Wim Hoff the iceman Holotropic breathing method for natural dmt release

[Jabberwocky]

Does the breathwork cause any anxiety? I associate parathesia with anxiety but my curiousity is piqued...

Most people don't experience anxiety in so much as a desire to stop when the parathesia starts. The sensation isn't unpleasant, just a bit strange. That's why despite being so simple to perform, a good facilitator is recommended for these types of breathing modalities, to keep one going, bring awareness to form, and to help pace the breathing. One of the most effective treatments for recurring panic attacks involves practicing this type of breath work (to prevent their reoccurrence, not to treat an active panic attack). It can cure the reoccurrence of panic attacks after a while and certainly lessen their severity.

 

[swilow]

Okay, I think I will try. Can you be bothered summarising briefly the technique?

 

[Jabberwocky]

Let this attractive female explain the Wim Hof method to you:



3 rounds are recommended as a minimum. Sit up or lay down (I like to lay down). A lot of people say to do 5 total and/or add push-ups or abdominal crunches to the routine (while holding breath). That's optional. Starting with 3 rounds is fine. If you want to use a timer, set it to 2-3 minutes for the breathing part. Then set a stopwatch for the breath hold to time that. Note your ability to hold your breath will typically increase as the rounds progress. Don't do this in a tub or while driving a car.

 

[LSDheroinRecovery]

i believe his tech just releases adrenaline which is why there is an effect i doubt that it has anything to do with dmt

 

[Cotcha Yankinov]

I agree hypocapnia is definitely a factor regarding breath holding, but the story is likely more complicated. I found a study on this:
http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1113/expphysiol.2005.031625/full

To a first approximation your hypocapnia hypothesis is reasonable and supported by experiments. A more detailed analysis of the problem reveals that breath holding breakpoint is a more complex functions of partial pressure levels of arterial blood gases and other factors (as detailed in paper)

The paper goes through the experimental history of studying this problem.

I still think the reason why you are able to hold your breath for longer than normal (without respiratory drive) is hypocapnia. Hyperventilation eventually induces hypocapnia, hypocapnia reduces respiratory drive, so its a pretty reasonable conclusion in my eyes. There is simply less CO2 stimulating your drive to breathe. The paper seems to support that conclusion as well, as it notes several times the importance of CO2 mediated respiratory drive (see what is written below "the central respiratory rhythm and breath-holding" in your paper)

If you would like to think that the breathing method is doing something fundamentally more healthy and thus you have less need of oxygen I can understand why you would want to conclude that, but its very likely simply hypocapnia and the downstream effects on the CNS.

 

[Jabberwocky]

If you would like to think that the breathing method is doing something fundamentally more healthy and thus you have less need of oxygen I can understand why you would want to conclude that, but its very likely simply hypocapnia and the downstream effects on the CNS.

No, you are putting words in my mouth. To a first approximation it is hypocapnia, which is what I said in support of your point. If you really want to understand the mechanism behind breath hold, look at the evidence.

The most dramatic demonstration that breath-hold duration is not simply dependent on blood gas pressures comes from measuring the effect at breakpoint of breathing asphyxiating gas mixtures (i.e. mixtures whose inspiration lowers P_O2 formula and raises P_CO2 formula even further) on the ability to make successive breath-holds. This appears to be not widely known, yet was clearly described 51 years ago by Fowler (1954) and is alluded to much earlier (Hill & Flacke, 1908).

If there exists some threshold partial pressure(s) that invokes the involuntary termination of breath-holding, subjects should not be able to make a second breath-hold without first restoring blood gas pressures to normal. Fowler (1954), however, showed that at breakpoint (mean end-tidal P_CO2 formula 47 mmHg, n= 3 and mean oxygen saturation (S_O2 formula−3% of control values), allowing eight subjects eight breaths of an asphyxiating mixture (8% O2 and 7.5% CO2) enabled them immediately to perform another breath-hold for 20 s. At the breakpoint of the second breath-hold (mean P_CO2 formula 51 mmHg, n= 3 and mean S_O2 formula−10% of control values), another eight breaths of the asphyxiating gas enabled a further 20 s breath-hold (with gases at breakpoint being a mean P_CO2 formula of 52 mmHg, n= 3 and mean S_O2 formula of −12%). This was subsequently confirmed with 24 subjects (Flume et al. 1994).

Not only is the ability to undertake a second breath-hold essentially independent of blood gas levels, it is also independent of the volume or number of the intervening involuntary breath(s) (Godfrey & Campbell, 1969; Rigg et al. 1974; Flume et al. 1994, 1995). This ability also persists if performing an isovolume manoeuvre, or merely an inspiratory effort (−12 cmH2O pressure) against a closed airway (Rigg et al. 1974), and even after bilateral lung transplantation in nine subjects (Flume et al. 1996). The explanation for this ability may be that stopping the voluntary breath-hold confounds the involuntary breakpoint mechanism, so another breath-hold is always possible. Confounding might be achieved simply as a result of relaxing any tonic diaphragm activity (see section entitled Paralysis of the diaphragm).

 

[Cotcha Yankinov]

No, you are putting words in my mouth. To a first approximation it is hypocapnia, which is what I said in support of your point. If you really want to understand the mechanism behind breath hold, look at the evidence.

I understand that one can still make additional breath-holds after inhaling an asphyxiating air mixture containing some CO2, but that appears to have very little to do with the air inhaled (see bolded text) but rather possibly some relief of respiratory drive that occurs when breathing mechanics are activated.

Its still very likely that hypocapnia is primarily responsible for your ability to hold your breath for longer after the hyperventilation -- if you were doing this breathing technique with a very CO2-heavy mixture I don't believe you would be able to hold your breath afterwards like you typically can, even though you would still be activating and desensitizing your respiratory drive while breathing the CO2-heavy mixture.

"Not only is the ability to undertake a second breath-hold essentially independent of blood gas levels, it is also independent of the volume or number of the intervening involuntary breath(s) (Godfrey & Campbell, 1969; Rigg et al. 1974; Flume et al. 1994, 1995). This ability also persists if performing an isovolume manoeuvre, or merely an inspiratory effort (−12 cmH2O pressure) against a closed airway (Rigg et al. 1974)"

My entire point is to lay to rest any beliefs that the brain is "hyperoxygenated" during this technique and that this is the reason for the subjective effects and effects on respiratory drive afterwards. Beliefs that the brain is "hyperoxygenated", combined with some common knowledge floating around that hyperbaric chambers are used in some medical situations, could lead people to believe that their brain is getting lots of oxygen and that the technique is 100% healthy. I understand that there can be benefits. But its not like there are zero potential downsides.

 

[Jabberwocky]

Thanks. Yes, you have laid to rest any beliefs that the brain is "hyperoxygenated" during this technique. I appreciate the interaction definitely helped me to clear up some misunderstandings about hyperoxygenation I held that breath facilitators themselves are guilty of perpetuating.