't get to find any bk-2c-b on time before October 31st. At least the tryptamine adventure is endless.
 
Just plugged 100mg of this after a small allergy test nasally.
Feeling of coming up is strong so far (15mins in)
I will report back in a few hours.
 
Actually just plugged an additional 100mg lol... this stuff definitely seems to have the same potency as DPT.
Substitution in the 4th position does nothing for potency for some reason unlike the typical Psilocin pattern.
 
So basically this stuff does not work via rectal administration is my 2 cents... felt a strong come up from nasal allergy test bump then not much from 100mgx2 rectal doses...
Sucks to waste such valuable material but it's good to know this ROA is ineffective.
 
I had read on another thread here on bluelight that plugging DPT works better than snorting.... but I have tested 4-ho-dpt pretty extensively...snorting works amazingly but I hate snorting anything so I was really stoked to try plugging it.
The initial allergy test bump had a strong initial effect but 200mg rectal did nothing but give a slight tryptamine come up feel with zero open or closed eye visuals for me or my tripping partner.
I would not have wasted almost half a gram of this material if didn't think plugging would have worked but it didn't for me or my partner.
I highly recommend snorting this stuff to get the most out of it...although I will be trying a 300mg oral dose at some point jyst to see how it compared to DPT in terms of oral potency.
 
I think 300mg oral is going to be a very strong dose; I gave up on DPT orally and can't remember all the details - had some success with the addition of harmaline although 150mg moclobemide + 125mg DPT was still really weak; the long and short of it is this is likely at least as strong as DPT and could be a fair bit stronger - DPT seemed variable orally but it might just be the case that both are just not super potent, but I would think out how much you want to dive in with personally.
 
120 mg orally was a nice trip for me. Next time I would probably dose 130 - 140 mg, but certainly not 300 mg, which seems like an awful lot.
 
That sounds about right; yet to push over 100 but it's just on the edge - any details on the 120mg trip Immad?
 
I've already tried 250mg nasally and found it epic and extremely visual while still being psychologically pretty tame.
I'm not worried at all about 300mg oral.
I've also taken 200mg DPT orally which was a lot more intense than I was expecting...I also barfed on the come down on thst one. Lol
 
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