Kratom - should I buy it?

Kratom tinctures, drinks, and extracts are generally disappointing and a waste of money. If you decide to, go for straight powdered maeng da and buy a bag of capsules.

SwampFox56 said:

Again, great information about the understudied Kratom. It was a little difficult for me to read though. In the future, just for reference, you could probably get a lot more people to read your posts if you sliced that huge paragraph into two separate paragraphs.

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Lol trust me I'm aware, long story short if I forget to indent (which is usually something I do AFTER typing a post) my phone won't let me scroll up and add indentation, sorry

miscbrahh said:

haven't read this thread but my experience was that i'd have an ALL DAY hangover the next day, literally just lying down / sitting in a chair and trying not to move too much. no need to throw up but just felt so lethargic / bit of a headache. happened 2 or 3 times and i said never again

tried maybe 4 or 5 times, but i couldn't get the effects i wanted... don't know why i haven't tossed the stuff tbh, i guess it's cause i decided just to go find oxy (no next day hangover / easy to swallow pill / dosage is quick and easy / liked the high more )

good luck but it was just time wasted for me

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In all my years of use I have never had nor heard of people experiencing.any significant hangover unless they dosed to high and got sick, this can be avoided by using a scale and finding your sweet spot.

jackie jones said:

Kratom tinctures, drinks, and extracts are generally disappointing and a waste of money. If you decide to, go for straight powdered maeng da and buy a bag of capsules.

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This is good advice only I would reccomend not buying maeng da (unless of course you really enjoy it's effects) , on average maeng da is only .1-.2% more mitragynine by weight, sometimes even less, but it's priced WAY higher than what it should be, not to mention maeng da is typically very stimulating and rather lacking in the euphoria dept as opposed to the red veins which sound like what your looking for. Bali mitragynine content is 1.8% from my supplier while the more expensive strains average around 1.5%.

I had a complete trainwreck a few weeks ago. I was hospitalized due to not breathing. One full bottle smallest size and my second time too. Kinda flicked relations with my doctor.

Edit: f s t

Why would you down a full bottle of FST? That's pretty fucking stupid.if you ask me, alot of extracts contain a synthetic mitragynine analog called "mitragynine oxindole" which is a very potent mu agonist. If you stick to plain leaf OD is practically impossible, I've never even noticed any significant breathing problems when mixing plain leaf with benzos (not a reccomendation btw, for HR sake). Take it easy before you become the first to die from kratom, don't ruin things for those that are responsible.

CaptainKratom said:

Why would you down a full bottle of FST? That's pretty fucking stupid.if you ask me, alot of extracts contain a synthetic mitragynine analog called "mitragynine oxindole" which is a very potent mu agonist. If you stick to plain leaf OD is practically impossible, I've never even noticed any significant breathing problems when mixing plain leaf with benzos (not a reccomendation btw, for HR sake). Take it easy before you become the first to die from kratom, don't ruin things for those that are responsible.

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Stupid? Yes. Easy to do? Yes. Significant that I've taken so much oxycodone before and didn't end up with this issue? Maybe.

I don't want to end it though my family confiscated like 15 mL worth that I had left wanted an intense start to my weekend left with everyone including myself worried.

CaptainKratom said:

This is good advice only I would reccomend not buying maeng da (unless of course you really enjoy it's effects) , on average maeng da is only .1-.2% more mitragynine by weight, sometimes even less, but it's priced WAY higher than what it should be, not to mention maeng da is typically very stimulating and rather lacking in the euphoria dept as opposed to the red veins which sound like what your looking for. Bali mitragynine content is 1.8% from my supplier while the more expensive strains average around 1.5%.

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I think you may be right. Although I have tried every strain, I think that latter in my trials I tried maeng da and found it to work well, so I just stuck with it.

So I got those poppy seeds today. And wow... I'm really impressed to be honest. I did not expect the effects to be anywhere near as powerful as they are. Especially not with just 7.5 grams of the stuff and one wash.

Maybe the seeds I got were really high potency? The place I got them from claimed that they were brought back from Afghanistan by a soldier over there. I don't know how valid the story is, but I do know that the seeds smell very earthy, and do not seem to be washed at all. They're a mix of black and blue with what looks to be remains of the poppy inside the bag.

Anyways, I would compare this to 10 milligrams of Oxycodone. Has anyone else experienced this?

Everytime I've tried PST it never worked, perhaps I didn't get the right seeds. I was always left with nausea, lightheadedness, and a dry mouth with nothing to show for it. Just keep in mind that poppy addiction whether seeds or pods is a real bitch, not something you wanna get hooked on. You would basically be picking up a morphine and codeine addiction with PST, be carefull. Pods are far better than seeds though IMO. Were.the seeds.from a vendor or store bought?

CaptainKratom said:

Everytime I've tried PST it never worked, perhaps I didn't get the right seeds. I was always left with nausea, lightheadedness, and a dry mouth with nothing to show for it. Just keep in mind that poppy addiction whether seeds or pods is a real bitch, not something you wanna get hooked on. You would basically be picking up a morphine and codeine addiction with PST, be carefull. Pods are far better than seeds though IMO. Were.the seeds.from a vendor or store bought?

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Neither actually. The seeds were from just some random guy off the internet. Again, he claims that he knows someone who goes to Afghanistan a lot and that he skims seeds from the huge bags that poppy farmers keep.

Does anyone know if freebase Morphine or Codeine are unstable.

I ask because my first batch of Poppy Seed Tea (which I drank immediately) was exactly like some of my better Codeine experiences. Very noddy, very warm and nice and comfortable. But after that all the other teas I made were terrible.

They were actually minorly stimulating and anxiety-inducing. Probably from sigma agonism? Of the 'lesser' alkaloids of opium? I don't know...

Anyways, I'll be trying Kratom here shortly. I'll see how it compares.

Just wanted to add my recent Kratom story here, as posted in another thread. I abused it year back which was unfortunate, but now that its working again, its honestly an amazing substance when used correctly, with the correct expectations and caution:

I messed up my tolerance a year back with extracts and high doses, to the point when even the best shit did nothing except for extreme anxiety, waited a year without using any opiate and now I am fucking loving making tea with a lot of crushed leaves (not powder), straining/filtering and drinking over about 7 hours. Prob 7-10 grams of crushed leaves simmered for 10 mins and strained into 1.5 l water to drink over a extended period of time. (To be clear this is commercial plantation bali crushed leaves from that company that every kratom user is familiar with)

Been doing that for 3 weeks, 3 times a week (with off days, never more then 2 days in a row) and have had no tolerance or issues. I am so so happy i can use Kratom again, its amazing stuff in lower doses due to the clear headed euphoric calm stimulation.

Amazing for working and general mental performance enhancement, to me its like what amps should be, a magical combo of functional responsible stimulation, GABA cognitive enhancement and opiate type euphoria for the motivation. Its perfect. I actually cannot describe how happy I am that i can use Kratom again due to how functional it has been and how its kept me off the booze.

Seriously, do not risk your tolerance, its never worth the few powerful H type highs you will get before you loose the low dose Kratom specific magic for months or years. My biggest mistake was expecting Kratom to be an opiate and trying to dose it to be that for me. You need to have the correct expectations, or non at all before using.

Now I use it for what it is, which is a completely unique combination of upper/downer effects and when you realize thats its specific value, you can really start to enjoy it safely with the correct expectations, making sure not to use daily and to stay away from high doses or extracts or seeking that elusive opiate feeling.

Nice post blight12, thanx. Good info.

Got 4oz of Bali today. I'll tell you guys how I like it.

So wait...

Should I drink 5oz or 5 grams? No one really specifically says in the thread...

5 grams would be considered a good first dose, but it differs. For me i had to take like 20g for good effects but I was also expecting something different, is quite subtle if your new to it. For powered I would eat a heaped tablespoon with yogurt and see from there. For tea id just check 10-20g in a pot and boil it and drink slowly to see what its effects are and your dosage tolerances.

Tea is by far the best way, I dont think id be able to take another spoonful of kratom yogurt ever again and no more powder stuck on your throat or going in your nose. Its just fukin disguising and im usually fine with most anything. It starts off fine but it gets worse and worse. The powder is just unmanageable, its consistency make it difficult for any method of use, even for tea as you then cant strain it with a simple seive.

So I've had several cups of Kratom tea and I can honestly input on my experience of it now.

I bought Bali vein of Kratom from an online vender (won't say the name, but it their initials are AE) when I got it, I honestly was not expecting it to come in a pill bottle. I thought I had been shipped the wrong thing, but then I opened it up to find the thing absolutely over flowing with dried Kratom. It smelled really fresh and I could swear it has a hint of mint in it or something.

Anyways, I was excited, so I quickly measured out 5 grams like everyone said (which I found to surprisingly not even be 1/12 of the bottle - they really give you bang for your buck) mixed it with luke-warm water stired for like, 2 minutes strained it, then downed the entire thing. 5 minutes passed and I could swear I felt a tinge of something. So I waited, then I waited some more, and then some more and... Nothing.

I was kinda pissed off. I felt jipped and wondered why people online were raving about this stuff. Well, I went about my day and then later that night, I decided I try again, but with 8 grams. I decided that I should probably follow what people said worked best. So I put some water in my tea pot, dumped in the Kratom and brought the tea to a very soft boil to where I me it sit like that for around 5 minutes. This time, I strained it and decided to treat it exactly like tea. Put some sugar in it, waited for it to cool down a bit and then drank the entire thing in less than 10 minutes.

Within 5 minutes of finishing it, I definitely started to feel the 'adrenergic' side of the drug. It was totally unexpected. I started to feel rather jacked up than sedated. It definitely wasn't unpleasant, in fact it was incredibly smooth stimulation. In fact, I'd call it the smoothest stimulating drug I've ever tried. I had a whole bunch on energy with just a tinge of sedation to take the edge off. It was perfect. The only thing I didn't like about it was the fact that it gave me minor tachycardia.

Anyways, that went on for a bit and then suddenly... BAM. A huge wave of sedation hit me. I instantly felt the 'opiate' side of the drug. Comparable to 85ish milligrams of Codeine or 10ish milligrams of Hydrocodone. That's was I was looking for. It instantly brought my mood up made me tired, but not tired. It was like... Everything great about an opioid high, without the nodding. That was a little disappointing. I was hoping for a nod worthy high. But after reading everything - that's not what Kratom is. It's more like a speedball... Without having to take the speed lol.

This was at 2 in the morning, however, so I decided that I'd try to kill the stimulating effects as much as I could. So I took 50 milligrams of Diphenhydramine which definitely potentiated the opioid effects and made me even more tired, but still unable to sleep. So I decided (even though I had an opioid in me) to go ahead and take my Temazepam. Once I did that - the stimulating part of the high was all but killed. Instantly, I got the 'nod-worthy' high I was looking for. I felt so comfortable in my soft bed and warm blankets that I couldn't move much and slowly drifted off into the abyss.

I awoke about 6 hours later to a massive headache, sore muscles, and I was dying of thirst. I got out of bed and went to my bathroom in a haze and drank several glasses of water. I could tell, at this point, that even though I felt really 'noddy' when I had drifted off into sleep, that the adrenergic agonists in Kratom - while comfortable, didn't give me any sort of refreshing sleep. So I was sti incredibly tired when I woke up. So after I drank my water. I took two milligrams of Lorazepam, and went back to bed for another 6 hours. Eventually waking up feeling okay. I got up, ate something, and I noticed that I was actually feeling quite better than usual. Not as depressed I would say.

A couple hours later I went to see a movie and right before that I made a small batch if tea (just 2 grams) and went off the movie. I had a great time sitting there, but what really caught me off guard was the speed.

After the movie, I took one 20 milligram Adderall, and sat down. I sat there for 20 minutes on my phone and then I noticed the arcade across from the theatre. I decided to go and glance inside. When I did, I noticed that all of the games there were $1.00 or more per game so I was about to head out, but then I caught a lonely Ms. Pac-Man machine sitting in the corner. It looked like it hadn't been touched since the 80's. It was only 25¢ per play and I happened to have a couple quarters in my pocket. So I blew the dust off the joystick, popped one of the quarters into the machine and booted up the game.

Instantly, a wave of nastolgia hit me and I actually started to feel obligated to play well. Like it would be disrespectful to history of this machine not to try my best. So I started playing... and I strafed playing really fucking good. I was advancing past every stage, getting all the fruit, not dying. I was so into the game that I literally forgot about everything else.

This kind of focus is something I only ever experienced when I first started my stimulant ADHD therapy. The small amount of Kratom had actually brought the magic back to Adderall. It felt so good, it was like honeymooning with Amphetamine all over again.

After 30 minutes of non-stop playing (and only 1 life left) I started to notice that I was getting close to the high score. I instantly knew that I HAD to beat that and put everything I had into beating that fucker. I got another level further but I was so far into the game, and the ghosts had gotten so hard to avoid tha I didn't think I was gonna make it. I started sweating like mad and shouting at the game "Cmon you peice of shit! MOVE!" All four ghosts had me surrounded and were moving in on me right at the same time as an Apple appeared right in front of Ms. PAC-MAN. I though I was dead and screamed "NOOOOO!!!" Right at the top of my lungs, but got the apple literally as the ghosts died. Sending my score up to 200,000 and giving me an extra life! I couldn't believe it! I went bezerk lol. I screamed as loud as I could "YESSSS!!! HOLY FUCK! YESSSS!!! HOW THE FUCK DID I SURVIVE THAT?! YES!!!" I still didn't live much longer after that, but I got the high score on the machine, and walked out of the arcade feeling like a pimp.

This gif couldn't better represent how I felt when I got the high score on PAC-MAN.

Lol, that descriion is perfect. After starting to use again now, why i love it is exactly because of the speedball type opiate euphoria combined with stimulation and motivation. Its the perfect combo for a normal day and getting things done, and when it wears off you can sleep easily, it just might feel like you might not want to, when its wearing off thats when the sedation hits hard for me always. Sleep can be a bit weird because you get these crazy detailed closed eye visuals of things, almost as real as dream level visuals that can be a bit disturbing when trying to sleep but you pass out fine.

I have had to change my dose times though as when ive used it ive stayed up the whole night and gotten so much work done, its amazing, now just take it earlier like 3p and sip the 1l tea until about 9pm.

You wont get opiate level experiences though. Ive tried all the best extracts and they gave experiences close to what H did for me, close enough to impress me but still no nod, but at the terrible cost of heavy long term tolerance.

But if you want a mild functional and euphoric speedball effect then kratom is ideal. Even beats amps for me for getting things done.

blight12 said:

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Sadly, I almost agree...

I still like my Adderall better - mainly because it's therapeutic index (for my symptoms anyways) fits a lot better. However, I've noticed lately that Adderall... kinda makes me feel like I've just smoked some weed. It's really odd. I get that vibrating headspace feeling, puffy eyes, tired, unfocused and it actually feels a little unmotivating. If I combine it with DXM (I usually take 20 milligrams of DXM a day to help with tolerance build up) it literally drops my focus from 5% to 0%. It greatly enhances the stimulation - but only the negative effects of stimulation (bruxism, repetitive movements, anxiety, headache, bowl issues, etc)

However, I took some Sudafed (for nasal decongestion, not trying to get high) and alternatively it gave me more focus than Adderall has been lately, but not quiet as much motivation. It makes me think that Norepinephrine is more of a mediator for attention and Dopamine is more of a mediator for focus. You can't complete a task without either though (Singular noradrenergic agonism = anxiety, heart palpitations, etc. Singular dopamine agonism = compulsions, dissociation, sedation and even psychosis) the combination of the two is what elicits a positive action. (With norepinephrine mediating your attention towards what HAS (instead of executing compulsive behaviors) to be done, and Dopamine actually giving you the motivation to get up and go do it)

Every time I've tried Kratom, various strains at that, I've been disappointed. The only interesting psychoactive effect I got was a comfortable stimulation from the adrenergic properties in the alkaloids. Reminiscent of caffeine, a smooth ephedrine, or ~5mg d-amp.

Even ordered it from a reliable US vendor, but I think my heroin habit (IV 1-2g's daily) was far too heavy for me to even be able to tell if I liked Kratom.

Back in the day, my buddy boiled some UEI Kratom in grapefruit juice. It felt like a stimulating yet cozy low-dose oxycodone/buprenorphine (NOT the potency of bupe, obviously)