Stimulants VYVANSE MEGATHREAD ⬅ your Vyvanse thread has been merged here

[dthill670]

I always prefer dex amp in any form over things with mix salts and such. Granted I have found that doctors do not like to prescribe straight dexadrine, always going for the adderall. Makes me wonder if they added the levo amp to adderall to cause all the tension in your muscles.
Anyway, I like Vyvanse, to use normally I need about 70 mg in the morning to be productive. To have fun I gotta take like 200 mg and then another roughly 200 mg after awhile(I'm only thirty but I can't get down with staying up all night, that makes me feel like poop!)
ALSO, Having rigs around and having Vyvanse there is very tempting to me at least, but I always try to understand the drug before I do them. I wonder if people IV Vyvanse and then get high is because the Vyvanse eventually makes its way around to the stomach through the bloodstream? Just a thought.

 

[Scrofula]

If someone were to shoot Vyvanse, it would get converted into amphetamine in their blood, no stomach needed.

Your red blood cells do the conversion, not your stomach or your liver. But it means you won't get any kind of IV rush, you'd still have to wait for the conversion to happen. So there's no point in doing it by IV.

 

[Intense]

I am always surprised by the hate Vyvanse gets, considering it's the purest available, and the strongest. Most people who have an adverse reaction would think of the levo-amphetamine in their Adderall, with its still-unexplained quad-salt racemic mixture.

Some might recognize that a single broad crest of absorbed drug would be a lot more "even" and predictable in its effects, especially considering Vyvanse isn't affected by what you eat for breakfast, like both Adderall IR and XR. I think it's got the highest concentration maxima too.

Speaking of breakfast, I think half the kids out there complaining about what they think is a comedown are really feeling their blood sugar plummet, after it was held artificially high with the drug, and they weren't hungry enough to eat lunch. A long acting version helps with that.

Hopefully, everyone realizes that an active ingredient is not transmutated into something chemically alien in your brain when you switch the letters after the brand.

But dang it, you just can't snort Vyvanse, can you. Doesn't have the same resale value.

The purest would be Dexedrine, pure Dextroamphetamine. I would switch from adderall XR to that in a second if my doctor would prescribe it. Or I would at least try it as D-Amp is far superior and without the negative side effects. Vyvanse just doesn't translate to that for me.

I bodybuild so my blood sugar is something I monitor daily as I want to be as insulin sensitive as possible, and I'm eating 5-6 meals a day. The only way I can explain vyvanse compared to adderall is it lingers and is an uncomfortable up and down feeling. At least with adderall I know when and what to expect, and depending on how my diet/nutrition is, how effective it will typically be.


Edit: I will say I'm not going to completely rule it out, that would be ignorant, because body chemistry changes. For example I use to hate XR and only like IR. One day I may end up loving vyvanse in comparison. I also ran the same dose as my xr dose so maybe a small increase, say 30mg of vyvanse I would have better experience with.

 

[Intense]

Very interesting, thanks for the chart! I'm only going to take it with water from now on.
I've read about people taking Tums 30 minutes before Adderall in order to reduce the acid in stomach and make the medicine last longer, something like that. It works for some, but others said it gave them the worst headache ever for the whole day and only increased side effects. I'm not going to take any chances.

I would avoid taking tums or baking soda with adderall to potentiate the effects. Short term yes it works but eventually it?s going to offset the pH balance in your gut and you will start producing more stomach acid, then can interfere with the medication further. Just take it with a normal breakfast and don?t overthink the whole acidity thing. I advise against taking it with orange juice or vitamin c tablets but a breakfast with some acid producing foods isn?t going to render the med useless. You will typically barely notice a difference.

In the mornings I take my Adderall with 5 whole eggs or a cup of eggwhites, a half cup of oatmeal(unless I'm going lower carb), and usually a cup of "acidic" coffee lol. It still works fine.


My theory with headaches and negative side effects many people complain of with adhd meds is due to lack of hydration and a lacking diet. My gf would go all morning without eating and probably only have a coffee and then text complaining she doesn?t feel well, head hurts etc.. of course she is going to feel like shit! Then your body produces more cortisol and other things which can lead to fat gain and hormonal imbalance effecting mood and well being further. (That's greatly simplified btw lol)

 

[Scrofula]

You understand that Vyvanse becomes pure d-amphetamine right there in your blood, right?

I find steady levels of amphs help maintain steady (too high) levels of blood sugar. But I know how fickle that is, and not sure why I keep talking like a salesman for this shit. Eat whatever amphs you want kids.

ETA: but agree, skip the tums, it'll just be adding salt to your dehydrated body.

would go all morning without eating and probably only have a coffee and then text complaining she doesn?t feel well, head hurts etc.. of course she is going to feel like shit!

Exactly. Amphs raise blood sugar, but make you skip meals. You're gonna crash at the end just from blood sugar issues.

 

[Intense]

You understand that Vyvanse becomes pure d-amphetamine right there in your blood, right?

I find steady levels of amphs help maintain steady (too high) levels of blood sugar. But I know how fickle that is, and not sure why I keep talking like a salesman for this shit. Eat whatever amphs you want kids.

Yes I know the lisodex converts. In theory that sounds great, the bodies pH doesn't effect it etc. but it feels nothing like d-amp for me.


I see what you're saying though, kids can't abuse it, and for a good majority of people it is the superior med.

 

[edarrin]

Hello

Haven't posted on here for quite some time. I didn't have time to read the whole thread so I am unaware if someone has already suggested this.

Wondering if required dose was placed in large spoon. Add some protienagous (sp?) enzyme to the water. Stirr (not shaken) and wait a minute or two and theoretically viola-uncongigated dextroamphetamine ready to go. Sorry about the spelling-spellcheck?

My current best theory. Haven't tried it. Anyone have?

 

[Intense]

Hello

Haven't posted on here for quite some time. I didn't have time to read the whole thread so I am unaware if someone has already suggested this.

Wondering if required dose was placed in large spoon. Add some protienagous (sp?) enzyme to the water. Stirr (not shaken) and wait a minute or two and theoretically viola-uncongigated dextroamphetamine ready to go. Sorry about the spelling-spellcheck?

My current best theory. Haven't tried it. Anyone have?

Never tried it and don't care to. If I am going to take vyvanse it's going to be the oral route as it's intended. I wouldn't want to lose any of the active ingredient.


I guess it could work by trypsin and a buffer, but again you could lose active ingredient. I have never tried it though, and don't know what temp it would need to be etc..

 

[Scrofula]

Thing is, trypsin cuts after lysine, and should do the job no problem. but that's not what happens in your body. Trypsin is excreted by your pancreas (as a kind of pro-enzyme) but for some reason doesn't do the bulk of the hydrolysis.

You can buy trypsin and other proteases as a supplement, for people with chronic pancreatitis. I wonder if even using fresh pineapple or papaya juice would do it. But then I'd have to look up what papain cleaves and I don't feel like it. I'm sure there are hundreds of sites with threads on using enzymatic cleavage. A lot easier, I'm sure, to just eat it, and use the enzymes already in you.

 

[Bioshockszz]

I?ve found 2x dosing of vyvanse e.g. 30mg at 8am and 30mg at 11am works better than taking the whole dose at once first thing in the morning. If it take anything over 30mg at once my eyes become laggy but I don?t have this problem when splitting the dose.

The only problem is even when I take the second dose at 11am, I won?tget to sleep until 4am later, so the next day is a write off.

Does anyone have any tips for getting to sleep after vyvanse without more meds?

I feel Vyvanse really sorts out a deficiency of dopamine production that I have in my pre frontal cortex. I feel how a normal person must feel - focused, not spaced out, calm, in control, I don?t get embarrassed and go bright red. Only problem with is it can be inconsistent, there can be crashes, I can get jittery and of course the sleep issues.

Vyvanse has shown me what life can be like (it?s not a euphoric or high feeling, it?s just an enhanced me, at work and socially). The peak effect however seems to be 1-2hr after taking and it slowly fades after that.

I may have to try adderall XR, unfortunately Dex spansules aren?t available in the UK and Dex ir is really really bad for me - even when it is working it feels nothing like Vyvanse at all.

 

[Intense]

I?ve found 2x dosing of vyvanse e.g. 30mg at 8am and 30mg at 11am works better than taking the whole dose at once first thing in the morning. If it take anything over 30mg at once my eyes become laggy but I don?t have this problem when splitting the dose.

The only problem is even when I take the second dose at 11am, I won?tget to sleep until 4am later, so the next day is a write off.

Does anyone have any tips for getting to sleep after vyvanse without more meds?

I feel Vyvanse really sorts out a deficiency of dopamine production that I have in my pre frontal cortex. I feel how a normal person must feel - focused, not spaced out, calm, in control, I don?t get embarrassed and go bright red. Only problem with is it can be inconsistent, there can be crashes, I can get jittery and of course the sleep issues.

Vyvanse has shown me what life can be like (it?s not a euphoric or high feeling, it?s just an enhanced me, at work and socially). The peak effect however seems to be 1-2hr after taking and it slowly fades after that.

I may have to try adderall XR, unfortunately Dex spansules aren?t available in the UK and Dex ir is really really bad for me - even when it is working it feels nothing like Vyvanse at all.

I suggest taking your first dose early 8am then a second vyvanse dose around 9-10. That would help with the sleep issue. At least it has for me. It's a lingering drug for sure, feels out of my system but still unable to sleep. I'm just so used to that steep adderall comedown it was easier to plan for. I can definitely see vyvanses place, and that in the long run would be more therapeutic.

 

[AdhdAmphetamine]

Did you ever try this buddy? Im curious.

 

[CoastTwoCoast]

Any one else notice how Adderall doesn't work at all if you don't get enough rest? I was up early today, I could've used about 2 more hours of sleep. I took my medicine and didn't really feel it at all. If anything, I felt really sad and empty. It was a reminder of how important it is to get a full night of sleep or the medicine will be ineffective for the day.

 

[Mycophile]

How similar is Vyvanse to time release 12 hour Dexadrine and time release 12 hour Adderall?

I realized that either I'm pretty sensitive or my doctor prescribed too much cause he gave me 20mg instant release Adderalls and they started causing me to have really bad panic attacks (I should add that I did also experiment with doses as high as 40mgs).

I started cutting the pills into 4ths and halves and realized that the proper dose for me is really between 5-10mgs and anything more than that makes me freak the fuck out.

My friend suggested I try to get a prescription for the lowest milligram Vyvanse which is 10mg because it would slowly release into my system and be gentler but still give me energy so I'd like to try it, but my doctor thinks that (even though he's willing to prescribe it) my insurance might not cover it, which would mean that it would just be too expensive.

He's also willing to prescribe 12 hour time release Dexadrine and 12 hour time release Adderall, both of which my insurance will pay for, and so next time I see him if I find out my insurance won't pay for the Vyvanse I'm going to try for one of those.

How different really are the effects of Vyvanse from a similar mg dosage of time release Dexadrine or time release Adderall?

Would they be fairly comparable and probably able to give somewhat similar, gentler but more consistent results with those dosages rather that would be less likely to cause anxiety than the full blast of instant release 20-40mg Adderalls which cause me to have panic attacks??

 

[Hodor]

10mg of vyvanse should basically be unnoticeable to an adult human. That's equivalent to 4mg of d-amphetamine. Unless you were planning to re-dose them, in which case, yeah, they might be too expensive for your insurance to cover (vyvanse is officially intended to be a once-per-day solution, and each pill is priced accordingly).

Vyvanse (lisdexamphetamine) is not a time-release formulation, it is a pro-drug, so its molar mass is different from regular amphetamine. In fact, the lysine portion makes up roughly 60% of the mass of a lisdexamphetamine molecule, so 70mg of vyvanse = ~30mg of dexedrine. Converting vyvanse to adderall is harder, because vyvanse metabolizes into d-amphetamine, whereas adderall is pretty much a 3:1 mix of d- and l-amphetamine.
Someone who benefits from the l-amphetamine portion of adderall might find 70mg of vyvanse roughly equivalent to 30mg of XR adderall. Someone who'd do better on pure d-amphetamine might find it to be equivalent to 40mg of XR adderall, with less anxiety-inducing side-effects.

Now, unlike "true" extended release drugs, vyvanse doesn't release amphetamine at a constant rate, but it is still considered a very smooth experience due to the very gradual come-up and come-down. In fact, XR adderall or dexedrine might hit you quicker because these kinds of pills are often formulated in such a way that part of the dose is released instantly, to allow for a quicker come-up.

I'm still unclear on what your actual daily dose of adderall is, though? Are you only taking a quarter to a half of a 20mg adderall per day, so your total daily dose is just 5-10mg? Or are you basically taking the whole 20mg tablet over the course of the day, just divided into 4 doses of 5mg?

If the latter is the case, I would suggest switching to 40mg of vyvanse, or 15mg dexedrine spansules.

 

[Mycophile]

10mg of vyvanse should basically be unnoticeable to an adult human. That's equivalent to 4mg of d-amphetamine. Unless you were planning to re-dose them, in which case, yeah, they might be too expensive for your insurance to cover (vyvanse is officially intended to be a once-per-day solution, and each pill is priced accordingly).

Vyvanse (lisdexamphetamine) is not a time-release formulation, it is a pro-drug, so its molar mass is different from regular amphetamine. In fact, the lysine portion makes up roughly 60% of the mass of a lisdexamphetamine molecule, so 70mg of vyvanse = ~30mg of dexedrine. Converting vyvanse to adderall is harder, because vyvanse metabolizes into d-amphetamine, whereas adderall is pretty much a 3:1 mix of d- and l-amphetamine.
Someone who benefits from the l-amphetamine portion of adderall might find 70mg of vyvanse roughly equivalent to 30mg of XR adderall. Someone who'd do better on pure d-amphetamine might find it to be equivalent to 40mg of XR adderall, with less anxiety-inducing side-effects.

Now, unlike "true" extended release drugs, vyvanse doesn't release amphetamine at a constant rate, but it is still considered a very smooth experience due to the very gradual come-up and come-down. In fact, XR adderall or dexedrine might hit you quicker because these kinds of pills are often formulated in such a way that part of the dose is released instantly, to allow for a quicker come-up.

I'm still unclear on what your actual daily dose of adderall is, though? Are you only taking a quarter to a half of a 20mg adderall per day, so your total daily dose is just 5-10mg? Or are you basically taking the whole 20mg tablet over the course of the day, just divided into 4 doses of 5mg?

If the latter is the case, I would suggest switching to 40mg of vyvanse, or 15mg dexedrine spansules.

When you say this: "10mg of vyvanse should basically be unnoticeable to an adult human. That's equivalent to 4mg of d-amphetamine"...do you mean 4mgs over the course of about 12 hours? Or 4mgs in a 4 hour time frame?

Because I can tell you I most DEFINITELY can and do react very well to 4mgs or so taken every 4 hours and that's probably an ideal dose for me.

But if you mean 4mgs over the course of 12 hours? Yeah, that's nothing.

Well AT FIRST I COMPLETELY fucked up and didn't only try 20mg pills in one shot, but even 40mgs, and FREAKED THE FUCK OUT (I'm a VERY anxious person who also wants to quit coffee (but can't) and that causes me anxiety.

So regardless of what I am on i am drinking at least 6 cups of coffee which makes me freak out worse (actually, you will probably say I am crazy, but one reason I want the right dose of amphetamine is to quit coffee (I've done it MANY times before WITHOUT getting dependent on Dexadrine either, just fucked up again and got addicted to coffee again...I was able to do it with 2.5-5mg Dex tabs in 7 days and when I did it I was able to cut my Klonopin dosage down by 75% which is another motivation).

Anyways, to answer your question: once I realized my body could not handle 20mgs or even 15mgs of Adderall in one dose, I went down to 10mgs, but that was still too much.

The pills can only be divided evenly into 4ths, so that means anything below 5mgs won't break off evenly and you are taking tiny crumbs which is no good.

Today I even freaked out on approximately 9mgs of Adderall (I did also have 7 cups of coffee though LOL...NO QUESTION that makes it worse...)

I also freaked out on 7.5 mgs, but when it comes to that dose, 7.5 in 4 hours is about the most I can handle and MAYBE not flip out if I also take my Klonopin.

It seems that I REALLY should not have any more than 5mgs of either Adderall or Dexadrine in my system in a 4 hour period, and i'd probably be better off with 2.5mgs in that period, but in general, 5mgs SHOULD be ok if I were just to drink a little less fucking coffee.

So what I have been doing is trying to take 5mgs of Adderall 2-3 times a day, and I don't want to do it every day, or even every other day...as little as possible.

So based on that....what would your dosage suggestion be for 1) overall dosage and would you suggest 2) Vyvanse 3) Extended release Dex or 4) Extended Release Adderall??

Also, again, 5) is there truly a big difference between the way that a comparable dose of Vyvanse feels to extended release Dexadrine or extended release Adderall and 6) does that dosage chance dramatically if I have to choose extended release Dex/Adderall over the Vyvanse?

7) would you suggest extended release of anything basically over the short blast of an instant release pill, regardless of what it is for someone as anxious and sensitive to stimulants as I am?

Let me remind you again, I basically can't tolerate anything more than the equivalent of 5mgs of Dex/Adderall in my system over the course of a 4 hour period without risking a panic attack, but when I stick to 5mgs or less and don't drink too much coffee I often get good results.

(Sorry just a couple more questions...): 8 if your first suggestion happens to be Vyvanse but my insurance won't cover it, what would your second suggestion be for what I am looking for in terms of A) dosage B) Dex (instant or extended) C) Adderall (obviously MUCH lower dosage than what I'm on, instant or extended).

And 9) if I did choose to take 40mgs of Vyvanese (sorry these questions are endless...) and it lasts about 12 hours, approximately how many mgs of Dexadrine or Adderall do you think it might feel equivalent to in each 4 hour time frame??

(I reference stimulants that way since both IR Dex and Adderall last about 4 hours...)

Actually, when I was much younger I was prescribed 5mg pills of Dexadrine and functioned quite well on just taking 2.5mgs every 4 hours about 3 times a day, but sometimes I'd go up to 5mgs...so perhaps I should ask for that again since I trust it more experience wise?

And just so you know, I think I react WAY better to Dexadrine than Adderall.

Thanks

 

[Hodor]

So what I have been doing is trying to take 5mgs of Adderall 2-3 times a day, and I don't want to do it every day, or even every other day...as little as possible.

So based on that....what would your dosage suggestion be for 1) overall dosage and would you suggest 2) Vyvanse 3) Extended release Dex or 4) Extended Release Adderall??

A total dose of 10 mg of adderall spread out over the day should be equivalent to a single 20mg vyvanse capsule taken in the morning. If anxiety is your main issue and your insurance will cover 1 capsule of vyvanse per day, this would be a good choice.

Also, again, 5) is there truly a big difference between the way that a comparable dose of Vyvanse feels to extended release Dexadrine or extended release Adderall and 6) does that dosage chance dramatically if I have to choose extended release Dex/Adderall over the Vyvanse?

As I said, vyvanse is much weaker per miligram because more than half of the mass of each vyvanse molecule comes from the lysine. Again, 10 mg of vyvanse = ~4 mg extended release dexedrine.

(Sorry just a couple more questions...): 8 if your first suggestion happens to be Vyvanse but my insurance won't cover it, what would your second suggestion be for what I am looking for in terms of A) dosage B) Dex (instant or extended) C) Adderall (obviously MUCH lower dosage than what I'm on, instant or extended).

You probably can't go wrong with 10 mg of extended release dexedrine either. If you're already drinking coffee, I seriously doubt you need the extra adrenergic stimulation from the l-amphetamine in adderall.

And 9) if I did choose to take 40mgs of Vyvanese (sorry these questions are endless...) and it lasts about 12 hours, approximately how many mgs of Dexadrine or Adderall do you think it might feel equivalent to in each 4 hour time frame??

(I reference stimulants that way since both IR Dex and Adderall last about 4 hours...)

I'd expect 40 mg of vyvanse to feel equivalent to about... a total of about ~15mg of IR dexedrine or 20mg IR adderall, taken over the course of ~6-8 hours. Hard to say exactly, because vyvanse has a pretty slow initial come-up.

It's hard to say what works best for each individual patient.

Even ER capsules often aren't "purely" ER, but represent a compromise where a portion of the dose is still released instantly.
Some prefer vyvanse's very smooth and gradual come-up, where they can take the pill and only feel the onset of the effects 2 hours later. Others prefer to have a regular ER capsule that gives them an ever-so-small jolt of energy right after taking it, and keeps them at a relatively constant level of mild stimulation for the rest of the day. Others prefer the flexibility of being to able to re-dose small amounts of the IR version throughout the day as needed.

Actually, when I was much younger I was prescribed 5mg pills of Dexadrine and functioned quite well on just taking 2.5mgs every 4 hours about 3 times a day, but sometimes I'd go up to 5mgs...so perhaps I should ask for that again since I trust it more experience wise?

And just so you know, I think I react WAY better to Dexadrine than Adderall.

If it's worked for you in the past, then yes, I see no reason why it wouldn't work for you. If having to re-dose small amounts isn't inconvenient for you, then spreading out two 5 mg pills of dexedrine over the course of the day seems like a perfectly sensible - not to mention very economical - solution for your issues.

 

[crazedloom175]

Morphine.

 

[aspiringchemist]

Has anyone ever noticed inconsistency in the amount of powder in each capsule? Some googling brought up a few threads in other forums with various speculations on the issue though no definitive answer.

I am prescribed 60mg daily and noticed this morning that the capsules range from being nearly full to half full of the powder, a rather large difference. Now the next logical step would be to weigh the capsules and see if there is a major discrepancy as this was just by holding up to the light. Unfortunately I had to leave for work and have not had the chance yet but will tonight.

Before I go accusing the pharmacist of pinching the powder perhaps there is something I'm not aware of like condensing etc?

 

[aspiringchemist]

Alright well I weighed them and they all weigh 200mg (capsule and contents) despite the appearance of visual inconsistencies. One weighed 220mg.

Upon further inspection I noticed a few actually seem to have a plug of powder stuck in the middle giving it the appearance of being half full when you flip it over each way.

I also weighed some old 40mg caps and they weigh 200mg as well.

On a different topic I will say that I love vyvanse and it has changed my life over the past year I've been on it. However, consistently I only get 5 - 6 hours out of each dose. I know the d-amp is still in my body but subjectively it drops off hard and I literally can go to sleep at that point.

I've talked to my psychiatrist about it and he is adamant that increasing the dosage will increase the duration, hence the jump from 40mg to 60mg. But it just feels like I get a stronger peak effect without an increase in duration. At this time he is not open to adding an IR booster dose in the afternoon. Many days are spent trying not to redose, which I have done and been able to sleep just fine. Taking another of course leaves me without for a day. Hell, maybe that's a good thing for tolerance sake. Some mighty fine rationalization there lol.

I try to hold off taking it in the morning so the effects will last through the day but it's very difficult for me to do. I work 10 - 12 hour shifts and it really helps me in the morning as well.

I've also tried splitting the dose ~30mg at 7am and again at 12pm. This obviously increased the duration but the peak effect of each dose was incredibly diminished as to be expected. After being used to 60mg at once it was not nearly as effective. Also, just a pain in the ass.

I eat consistently throughout the day, stay hydrated etc. I wish there was a reasonable way to increase the duration or that I was one of those people that actually get 9-12 hours out of it. I'm almost not wanting to take it because it's so difficult to deal with the drop off but the positive aspects still outweigh the negative.