The CWE War version Garbage Dump

[Nightmare Girl]

Dumping off-topic posts over here. Still debating whether to keep it open for discussion or just get rid of it all. Enjoy it for now while it remains open. - sexypartseven

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This is Philip and I'm sorry but you don't know what you are talking about. Codeine phosphate is very, very, very small and does dissolve almost instantly. Why do you think a trained doctor would tell you rubbish? You are one of the ones who was rude to Nightmare Girl. It's because you are arrogant and rude. Everything on the internet is crap. That's why she learnt it the hard way. I can tell her now though and I'll tell everybody here stop stirring it! You just lose it by doing that. It doesn't need it. The molecule is tiny, unlike salt or sugar. It's a common mistake to make but don't think you know more than me or her d. There's a good reason you can take 1.8 grams of codeine. You lost almost all of it with your stupid filtering technique. You'd die if you took that much if it was Rikodeine. Don't believe me, try it. I'm only trying to help but I rather thought you lot would be rude again and claim you know more. Doctors are taught about CWE and you are are way off base. So for fuck's sake don't stir it or make it cold. It should be tap water extraction.

Philip Crowley (check my credentials if you like, they are on the internet)

i suggest you stop abusing people yourself, insults like that aren't tolerated here - leftwing

 

[Nightmare Girl]

You can see for yourself that I'm a qualified doctor practicing in Adelaide. I don't care if I get deregistered I've had enough of this crap with people not being able to take drugs safely.

Doctors have studied CWE to make sure it is safe. They do that because they care even if some of them get all hot under the collar over it. They shouldn't, there is nothing wrong with taking codeine or any other drug. I take codeine sometimes and my wife, Nightmare Girl takes it daily. Most people don't even get addicted to it. The withdrawals are nothing. So stop worrying.

Here is the technique. Put tablets in tap water. Use about 100mls for 30 tablets. You don't need huge doses if you do as I have said. I should have said that earlier. Wait five minutes for the tablets to break up. Why do people here think they dissolve? They break up, you should learn chemistry Rolls, she knew that but was too polite to say so to you.

So wait five minutes then filter through a coffee filter. Rolls you don' t need stupid chemistry filters. Doctors have tested them and coffee filters are fine and just as good. We know because doctors have tested it over and over. We know what we are talking about trust me I'm a doctor Nobody can even prove I wrote this so I have nothing to worry about. So why don't other doctors tell you the same thing eh? They should but there is too much opiophobia around.

Well, okay filter and drink, that's it. For god's sake don't stir it. That as Juliet said, makes it lose it's salt. Why did you say she was talking drivel? Because you think she's just a girl with a pretty kitty avatar eh? Well you shouldn't underestimate her.

Philip Crowley GP

 

[diddymal]

@ Nightmare girl, I would think a qualified doctor would give better advice than "any other drug [is safe]". That is a very silly thing to say about any drug.

Codeine especially is a pretty addictive substance. So much so there is an online forum for Australian addicts, this article explains it some more. http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2008/01/09/2134752.htm

4,000 patients contacted him in just 4 years, seems pretty addictive to me.

 

[Nightmare Girl]

Addictive doesn't equate to bad for you. That's nonsense and it's me writing this not Nightmare Girl. I'm just using her computer. Why do you think that just because you can get addicted to a drug it must be bad for you? That's an old school of thought. Get with it.

Philip Crowley GP (see? it's me not her)

 

[rolls]

I really don't think I was abusive or arrogant, I am sorry if I came off that way. What I don't understand is you are saying codeine is inactive unless it is in a salt form eg codeine phosphate or codeine sulphate, and if you stir it (so it dissociates) into codeine and phosphate ions then it becomes inactive?

Surely the action of the hydrochloric acid in your stomach would cause the phosphate and sulphate to separate from the codeine itself? or are you saying the codeine phosphate stays as one particle and does not dissolve and this is what makes it active?

Can you please explain the science to me here, you are accusing us of being rude and arrogant but you yourself are far more rude than anyone else in this thread. If you are going to tell us we are wrong then please explain why.

If what you say is true then there would be a drastic difference from crushing tablets, stirring and leaving in cold water for 15mins then filtering, compared to quickly crushing, mixing with tap water and instantly filtering. Am I correct?

This is Philip and I'm sorry but you don't know what you are talking about. Codeine phosphate is very, very, very small and does dissolve almost instantly.

All you do is put it in some tap water and wait till it breaks up. It doesn't dissolve as you think

Hold on so does it dissolve or does it not dissolve, you have contradicted yourself?

For god's sake don't stir it. That as Juliet said, makes it lose it's salt.

Why does this matter? what effect does the salt have of codeine? isn't codeine codeine, why does it matter if its an ion or if its attached to a salt (sulphate, phosphate etc)

 

[bobert the man]

Addictive doesn't equate to bad for you. That's nonsense and it's me writing this not Nightmare Girl. I'm just using her computer. Why do you think that just because you can get addicted to a drug it must be bad for you? That's an old school of thought. Get with it.

Philip Crowley GP (see? it's me not her)

I'm going to jump in here quickly and back this person up. Substances that are addictive can in fact just be addictive, and not necessarily "bad" for you (though addiction is arguably pretty bad itself). The symptoms of withdrawal can take a physical toll on you, but if we're talking about long term damage, codeine and most other opiates are relatively safe.

Now, when you CWE, you run the risk of not extracting 100% of the acetaminophen. Yes kiddies, this can be very bad, even if its not a massive dose at once. A die-hard codeine addict will probably do 2/3/4 CWE a day, every day. This kind of liver bombardment builds up.

In terms of opiate damage, one of the only risks you run is the downregulation of certain things in your brain (im no biologist, but im sure downregulation is the word). Because your brain becomes so accustomed to being f*&$ed up all the time, when you quit opiates, there becomes a natural lack of dopamine and other "happy" chemicals in your brain. This is what occurs in ex-methadone and heavy opiate users. Even though they've been clean for years and have no physical symptoms of withdrawal, there can still be a prominent depression.

Beyond this and adulterants in street opiates, opiates in general are pretty safe. If I'm wrong, feel free to correct me though.

 

[Mr Blonde]

I can tell her now though and I'll tell everybody here stop stirring it! You just lose it by doing that. It doesn't need it. The molecule is tiny, unlike salt or sugar. It's a common mistake to make but don't think you know more than me or her you rude bastard. There's a good reason you can take 1.8 grams of codeine. You lost almost all of it with your stupid filtering technique. You'd die if you took that much if it was Rikodeine.

That was me, not rolls so your insult fell on deaf ears unfortunately.

1) Stirring helps because not all pills break up so well, some form a sludgy solution and stick to the glass and I found the easiest way to get it free before I pour it into the filter is with a spoon and stir it. How does stirring make it lose it's phosphate ion? Please, show me a reference for this.

2) I can assure you I am not losing almost all of it.

3) Of course I may have health concerns if I took 1.8 grams of dihydrocodeine... BECAUSE IT'S AROUND 2 TIMES MORE POTENT THEN CODEINE. I would be taking a dose far above my tolerance and putting myself at risk for an OD, I don't know why you even brought that up?

My husband is a doctor and it's illegal for him to tell me how to do it but once I figured it out he could refine it.

Then why is he now telling us how to do it? And giving us his name? It's illegal right? Aren't you concerned that somebody here could send off an email to one of the medical authorities in South Australia and get you in some hot water?

ETA: And here is the kicker, Philip; you and your wife are posting in the wrong thread. The thread she originally posted in was in Australian Drug Discussion.

 

[2muchpain]

what is all this crap about? I cwe often, i always end up with a clear liquid (apart from colouring from coatings) and see how much apap i'm getting out in the filter and relative to how much water i have put in. I know it is working also, i'm definately not losing a substantial amount of the dhc or codeine as i have also taken both these drugs on their own and know the effects on me and my pain. I always stir and always put in the fridge. I'm not ruling out anybodys hypotheses as i'm not a scientist, but really is this a cause for name calling. If these people are doctors then, what with the petty remarks, i'm glad that they are not my doctors! Come on people, grow up! Sorry mods if i'm treading on toes here but having read some of the recent posts i felt it needed saying. Pm me if i've overstepped.

 

[Mr Blonde]

^ Given that he is being arrogant and rude, and to top it all off in the wrong thread, I won't put it past you.

 

[2muchpain]

i just think cwe is about harm reduction and this thread is not the place for petty disputes that detract from that.

 

[Mr Blonde]

^ Exactly right. Plus the stuff he is saying isn't even correct science.

 

[2muchpain]

this is my last off topic post then back to harm reduction and cwe information that you can back up please.

Making observations about the effectiveness of this without backing yourself up is dangerous, as implying that the current method is useless may deter people from using it when it is an essential harm reduction method!

 

[Nightmare Girl]

I'm sorry if I treaded on toes. I just wanted to help you. Rolls it doesn't dissociate, it just loses it's salt there's a difference. I hope some people have got something from our posts but we give up. You won't listen to reason, you are too full of yourselves. Goodbye we won't bother anymore. At least try our technique and see if you don't get higher eh? You will. You think you know about chemistry but you know nothing. Arrogant bastards.

Juliet/Philip

 

[Nightmare Girl]

Well that was Philip now I'll write because I am despairing. Why won't you even try the our method? This method has been tested by doctors as we said. It is the best one. You pretend you know about chemistry but you don't know jack shit, yes you Rolls. What you say to impress people is rubbish when it comes to CWE. A salt is what makes codeine soluble. When you stir it it is no longer soluble and it doesn't come through the filter. It stays with the paracetamol. So you lose it. It can't possibly be soluble if it loses it's salt. So for fuck's sake listen and at least try it because you know nothing. That much was obvious from you last post. Well I'm sure there are a lot of people who will try it with good results. You probably intimidate them, you guys who always post. That's why they don't write. Well we've had enough of trying to tell you something and you coming back with poppy cock you know nothing about. Goodbye.

Nightmare Girl

 

[Nightmare Girl]

Okay we are back . Sorry about all the meanness. We did that to prove something which I am studying. Sorry about that again. Nightmare Girl really was mad. She studied chemistry and even wondered if the paracetamol could go collidal. Do you know what that means? It means it forms a suspension in the solution. That would mean the paracetamol would still be in the water. That's why doctors have studied CWE completely. We know people do it so we want to make sure it is safe. I promise we won't be mean anymore, I was just proving a point. People won't try something new because they think they know better. No disrespect it's just the way people are.

I just want to help you but you won't believe a word I say. You even direct me to crappy web sites. I'll tell you nobody knows a thing except Nightmare Girl who even made some mistakes herself. I was only able to tell her after she already worked it out. Otherwise it's illegal. Yes I've said my name on this thread but nobody can prove it's me I use her account. Now I'll explain the chemistry behind it as you wanted me to. The tablets break up in water not dissolve. If they were dissolved the water would be clear before you filtered it. The water needs to be tap water because contrary to what you think codeine is less soluble in colder water. All molecules are like that. Derr, says Nightmare Girl to that. Okay back to me. If it's cold it also filters too slowly. Codeine is so tiny it dissolves instantly in water. No need to stir at all. If you stir you will make it lose it's salt. This is completely different to it's ion.

If it loses it's salt if becomes codeine free base which is almost completely insoluble in water. That's why you guys say to take such huge doses. You lose most of it. Trust me you do. You all think you need to stir to dissolve it, you don't. It gets into the water almost straight away. You only need to wait five minutes and then filter through a coffee filter. That's it. No more to say. Once again sorry for being so mean but I had to be to prove a point about human nature. Nightmare Girl really was mad with you. You crap on about chemistry when you know nothing. I just said that for her. I am sorry for being mean. I hope some of the people who don't usually post will post and good luck, you really will get higher on less codeine.

Philip Crowley GP

 

[rolls]

Could we get the last few posts transferred to advanced drug discussion, I really would like to know the correct answer to this. I can't really debate what you are saying about codeine freebase being insoluble as I don't know enough about it, but the reason I questioned you from the start as I've tried both methods in the past and found absolutely no difference, cold water, icey water, warm water, crushing stirring the works and they all felt the same. Another member also reported the same thing, using codeine tablets vs doing a CWE. The only thing that made a difference was whether it was on an empty stomach or not.

I asked some fairly specific questions so if you could answer them one by one in a non abusive manor I would appreciate it.

You crap on about chemistry when you know nothing

You pretend you know about chemistry but you don't know jack shit, yes you Rolls. Well we've had enough of trying to tell you something and you coming back with poppy cock you know nothing about. Goodbye.

Arrogant bastards.

Anyone see the Irony here? I politely asked for an explanation to what actually happens (if I am incorrect) and you response with abuse, I hardly think I am the arrogant bastard when you two are the ones that spout on about having chemistry degrees and being a doctor. Everyone here has been polite apart from you two.

 

[dokomo]

If that person is seriously a doctor (which I doubt--grammar and composition are still pre-medical requirements in Australia, correct?) all I have to say is thank God I don't live there.

And give me a fucking break! Saying doctors have studied cold water extraction on codeine and acetaminophen pills to make sure that the process is safe for junkies is asinine. Show me peer-reviewed, published research or stfu about this.

On the off chance that you are an actual doctor--it does not matter, because your credentials mean exactly nothing here. Thanks to the anonymity of the Internet I could be the king of Monaco or a homeless bum. My point is, you need to drop this Chemistry superiority bullshit unless you are going to back each of your claims with reliable sources.

And you and your wife please get your own accounts so you don't sound like some multiple personality basket case!

 

[Nightmare Girl]

Drivel. How can chemistry be peer reviewed? Chemicals do whatever they do and nothing will change that fact. It's an exact science. You can't peer review chemistry. Yes doctors really do care about what you rudely call 'junkies'. Why shouldn't they? We care about these things, ask any doctor. At least any young doctor because there really are some arseholes out there and we are showing you and them up.

Think about that before you say any more crap about things you don't know about. Peer reviewed? do you even know what that means? Nonsense, that's all any of you talk. Why don't some of you sane people post and tell us if this method works for you. It does for us. Yes doctors take drugs too. It's harmless and why do you think this is in the wrong thread? It's all about CWE isn't it? That's what this thread is about isn't it? I rest my case. Nightmare Girl has had enough of you but I will keep writing until I've proved my point about the human mind and other things. If you worry about the grammer and spelling it's because I am dictating to her. She has had enough and thinks I'm being mean. Well I need to prove a point that people don't listen. Please speak up the rest of you who do listen.

Philip

 

[2muchpain]

i love this cwe war!-please see above re my posts! Yeah i thought of passing it to advanced drug discussion but i'm on on my mobile and can't post links or anything properly but would love to see what they said.

 

[Nightmare Girl]

Okay, Philip told you I am sick and tired of this. I do think he is being mean but what he says is true. I decided to say one thing to you all. What have you got to lose from trying one dose with our method? One dose? Come on, if it doesn't work better you've only lost one dose and you know how cheap codeine is. Just use tap water it is safe. Don't crush the tablets, you don't need to and it can be dangerous. Here we go, you'll be all up in arms about that one eh? Well it's true. Heat as you know makes things more soluble. So the paracetamol is more soluble if you crush them. Crushing really does cause heat. Anyway why bother? They break up in five minutes in the water. Then just filter and drink up. Happy highs eh? Go on, what have you got to lose?

Nightmare Girl