Y does the psychedlic experience exist? is there an evolutionary basis? implications?

[white55]

Wow ok.. well maybe 'recipe' was misleading: some psychedelic effects seem truly like a basic part of the package but other effects are more rare like for me synaesthesia is one holy grail. Just like Shulgin describes ++++ experiences: tragicly it doesn't seem possible to reliably produce such exotic effects. I'd say things like entities or eyes are more of a tendency of tryptamines by a long shot if I compare all trypt and phen trips, but yeah you never really know what you're gonna get, as much as I hate to quote Forest Gump.

Trypts are much better at creating alien worlds for me, even DiPT while it did not entertain me really with auditory effects nor visual, made me feel like I was sensing this thin veil separating this dimension from one filled with strange entities. Phens for me take more of a photoshop approach but their richness lies more in empathogenic and entactogenic effects for me. Mesc and 2C-Ts can be somehow visionary but this still feels super personal instead of aliens, mysterious teachings, amazon canoo rides with a Crazy Frog type character. Otherworldly vs ultrawordly somehow, although the psychedelia can make distinctions unclear.
Sure if you eat enough 2C-T-7 and go delirious that is not so in touch with yourself anymore but I don't think that counts.



Hell yes, thirded. It should be a beautiful day tomorrow here, my house has never been neater and cleaner, I think ETH-LAD is a go.

I guess it's all quite subjective and based on how your brain is wired and what you're expecting from the experience I guess. For me the top is definitely ald-52 + eth-lad + 3-meo-pce + o-pce. The ald-52 can be substituted with lsd or 1p-lsd if necessary and the 3-meo-pce with 3-meo-pcp (and probably 3-ho-pce), but the eth-lad and o-pce are more or less irreplaceable. I could see some other hole friendly ach replacing o-pce (though I don't really like dck and the rest exist only on paper for now (o-pcpr, o-pcpy, o-pcp, ...)) but I can't think there is anything to replace eth-lad (well ok 1p-eth-lad, 1a-eth-lad and other even more fantasy land lysergamides) so I really hope some other lab picks it up. I know it's a hard one to make and less popular than it should be (don't get why.... people are all over 1p-lsd which is great and all but eth-lad is unique) but come on, charge more for it if you have to, as long as it's not outrageous I'm fine with that.

 

[Solipsis]

Not very interested in the old materialism vs espiritualism discussion right now to be honest. It is just kind of a waste of time as everybody always goes on thinking exactly the same than before the discussion. Anyway I feel quite neutral in the discussion and other people is welcome to think otherwise.
Just to point out that never said words like coincidence. And that my whole point is that we don't know. None of us. Scientists neither. To believe you know doesn't mean you do.

IMHO There is not such thing as drug-free conciousness. Our mental estates are govern by drugs all the time (or the other way around). To be baseline is a concept that is useful but not really anything that we can quantify as our conciousness is all the time moving and differs probably from one person to the next and is affected even by environment or beliefs.

Once a psychiatrist told the Dalai Lama that people was depressed because of serotonin depletion. The Dalai Lama laught and said "It is the other way around, their brains don't produce enough serotonin because they are depressed."

Not trying to ridiculise your opinions as they are as valid as mine. Let's not keep the discussion going in cercles. A word is enough to the wise. To play the I am right game makes us look more arrogant than clever...And I plead guilty!

Seems like a misunderstanding: I would interpret the serotonin depletion to be a correlate of depression - the whole causality seems like a confusion to begin with. On the other hand: it can work in both directions: if you fuck up your serotonin system you can get depressed but if you can find ways to non-pharmaceutically treat your depression you should see the swing in serotonin levels.

There may be grounds to what the psychiatrist was claiming that there are such factors involving serotonin imbalance (genetically for example) as actual cause of clinical depression that has no real other 'reason'. The huge challenge is always to see the difference between clinical depression and sadness - as to whether it is a healthy and natural response to feel sad when fucked up things happen [those reasons ^], or whether you feel sad for no reason.
For one of those cases, the psychiatrist would have more of a point, for the other case the Dalai Lama. (who I really hope for him can find a successor - that stuffs fucked up yo)

 

[The Hypnotist]

Ya I agree with all what you say. Just put it there for humorous reasons and trying to mess up the subject a bit more if possible. As you said about the existence of the universe...just because I can, with no deep meaning.

And I didn't know about the successor stuff, just looked it up. It is quite a soap opera. It sounds like a complete joke...that it has to be for his native town...that it should be a female...that it has to be very, very attractive...that he wants to be the last one because it is better to finish with a popular one...
I think he is just taking the piss, quite hilarious if you ask me, always liked the guy.

 

[Solipsis]

Yeah you should watch the interview with John Oliver.. anyway, how derailed is this thread?

Is there a bearing here?