The Big & Dandy Deliriants Thread

The Big & Dandy Diphenhydramine Thread

Taken from wikipedia:

The deliriants (or anticholinergics) are a special class of acetylcholine-inhibitor hallucinogen. The term was introduced by David F. Duncan and Robert S. Gold to distinguish these drugs from psychedelics, such as LSD, due to their primary effect being one of inducing a medical state of frank delirium[1].

Effects

The delirium produced is characterized by stupor, utter confusion, confabulation, and regression to "phantom" behaviors such as disrobing and plucking. Other commonly reported behaviors include holding full and lifelike conversations with imagined people, finishing a complex, multi-stage action (such as getting dressed) and then suddenly discovering you had not even begun yet, and being unable to recognize one's own reflection in a mirror.
The effects have been likened to sleepwalking, a fugue state or a psychotic episode (particularly in that the subject has minimal control over their actions and little to no recall of the experience). This is a notable departure from typical hallucinogens.

Anticholinergics

• Tropanes
• Atropine
• Hyoscyamine
• Scopolamine

Disubstituted glycolic acid esters

• Benactyzine
• Dicyclomine
• N-Ethyl-3-piperidyl benzilate
• N-Methyl-3-piperidyl benzilate
• 3-Quinuclidinyl benzilate
• Ditran
• EA-3167

Antihistamines

• Dimenhydrinate
• Diphenhydramine
• Doxylamine

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[original post:]

Delirants = datura, nightshade, henbane, etc and contain atropine and/or scopolamine as their principle psychoactive components.

I know a lot of people don't enjoy deliriants, and that the proportion of bad trips to good trips tends to highly favor the bad ... but I've nonetheless been developing an increasing interest in this class of drug. They are one of the oldest type of psychoactive drug used by man (only alcohol has been used longer), and have a rich history of shamanic usage across the world.

Has anyone had any good experiences with deliriants? How would you best recommend using them to their shamanic/spiritual potential? Thanks!

There are a few threads like this, which you will find if you search.

From what i remember of the last one, it went like this...

I want to be like a shaman or something dude, should i take some datura?

OMFG why do you want to take that?

Because casteneda wrote about it and witches and shamans used it.

Yeah but it's fucking horrible, and you might cut your penis off.

Yes but i am not some punk, i am a psychonaut/pseudoshaman, and can handle it.

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Anyway, get a trip sitter if you really must.

Dude, dont do it.
\what if you cut your penis off?

I find datura useful for potentiating other drugs(especially opiates), but only when used in small amounts. Small amounts may make psychedelics feel stronger. I haven't done it enough to know for sure.


It's probably a very bad idea but I'd like to do a high dose of Datura someday, with several trip sitters to restrain me if necessary and call 911 if it starts to get out of control.

I would like to have a datura experience someday, just to see what it is like. Even though it sounds unpleasant.

I won't be doing it anytime soon though. If I ever do, it will be at least a few years from now.

I've try this in 1975. I ate a half pods worth of seeds. Yuck!! A very bitter taste indeed. Well, it's a very interesting drug although it really dries you out, to the point that water don't even quench your thrust.

The visuals, no i mean Hallucinations are very real!! 8( :
Let me explain; say your at full effects, all of a sudden you feel hungry. A smell comes from behind you, so naturally you turn around to see what you THINK your smelling. Right there in front of you is a table, with a full course meal on top of it, Whoa! I remember sitting down and eating, I could see, taste, feel, and smell the food. Not realizing that i'm actually hallucinating at all and sitting in my room at 2am.

Here's the kicker; the only time you realize you are hallucinating is when something distracts you, just like the smell of food did. Otherwise you feel sort of normal. Anyhow; So you hear a door open, you turn and see a friend coming into your house. He speaks, you answer, he say hey man you want to smoke a joint? Sure I do. So you smoke it and really feel stoned. was he really there or not. Well you happen to remember you where just eating and turn back to find that the table full of food is gone. whoa!

Thats when you realize you are on Datura and had a hallucination. As you turn back to see that no one is there ether.

Thats the best i can describe what Datura did to me. She was kind to me thank god, and my good nature keep me from loosing it i suppose.

It lasted me for 24+hrs with 3 additional day of very poor vision. Then as usual I felt normal myself again.

As you can guess from my account, Datura can be quit dangerous if take'n in the wrong set and setting or major city i.e. you may think that a freeways overpass, is actually a swimming pools diving board! Worse case scenario, I know!

At that dose i felt heavy, very dry, but normal up in the head, just a bit confused. This is not a lets have fun kind of drug especially at the unknown dose i took. Although I had no fears or anxieties while i was under Daturas grasp. Would i do it again, maybe one more time in my life time and only if there was a sitter near by!

That's crazy Toltec. Could you mold the hallucinations like in a lucid dream? Or were they entirely products of your subconscious?

The only Deliriants I have ever tried is Diphenhydramine.

metasyn said:

That's crazy Toltec. Could you mold the hallucinations like in a lucid dream? Or were they entirely products of your subconscious?

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Exactly^^^ They where the products of my subconscious, I believe.

Things/scenes would just appear or be triggered, ether by a smell or a sound that I would hear.

I do remember falling. Insead of standing back up, I keep on trying to stand back up> on the wall. I really thought/believed that the wall was the floor! To again find my self falling back down. I think now I was cought in a loop.

In no way I believe I could have consciously tailor that trip. Because I really did not know that I was tripping until the next scene would appear to me. Then and only then I would forget that and become emerged into the next seen forgetting the last one. There where only brief moments of awareness between the scene. The person "me" before i took the drug. I think8( .
It is a very weird drug.

30 year lator I still remember that bizarre night. At least I think I do
That's probably why I really don't care for Deliriants, or how ever it is said.

You know i'm kind of glad I answered this tread because it has helped me come to peace with it!

I still wonder what was in those Orange Barrows I took in 1970! I'm still kicking my self in the ass for not buying a few hunded of them, when i had a chance too> 25$ per hundred

I say plan ahead ppl if you plan on exploring the Universe
Cheers

grisman1988 said:

i have done diphenhydramine at relativly high doses at a deleriant when i was stupid and desperate for a high. There is nothing spiritual or shamanic about these drugs. Deleriants make you exactly as is said delirous. They dont allow u to explore thought processes or other things which would make these a spiritual experiance. Datura was the only drug the great Jim Morrison couldnt handle so be careful with this one.

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I did dimenydrinate 2 or 3 times a week for about 2 or 3 months. Highest dose was I think 42 pills/really not sure though. I was never able to get many hallucinations and only once was there anything of a spiritual or cosmic nature.

It took at least six months for me to return to normal. For the first month or longer I felt somewhat crazy and slightly retarded. My memory was fucked up bad for a while.

I do think datura might be better. If I ever try it, it will be like I said in my previous post.

How to Have a Good Deliriant Trip?

Deliriants are the most unpopular drugs around. Only hardcore psychadelic-heads, shamans, and dumbass preteens (hay guyz if i taek 1000 benadrylzz will i trip ballz? lololol) have been known to use them. They typically produce vivid, dark, entity-like hallucinations. The hallucinations produced by deliriants are as real as it gets. You WILL NOT FIND any drugs that produce more vivid, realistic hallucinations than deliriants. You actually believe these hallucinations are real. You see them, you talk to them, you hear them, and you FEEL them. On something like acid, you say "woah, man, that's trippy". On deliriants, you say "woah, man, this is totally normal" because you think it IS normal. On acid, you might see the refrigerator talk to you and think it's hilarious... but you know it's just the drugs. On deliriants, you might TALK TO THE REFRIGERATOR for an hour and have a heartfelt conversation with it because you think it's your father. It's like being schizophrenic, only crazier. However, very few people seem to enjoy deliriants. Almost every single report ranges from "It wasn't very fun" to "I fell asleep" to "It was the worst night ever".

Everyone seems to always do drugs at night. In every single report I read, they took DPH or dramamine or datura at night. But I wonder: if you took a deliriant during the day (an especially sunny and happy day), would you have a better trip? Also, why not put signs everywhere that say "You are on drugs." and "You are immortal."? When I have my first psychadelic trip, I'm gonna put notes with "You are on drugs." and "You are immortal." on my wall.

Yet, a very small minority of people seem to think deliriants are wonderful. I guess drugs really do have different effects for different people. DXM (the only dissociative I've tried yet), for example, always made me feel weird and spacey, but some people seem to "trip balls" on it. Whatever.

So, I ask you, Bluelight... is it possible to have a good trip on deliriants? And how? I was thinking about trying DPH (Benadryl always had the opposite effect on me; when I was little, my parents gave it to me to help me sleep. It actually made me MORE hyper). But, right now, I'm too scared to try tripping on Benadryl. I already freak out every time I hear the slightest little noise in the house. I really don't need to see giant, evil spiders crawling all over me. Maybe some day... but not today.

Anyone here have a positive experience with deliriants that they'd like to share?

very biased material bro

Have a sitter. While I normally would say it's preferable with psychedelics to have someone experienced with you who is also tripping, and sober people are more often than not a nuisance, on deliriants you -need- a sober person. You will be delirious. You will likely walk into walls, trip over things, fall off of things, and oh-so-much-more.

I think that in a psychedelic state, you'll find things you wrote on the wall to be disappointingly shallow and totally meaningless. I'd recommend tripping outside.

In a delirious state, you will often find yourself totally unable to read. I'd recommend tripping inside, somewhere very safe, and away from any sharp objects.

um
on acid, ive never spoken to a refrigerator..

don't trip on deliriants unless you have two or more trusted sober trip-sitters who are able to restrain you physically. you NEVER know how your body and mind are going to react, and there are numerous cases of psychotic breaks occuring on these substances (resulting in physical, emotional, and legal self-harm)

OP: so you haven't ever done a serotonergic psychedelic (acid, shrooms, etc) ? if so, that explains your obsession over the visual hallucination aspect. The best parts of an acid trip are not the "whoa cool look at that spacey decoration", but rather the "oh man, i just realized how much i am like my dad, maybe he really IS just looking out for my best interests!".

true psychedelics make you open your mind and change your worldview. deleriants simply make it feel like you are trapped with your high school math teacher in a crazy pee-dream that won't end.

if you havent tried a psychedelic i dont think youre entitled to discuss what is and isnt a good trip/effects of droogs
just sayin.
and speaking as someone that in their younger days tried DPH like a dumbass, i would much rather see things that look real but you can get out of your mind and remember youre on droogs, instead of amphetamine psychosis hallucinations where you have no idea if what youre seeing is real but youre scared as shit no matter wut.
just saying.

probably not a good idea to implant the idea that you're "immortal" in your mind when you're under the influence of very powerful substances...

If you're looking for an indepth, first-hand experience, go to Erowid.org experience vaults and search for datura or belladonna. Those stories are some of the most insane things I've read.

TNT Explosion said:

probably not a good idea to implant the idea that you're "immortal" in your mind when you're under the influence of very powerful substances...

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agreed.
BTW dude your avvy is pimpin :D

Metropolisforever said:

When I have my first psychadelic trip, I'm gonna put notes with "You are on drugs." and "You are immortal." on my wall.

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Why?

Metropolisforever said:

Yet, a very small minority of people seem to think deliriants are wonderful. I guess drugs really do have different effects for different people.

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And.. maybe... people enjoy different things!

Metropolisforever said:

DXM (the only dissociative I've tried yet), for example, always made me feel weird and spacey, but some people seem to "trip balls" on it. Whatever.

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Take more? That's pretty standard for a lower plateau experience. People have different tolerances so you probably just need to take more than your friends to get to that level


With regards to doing deliriants, why do you want to? They aren't very popular even among "psychedelic-heads" or shamans because to most they don't have much entheogenic value compared to psychedelics. Also make sure you read up on all the side-effects because they can be *very* unpleasant and often play a big role in "It was the worst night ever" experiences. I'm not saying you shouldn't do it, but make sure you know what you're in for.

lol... really, deliriants aren't even psychedelics. I guess they are discussed here because they have such profound mental effects. they are dangerous mentally and medically if not used properly that is for sure.

I'd imagine the only way to have a good trip (in my sense of the word) is combining it with some other drug. This is dangerous territory, so I'd lower the 'normal' dose. In my experience, having to deal with someone on way too much benedryl while myself also on a large dose (more than once)... there is no fun in delerients. Maybe a fun memory, since memories are so biased towards remembering the good, and usually inaccurate because they mess up memory so much.

Bad things happen when people forget they are on a drug and don't think what they are experiencing is real. I once got sprayed by a fire extinguisher by someone on da Drill. I'll never touch one again, except maybe to help with sleep at a normal dosage. Rough on the body and head. So, no, you can't have a good trip on them. IMO/IME.