[Bad Trip Subthread] How to handle or prevent a bad trip

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- What do you consider to be / what is a bad trip?

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[original post:]

I wrote that in reply to Shags post...Bad Trips. But I think this might be a good and helpful Topic for some. I personally havent been into trips for 5 yrs, but used to as heavy into trips as it gets. Multiple doses, as many times per week as possible.
So here it goes...
In my opinion a bad trip isnt what is generally called a Horror-Trip, which in most cases involves stuff like zombies, rats and other weird stuff.
A bad Trip is much worse than that because with freaky visuals u can deal (most of the time)
Examples of issues relating to bad Trips...
...Total paranoia, thinking and believing people are loughing about you, or discussing just how much of loser you are, and how majorly wasted u look.
...A million thoughts running through your mind every minute and most of them bad. You just start losing yourself in a world of severe paranoia, and negativity
...Sensual Overload...loud music, and lightshows, turn from awesome to annoying. Not only annoying, but eating you up. You start, becoming extremly nervous and really cant do anything about it. Its just all to much. This generally leads to increases the effects of paranoia.
Those are some of the bad effects that Acid can give ya, and speaking out of expirience u need nerves of steel to get past them. Keep in mind that they quite often all come at once and there isnt much you can do about it.
If you ever get in such a situation (in my opinion) get one person to be with you so you have her total attention. No more, no less. Have a save place to go to, with just a little bit of music and light, so your senses can relax, but you dont feel alone.
Some people say t is relaxing to have something sweet in your mouth.
The most important thing is having some sleeping pills close. Take some and they should calm you at least, or better yet send you to lala-land. Dont tkae to much though in a rush of confusion and fear. U can get them at your doctors. Just tell them some story, how you went opverseas for few months and now are really jetlegged and need to sleep but cant.
Hope that helps....
Ps: If u take Acid on a regular basis, this will happen to you sooner or later.
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Fuck, those last two hours on dope, where the best 5 hours of my life...

No real tips to offer, but BUMP, because this is a good thread and stuff.
-Astian

My tripping paranoia is most often metaphysical in nature.
Things like:
Time is ending.
Time is looping.
The universe is ending.
I am ending.
Nothing exists because nothing may be definined without being related to something else.
Ebola
np: Front Line Assembly

I'm with ebola on that one.
Once I got fixated on the idea that all I was was a tube that stuff went through (you know, in the mouth, etc.), and that nothing I could ever do would change that. The ways of the acid are strange and powerful. But hey, great post, I agree 100%.
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"I shall be a sinful man to the end, and think upon my deathbed of all the nights I wasted in my youth."
--W. B. Yeats

What about attention distraction.
How about, instead of relying on someone ELSE to get you out of a psycadellic-rut, you go on a voyage to find that internal strength needed to get YOURSELF out of a rut.
Attention distraction is a temporary fix. So is sleeping pills. I guess if you're just doing psycadellics for fun and not trying to improve yourself or get anything out of them then those are fine options.
If you're in it for self-improvment and internal re-programming, then you need to find solutions that go beyond the temporary fixes. There are many temporary fixes, mind you.
Long term fixes are finding internal strength. Internal motivation. Internal desires and wants. Remembering your moral structure. Remembering your spiritual beliefs.
Have you ever thought about praying while under the influence of high doses of LSD. You might be suprised by what you find out. Then again, a prayer without faith won't do you any good, sober or tripping.
Don't fall prey to the "pscadellic as a video game substitute" point of view. The people who tell you that psycadellics are all just fun and games, and the fun ends when you have a terrible trip, then you never do them again.... those are the same people who never truely allow themselves to benefit from these experiences. If all you walk away with is a bunch of nights you had to knock yourself out, or sedate yourself with pills... then you lose.
The psycadellic can be viewed as a game, but you MUST realize that it is fucking with the HARDWIRING of your MIND and SPIRIT.
What do you want to get out of it? Then search for that. All the answers are out there already. You just need to expend the effort to find them. THEY ARE THERE.
Pyro

Disagree with Pyro,
1. I wouldnt wanna be praying, cause of the potential of imense guilt trips.
2. internal strength. Internal motivation. Internal desires and wants? Well mate, most bad trips I was on there was no such thing as internal. I cant even concentrate on one thought for more than one second. Maybe on the first few, semi heavy trips, fair enough.
But once a really bad trip hits ya, I would never advise anyone, to rely on anything inner.
Dont misunderstand me, I do agree, that in order to learn from the expirience u should put the boundries, but have the safty of sleeping pills and helpers close. Sometime it'll just get way to much for the best of us.
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Fuck, those last two hours on dope, where the best 5 hours of my life...

Praying? No I wouldn't want to find myself praying on a bad trip... or any trip.
But I would say that while a bad trip may seem like a horrific mind altering adventure which persuades you into thinking all these horrible things a mile-a-minuet, it happens for a reason.
Psychedelics bring out emotions of mind, body, spirit, joy, and fear. Fear will come out peaking into a horrible climax inside your trip for a reason. Then its time to look for that reason...

i'veonly had one bad trip, and it was on seven or eight grams of very powerful shrooms. all was good until I couldnt distinguish wheather my eyes were opened or closed. meaning my closed eye visuals became open eye visuals. i got up and tried to walk out of the room and i passed out. which is what really scared me because ive never heard of anybody passing out from shrooms or acid. so then i thought i was dying, and believed i had found the meaning of life so that living wasnt neccesary any more. Well i was lucky enough to have my sober girlfriend with me who sat with me for two hours and tried to talk me out of my funk. I found that the best thing for me was her telling me good things about my life and just keeping my mind off the terrible thoughts.
I tripped again about a week later, and it just wasnt the same my thoughts were still all fucked up and it was hard to enjoy it.
oh yeah, has anybody else heard of people passing out from large doses of shrooms/acid

never,
pretty strange.....wonder if it was body that shut down or your mind....sort of protection.
interesting.....
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Fuck, those last two hours on dope, where the best 5 hours of my life...

Right before i passed out, i felt like i had to get away somehow, i figured if i could leave the room then it would change, i think my mind thought the same thing but had no where to go so it just shut down.
hopefully nothing to harmful though

jtrip,
i recently had a very similar bad trip. ate 6 grams of what i thought ( no lecture please i already know i fucked up) were bad mushrooms and ending up having a horrendus trip. for several hours wanted to die, could not determine simple concepts such as time. my main question was what was you trip after that did the paronia set right back in or where you able to handle it. i was thinking about eating 2 grams with a trip setter and wouls welcome any advice.

oh and by the way i have heard of people passing out from shrooms.. kinda of a sensory overload and you body kicks in to protect you.

Ive only ever had one bad trip and its a long story so I wont go into it here(maybe Ill put in a trip report of it one day)
but basically I forgot who I was and ended up in hospital after putting my arm through a window (waking up strapped to a hospital bed and covered in blood is NOT a good experience) and assaulting eight people,suffice to say not one of my happiest memories-scary shit
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"und keine eire"

http://www.erowid.org/psychoactives/faqs/psychedelic_crisis_faq.shtml
This is a really good page... here are a few good points from the page.
Quick List
Try to get a sense of 'how far out' they are. Do they think they are in the same place you think you are? Do they know what time of day it is, what their name is? Do they know they ingested a psychoactive?
Reassure them in a calm, matter-of-fact tone that you are with them and watching out for them.
Remind them that this is a substance-induced state of mind, which will end.
Remind them to breathe and relax.
Let them know that spiritual crises are normal.
Be as calm as possible while talking to them, and use a normal tone of voice even if you are feeling anxious yourself.
If possible, bring them some water or a piece of bread. Ask them if they would like a sip or a bite.
*Sit and talk. Pass the time with them.
*Look at beautiful things.
*Sing (anything, but especially children's songs such as Row, Row, Row Your Boat).
*Pet or play with an animal.
*Go for a walk.
*Recall good memories (beach, children, etc.).
*Dance.
*Hold hands.
Pitfalls to Avoid
Don't try too hard to 'get them to come down'. This often makes things worse.
Don't confuse them by repeatedly asking them questions they can't answer.
Don't make them feel even more isolated by acting worried and nervous around them.
Probably avoid any complex physical activities, like trying to zipper a jacket or fixing the stereo or lighting the pilot light on the stove.
Respect their needs and boundaries.
Don't touch them if they don't want to be touched.
Give them space if they seem to want it.
What To Do
If someone seems to be having a hard time, gently ask them if they would like someone to sit with them. If it seems disturbing to them to have someone sitting with them, have someone nearby keep an eye on them unobtrusively.
Relate to them in the space they are in. Oftentimes, the thing which isolates people and creates a sense of paranoia or loss is that they are *so far out* of normal awareness that people are trying hard to ground them. Start off instead by trying to just be there for them. Try to see the world through their eyes.
What different ways can you change setting (noise level, temperature, outside vs. inside, etc.)? A party/rave/concert setting can aggravate a person's state of mind. Consider finding the quietest place if it seems like it will help (taking cues from the experiencer), and ask people to not crowd around. Reassure them the situation is under control, noting those who offer help in case help is needed later.
How can you minimize risk of emotional or physical harm? Remember your concern for how the person is feeling, not concern for the situation (as in "oh my gawd, we've got to do something.")
Paranoia: If the person doesn't want anyone near them, hang back, turn so you aren't staring at them, but keep an eye on them as discretely as possible. Think about what it would feel like to be in a paranoid state, having some stranger (whether you are or not) follow you around and watch you.
What objects/activities/distractions might help the person get through a difficult space (toys, animals, music, etc.)?
No Pressure: Just be with them. Unless there is risk of bodily injury, just make it clear you are there for them if they need anything.
Touch. Touch can be very powerful, but it can also be quite violating. In general, don't touch them unless they say its OK or they touch you first. If it seems like they might need a hug, ask them. If they are beyond verbal communication, try to be very sensitive to any negative reaction to touch. Try to avoid getting pulled into any sexual contact. Often, holding hands is a very effective and non-threatening way to let someone know you are there if they need you.
Intensity can come in cycles or waves. It also can work as a system -- a movement through transpersonal spaces which can have a beginning, a middle, and an end. Don't try to push too hard to move it.
Not Forever: If they are connected enough to worry about their sanity, assure them that the state is due to a psychoactive and they will return to their 'home' state of mind in time.
Normal Drug-Induced: Tell them they are experiencing the acute effects of a psychoactive (if you know what, tell them) and tell them that it is normal (although uncommon) to go through spiritual crises and they (like thousands before them) will be fine if they relax and let the substance run its course.
Breathing: breathe with them. If they are connected enough to be present for assistance, get them to join you in deep, long, full breaths. If they're amenable to it, or really far out and freaking, putting a hand on their belly and saying, "breath from down here", "just keep breathing, you 'got it", can help.
Relaxing: It can be very very hard to relax in the middle of dying or being pulled apart by demons, but tell them that you are there to make sure nothing happens to their physical body. One of the most important things during really difficult internal processes is to learn to be OK with them happening, to 'relax' one's attempt to stop the experience and just let it happen.
Getting Meditative: Gently suggesting they try to close their eyes and focus inward can sometimes change the course of their experience.
****Barefeet on the ground: One of the most centering and grounding thing to do is to take off shoes and socks and get your feet directly on the hard ground. Be careful of doing this in toe-dangerous surroundings.
(this works for me- Daz)
Eye contact: If the person is not acting paranoid and fearful of you, make sure to include a lot of eye contact.
Everything is Fine with Me: Make it clear that the whole world may be falling apart for them, but everything is OK with you.
Healthy process: Crises are a normal part of the human psychological process and one way to engage them is as a process of healing, not a 'problem' to be fixed. See Grof, Bill Richards, et al.
It can be very very difficult to talk, relate, or even really be fully aware of other people's presence at the peak of intense experiences. If you're sitting with a person who is in this state, listen to what they say and (if it seems appropriate and useful) you can prompt them with very simple questions about their experience...
"What color is it?" -- "Are you sad?" -- "How old are you?"
It seems likely that the answers you will receive will be metaphoric and not concrete. "All the colors" - "I'm as old as the river". Don't expect to carry on a normal conversation.
The most comforting thing some people have reported helped them during acute experiences is a blanket wrapped around them. We cannot recommend enough having a thick, weighty blanket for emergencies.

I've tripped many,many times and have had a pretty good share of bad trips. What works for me is to first realize that the whole "trip" is in my mind and therefore under my control. Now, what most people do is try to identify every aspect of the bad trip and try to fight it. Won't work. If I feel extreme anxiety, I'll just drop whatever it is that I'm doing and try to find a more secluded spot. From there, I sit down. Take a deep breath, and remember the best trip advice I've ever heard a la "Peter Pan": Happy thoughts make you fly. So I think happy thoughts. Easier said than done, but I've had practice so it works. Basically the idea is to change the direction of the trip without directly fighting it. Don't just curl up in a ball and think about how bad the trip is and repeat the words "go away go away go away" over and over again, it will just make the trip worse.
Then again, if you truly want to LEARN something from your journey...stick it out. I learn the most about myself from bad trips.

I had serious issues my first(and only for now) trip.
I dropped my tabs which were different to what everyone else was doing and they came up in about 30 mins. about 2 and a half hours later i (stupidly) dropped some more trips. Came up was quite overwhealming but nice. Intense body rushes, coulours changing constantly and music "bending".
All of a sudden i was in a state where i didn't know what was going on. I felt like i was losing my brain piece by piece.
I saw millions of different possiblitlies rushing through my head. I wasnt *there* for a lot of the time but i remember bits. I shouted a lot for some reason, couldn't work out what was going on and quite a few hours later started coming closer to reality.
I cannot explain what happened, but lots of my mates think i shouldntt do cid again. I was enjoying it at the beginning. hmm
anyways dunno why i wrote this sorry
sam
[This message has been edited by dakky (edited 02 December 2001).]

oscar,
not sure if i get your question, but if your talking about the next time i tripped, the paranoia didn't set in, it was just that my mind was almost rejecting the trip. i would suggest if your gonna do it again that you try to stay active and talking to people so your mind doesnt start to wonder back to the trip that you had before. i'm sure ill do it again, and i'll probably have to work on keeping my mind away from the bad thoughts. i think passing out from the shrooms really shook me up in the head. good luck

i'll have to agree with wakkawakka on the "change the course of the trip aspect"
I've tripped probably 60-70 times, and during those times come across some difficult situations. I've never had a bad trip but have come close a couple of times. This is what I found helped me.
Usually, if i notice negative thoughts beginning to develop. I try to instantly tell myself that it is just the drug. I remind my self what drug it was I took and the effects will in fact pass.
If this doesn't help I will go to a different room or change my surroundings. I think most people have a problem with identifying a bad trip right away or let themselves get caught up in analyzing the bad trip they think they are going into.
As for difficult situations, try to avoid them. if one arises, again change your surroundings and mind pattern. don't fight the trip instead just flow with it. fighting it will only make it worse.
jrip,
i very recently had a friend that told me he passed out on shrooms after drinking 2+ cups of tea. him and 1 other person mixed approximately 8 caps of very strong shrooms. i beleive that once you throw a large amount of psilocybin at your body, it simply cannot process it all and just shuts down. i can see how it could become scary though. I also beleive the dosage of shrooms and all physcedelics in general play significant outcome of your trip. but there are also many other factors that come into play when determining how the trip will be.
i also have a question about shrooms for someone. every time i have tripped on them was in a social surroundings with some other trippers. i find these to be very enjoying. recently i have read some docs on erowird and am wondering if there is a more deeper/shamanic/spiritual side to shrooms. My wife and I (we are both very comfortable with tripping and watch dosages very carefully) are interested in having such a deep trip to explore ourselves and our lives. can anyone offer their only personal experiences of such a trip or advice? i would very much like to hear as much as possible about this kind of trip. even if someone can point me in the direction of some docs on this topic?
[ 24 February 2002: Message edited by: dkode ]
[ 24 February 2002: Message edited by: dkode ]

a bad trip...hmmmm
on alot of acid...think fear and loathing, the scene in the bar where everyone turns into dinosaurs...
Basically your a raving, incoherent son of a bitch with some sort of crazy loop going on in your brain because of something (maybe just in your head) that has exploded to the point where your just...........GONE! bad trips arent fun, its the side of acid/psychedelics we generally try to steer clear of. You CAN be pulled out, but your going to have to explain what got you there...usually just distracting someone doesn't do much to help it...You have to explain the entire situation, of what happened leading to the insanity, so someone can put it into perspective, and this has to be someone you admire/respect, because any old fool you probably wouldn't even give a second thought in your tripped out acid dimensia

has anyone seen/heard Woodstock? I've always had the impression that when he got up on stage talking about "stay way from the bad brown acid" that the acid would produce bad trips.
Does certain acid tend to give people bad trips, or is it one's own mental state?