Would you expatriate from the United States for political reasons? (2016 Election)

[socko]

(Moderator note: Title changed, as political discussion and debate as such belongs in CE&P., however, discussion of expatriating and expatriate living belongs here. What does not belong here in SO is bashing particular candidates or their agendas. From any number of political perspectives one might consider leaving the country at this point, or for reasons having to do with social and economic changes in general. Any questions please let me know, or if the consensus is this is better served in CE&P, we'll move it --SKL)

You'd get off a sinking ship if you could, right? And you'd look for dry land. There is no shame in it. Throughout history, masses of people have fled when things got bad or threatened to. European Jews, Syrians, Somalis, Egyptian Christians,Tamil, Hmong, etc are just a few examples. Now, there are rumors about a Canadian island that is welcoming American refugees if Trump wins.

At this point, Trump is likely to get the GOP nomination and Mrs. Clinton, the Democratic. None of the other candidates have much of a chance at this point. If you think Congress will do damage control once the next president takes power, look at their (congress) activity over the last 6 or so years

So, who will flee America if Trump is elected president? I see blogs and articles where the writer threatens to leave if Trump wins. Hollywood entertainers have made the same threat. Many say the same thing if Mrs. Clinton wins. She is a vile personality in her own way. I read the writing on the wall a few years ago and left. So, who's leaving?

 

[axl blaze]

no, I don't care that much about politics. I'd probably be happier that a Republican is in, because I wouldn't be taxed as much (I get killed in taxes... )

 

[nuttynutskin]

No, and I think most people threatening to probably wouldn't either. It's easy to say but most people have a lot to take into consideration before fleeing the country. If you're going to just do it, don't make a big deal out of it.

 

[JessFR]

Empty threats, people said the same thing about bush. Personally I'm not convinced trump will be much worse than various previous presidents. I think his rhetoric is all bs to get elected, and once in office it wont happen. I sure hope so anyway.

Besides, you can't just leave, you need to have a residency in another country. That's what I find really sad about people saying they'll just leave America, they sound like they think that the rest of the world is just waiting for an American to want to join them. Which is exactly the kind of American centric ignorance the rest of the world makes fun of us for.

 

[sigmond]

I'd expatriate right now if I had the money. Feel free to mail order husband me socko- Since I am not gay we might have to pull off some Chuck and Larry antics, oh well, worth the trouble imo....mull it over

 

[socko]

It can be done. A lot of African Americans came over here in the 1920s in search of greener pastures. They liked it enough that they stayed.

There is a large number of expats here today for various reasons.You have to really want to do it or it will seem to be too much trouble. it takes preparation (6 months maybe) and mon3y or sponsorship from an overseas employer.

I pay less in taxes percentage wise here than i ever did in the usa. And the social programs are better here.

Maybe Trump is all talk, but he says things a lot of people feel. He appeals to ones sense of dissatisfaction with the way things have become.

Here is the story about the Canadian Island offering refuge to Americans should Trump get elected. Not sure how to format it in quites tags since im using a mobile. This is a clip from Huffington post:

Canada's Cape Breton Will Welcome American Refugees Fleeing President Trump
"Where women can get abortions, Muslim people can roam freely and the only 'walls' are holding up the roofs of our extremely affordable houses."
Feb 18, 2016
Ed Mazza Overnight Editor, The Huffington Post

Each election cycle, there's a threat many people make but few keep: "If so-and-so wins, I'm moving to Canada!"

Now, one kind-hearted Canadian wants to help Americans keep that promise should Donald Trump win the presidency.

Rob Calabrese, a radio host in Cape Breton, Nova Scotia, has set up a website called "Cape Breton If Donald Trump Wins" that pitches the island as a new home for anyone seeking refuge.

 

[herbavore]

I am lobbying to leave--so far my husband is not on board. He feels that we have an obligation to stay and try to be a voice for our ideals, that leaving would be selfish. I agree; it's just that I am willing to be selfish in this case.

 

[spacejunk]

^ we'd always welcome you on the other side of the pond, herby

 

[szuko000]

I keep saying someday I will, so far I have been a man of my word in life in a lot of things people said wouldnt happen. But I never say a specific time usually just "I may be Canadian by then though (live in NE US, closest boarder jump so thats what I say) once I finish my degree(s) who really knows"

But then again if I do that I cant battle in the streets over food and water resources after our economy crashes or try to fight off the Chinese after some economic shift causes them to attempt to recall the debt... both of which may prove to be fun scenarios to be in. I can only put myself down as a maybe as I try not to deal in absolutes when I have no idea

 

[SKL]

These threats get thrown around almost every election cycle, starting particularly in earnest with George W Bush but even beforehand. By this point, it's clichéd. by this point. Both likely alternatives are terrible and the less likely alternatives are only slightly less terrible, if even that. Myself. I am a informed and deliberate non-voter (of the school of thought that "it only encourages them") and tremendously cynical about electoral politics (of the school of thought that there is "not a dime's worth of difference"), and hardly see Trump as more evil than most of the realistic alternatives, even though it seems still ridiculous to think of Trump as realistic ... now more and more naysayers are being corrected, though, as Trump sees success in the primaries, endorsement by Christie (another pompous blowhard of only slightly more serious political fibre than Trump), etc. Who knows? I worry more about the general direction our country is going in demographically, politically, economically, and socially. But yes, people will talk about this stuff, but I'm not sure how seriously it ought to be taken in general ...

I am also not sure this is SO material. We've had threads here before about expatriating and overseas living here before so I'll keep it here if that's what's being discussed; otherwise I'll ship it to CE&P if the discussion turns overtly political. This means this is not going to be a thread about Trump, Clinton, or any other candidate and their failings or how they will ruin us as a country, but rather generally about the possibility of relocating/expatriating because of political, social, economic, etc. changes that we see on the near horizon possibly relating to the election, or maybe because of more general trends.

As for expatriating, do I think that America is headed possibly irretrievably to a bad place, if certain trends do not change? Certainly, but I think so for much of the world and the Western world in particular, for reasons that again would do better in a CE&P thread. Practically speaking, though, even though as a young single man with minimal criminal history and few financial or social embitterments and a universally marketable education/skills/licensure I am perhaps the sort of person who would find relocating easy, nonetheless I feel no real impetus to: I feel that my standard of living is not going to improve, I fear for my (as yet hypothetical) children's even more, but am not sure that a relocation would solve much of anything, or even if, carefully considered, it would, I fear that I'm more liable to taking the path of least resistance.

 

[socko]

Yes, a lot of people say it. My message is that it is possible to follow through. In fact, i encourage it. You can leave and be prosperous overseas. If you hate what America is becoming,it might be wise to get the h*ll out. Remember, roughly half the country is going to vote for the candidate who disgusts you the most. Can you happily live among such people? Some foreign countries are welcoming. The only disloyalty involved is that of the candidates and their betrayal of founding principles.

 

[nuttynutskin]

Not everyone can just quit their job and is going to leave their family behind. And while people should do what they want I think the whole thing has become a bit silly. Maybe I'm just jaded from living with a family member that has been bringing up the idea of moving to Canada for the better part of a decade whenever something doesn't go how they want in the realm of politics, but I don't personally think that leaving the country is necessarily the answer, or as SKL said going to solve anything.

 

[quiet roar]

Apart from the comedic value, how much will things really change if Trump wins? And how different would it be moving to another country? Here in Australia, we had Abbott as PM so about half of our adult population voted for him. Is that really so different to voting for Trump?

I keep saying that I am going to opt out and move to the country where I can ignore most of what is going on. Mrs roar will take some more convincing but I have about 4 years until our youngest finishes high school so I have some time to convince her.

 

[malakaix]

Unless you owe a substantial amount in debt.

A new law passed by US Congress and signed by President Obama this month allows the IRS to strip anyone who owes the US government as least $50,000 in unpaid taxes of an American passport. - https://www.rt.com/usa/326816-passport-revoke-irs-taxes/ | http://www.foxbusiness.com/politics/2016/01/05/irs-gets-new-powers-to-revoke-passports.html

I don't know for certain, but this might be in response to students fleeing to Europe to avoid their student loan debts. - http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/us-graduat...oans-flee-europe-dodge-debt-find-jobs-1538498

 

[socko]

One of those articles said around 7 million Americans live abroad. That's a lot. The current election is like asking a convicted prisoner how he wants to be executed. The choices are firing squad (nuclear war ) or having your skin peeled off while kept alive as long as possible .

Unless you owe a substantial amount in debt.

A new law passed by US Congress and signed by President Obama this month allows the IRS to strip anyone who owes the US government as least $50,000 in unpaid taxes of an American passport. - https://www.rt.com/usa/326816-passpo...oke-irs-taxes/ | http://www.foxbusiness.com/politics/...passports.html

I don't know for certain, but this might be in response to students fleeing to Europe to avoid their student loan debts. - http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/us-graduate...d-jobs-1538498

Now the US government effectively holding all Americans prisoner who have this kind of debt. This is one more thing to hate about America. This is under Obama who is relatively moderate. Now imagine what will happen under a pathologically ambitious and poorly informed president with extremist political goals. We are seeing the aftermath of someone whose MO is that she would "rather get caught trying than never try at all" in Libya and Syria. That was all her. Worse, she is not capable of learning from other people's mistakes.

This is the impulsive and poorly thought out political philosophy used by Bush/Cheney when they invaded Iraq. In Bush's defense, American hadn't just gotten out of a failed nation building operation a few years earlier.

 

[manboychef]

I have been seriously considering moving to canada. Right now I am experience the existential turmoil that is dealing with wage slavery. The social net sucks here.

 

[nuttynutskin]

I don't understand why some people have such a romanticized view of Canada. I've talked to someone that lived there and the price of living is high, they were surrounded by a lot of seediness and crime at least where they happened to live, and it can take like 1/2 a year to get to see a doctor. In a lot of respects I don't see how it's better than anywhere else. The only people who seem to think it's any different are the people that don't actually live there.

 

[Pharcyde]

No America is my home and it has it all. People die trying to get here. We're free and live in a great place so as long as were not getting thrown into work camps or shit like that why move because of political reasons?

 

[Droppersneck]

You know Ive often said if I were a extremely wealthy person I would start a fund to help the people that wanted to leave on their way. There are enough people wanting in that we should help those that want to leave. I mean they get eight years of their side holding the reigns time to let the pendulum swing as it always does. Trump is not racist, sexist, bigoted, etc he simply does not speak the sensitive language of the politicians we have come to know and despise. I think cutting to brass tacks is something that is welcome hence his large following.

 

[Bardeaux]

I'd leave for non-political reasons. I've been romanticizing the idea of expatriating myself from the country for many years now, under neo-conservative governments, under moderate liberal governments, it's not the politics that drive my will to venture out and find a new home. They certainly add fuel to the fire when someone like Donald Trump is a prospective president of the country, but I'd still want to leave if Sanders were elected.

I'm simply dissatisfied with our culture here in the US, the social environment, our material interests, fundamental individualism and greed. Having lived elsewhere in the world as an adult for many months, this has only confirmed my desire to find a more suitable environment. I realize there will be many of the same problems in any other country I choose that exist in the United States, but the volume would be turned down on these issues.

The US is filled to the brim with natural beauty and wonderful people, it's just not the place for me.