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Wierd stuff when tripping

I've experienced this many times but only with animals, mostly cats.The first time I took 4-AcO-DMT my significant other's cat came in the room and went absolutely crazy. He would run to one corner of the room and look back at us meowing in an almost demonic tone while his back was twitching like crazy and then run to the opposite side of the room and repeat. My love was convinced that he some how got into my stash even though I had everything in the safe before he had entered the room. When I lived at home I sat in front of my sister's extremely hyper ferret's cage and meditated while on 5 hits and the thing sat on two legs and just stared into my eyes for at least 30 minutes.
 
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I'm still trying to figure out what they are, it seems to me like a number of discrete phenomena are being conflated.

All part of life's rich tapestry, my friend.
If you'd told me 20 years ago that I would experience something I could not easily explain - then later discover other people had experienced much the same thing (to the point that this thing had a term to describe it, coined in the 1960s) I'd have thought you crazy.
But...I've experienced "contact highs", then read about their supposed existence.
It's certainly fascinating to me - and though I have a great hunger for knowledge, I accept - and rather enjoy - coming across things I cannot rationally explain.
It may be a romantic notion, but it is not under everyday circumstances that a sceptical atheist such as myself has their understanding of the nature of consciousness and reality called into question.
I don't "believe" for the sake of some otherworldly new age tripper street cred; I simply realise that what I've witnessed is beyond my rational understanding. And I'm ok with that in a Socratic sense.
 
Maybe threads get derailed because you carry on insulting people who are on your ignore list?

"...I had enough trust in my judgement" is "different from 'had a delusion'".

I suggest leaning your head close to the point where you can read what you are typing. Pay attention to how people interpret what you are saying.
 
Read what you said. You did not say that you had had delusions and sorted them out, you said you had enough trust in your judgement to separate delusional mind states.

It was not clear from the context that you were talking about a time before now but after your delusions.

Did you really have delusions, or were they merely hallucinations without explanation? A delusion is something clearly wrong, that you believe, despite having been given a reasonable explanation. Are you sure they were delusions?
 
I do not think this sort of thing (or anything) is "beyond science", I just think we haven't yet figured out how to understand it with science. "Magic" is just what we haven't come to understand yet. Pop back even 50 years and cell phones, the Internet, and other technologies of today that we understand and accept would have seemed otherworldly, and most likely if you told someone about them they'd think you were crazy (especially if you go back even further, 100, 150 years).

Yip, exactly.

There are so many misconceptions about science and what it means. Really it's just the validation of the known. The unknown is so ridiculously vast, especially if we're talking about a single specie's efforts to validate it, or even a single individuals knowledge or interpretation of that.

And one thing that definitely fits into the category of thus far invalidated is that of psychedelics. Due to cultural and political constraints, all we really have is anecdotal evidence; and that, by all accounts, hints at something pretty fucking weird.

More on the unknown by Jung:
http://carljungdepthpsychology.blogspot.co.uk/2011/10/magician-carl-jung-red-book-pages-312.html
 
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I've experienced this many times but only with animals, mostly cats.The first time I took 4-AcO-DMT my significant other's cat came in the room and went absolutely crazy. He would run to one corner of the room and look back at us meowing in an almost demonic tone while his back was twitching like crazy and then run to the opposite side of the room and repeat. My love was convinced that he some how got into my stash even though I had everything in the safe before he had entered the room. When I lived at home I sat in front of my sister's extremely hyper ferret's cage and meditated while on 5 hits and the thing sat on two legs and just stared into my eyes for at least 30 minutes.

Same thing happened te me and my cat, I was convinced he'd gotten into my stash, I was freaked out, but every time I'd go away, I'd give it a minute and peek around the corner and he'd be acting completely normally. It's a little easier to traditionally rationalize a cat for me though because they pick up on your vibes so strongly, I think it's likely he was just freaked out by my energy. Still, what he was doing was yowling and then slamming his face into the floor and seeming to try to walk through the floor, it was really weird, I've never seen him do it any other time.
 
Same thing happened te me and my cat, I was convinced he'd gotten into my stash, I was freaked out, but every time I'd go away, I'd give it a minute and peek around the corner and he'd be acting completely normally. It's a little easier to traditionally rationalize a cat for me though because they pick up on your vibes so strongly, I think it's likely he was just freaked out by my energy. Still, what he was doing was yowling and then slamming his face into the floor and seeming to try to walk through the floor, it was really weird, I've never seen him do it any other time.
Again - I've had similar experiences and had similar hypotheses/explanations.
 
xork said:
Same thing happened te me and my cat, I was convinced he'd gotten into my stash, I was freaked out, but every time I'd go away, I'd give it a minute and peek around the corner and he'd be acting completely normally. It's a little easier to traditionally rationalize a cat for me though because they pick up on your vibes so strongly, I think it's likely he was just freaked out by my energy. Still, what he was doing was yowling and then slamming his face into the floor and seeming to try to walk through the floor, it was really weird, I've never seen him do it any other time.

OMG, if I had a dollar for every time I thought a cat or dog knew I was tripping...8(
Our pets are more acutely sensitive to our mental states than we are wont to give'em credit for! :)
Maybe humans would be too, if we weren't so cluttered with projecting our preconceived notions, and minding the verbal content of communication above all else. However, I for one am glad they're not that perspicacious, I wouldn't want people to know what I was up to. ;)

tranced said:
There are so many misconceptions about science and what it means. Really it's just the validation of the known.

Kind of the opposite. The scientific method, which is substantially based upon collecting data that is both empirical and quantifiable, is a method for creating truth claims out of conjecture and supposition. Also, consider the importance of predictive power.

tranced said:
The unknown is so ridiculously vast, especially if we're talking about a single specie's efforts to validate it, or even a single individuals knowledge or interpretation of that.

Our species evolved to survive and reproduce, just like other terrestrial lifeforms. We can't intuit the Navier-stokes equations, or the atmospheric composition of Jupiter, but the mental and physiological tools that we have at our disposal are such that we can produce testable theories that predict the behavior of empirical phenomena.

That's the great thing about the scientific method, it is neither esoteric nor abstruse (though the hypotheses it tests might be). Any other individual, or species of individuals, should be able to falsify our truth claims.

poseman said:
I suggest leaning your head close to the point where you can read what you are typing. Pay attention to how people interpret what you are saying.

Would you care to explain how empiricism is often conflated with scientific realism (which ought to be contrasted with instrumentalism, which is no less empirical)? 'cause I feel like this subforum has a number of potential converts to an instrumentalist way of viewing truth claims, since they could adopt that school of thought without trampling on their irrational personal convictions. I have my own irrational personal convictions, but I am not as inclined to flippantly proselytize them as some folks are, 'cause I know enough to recognize my own ignorance, and respect the results of a method of inquiry that produces falsifiable claims upon reproducible, measurable data, and that does what it can to eliminate sources of bias.

As things stand, the hoi polloi see your arguments as justified by circular or tautological reasoning. We know why rational thought is necessary, but to people who don't, it sounds like we're saying "We have to be rational because it is the rational thing to do." or that our critiques of errant ways of thinking are in some sense subjective, 'cause some folk have yet to learn the difference between the validity of the results of purely qualitative research (that they have, in some capacity, performed), and quantitative research. I hope I'm not misusing any terms.
 
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Our species evolved to survive and reproduce, just like other terrestrial lifeforms. We can't intuit the Navier-stokes equations, or the atmospheric composition of Jupiter, but the mental and physiological tools that we have at our disposal are such that we can produce testable models that approximate ontological reality well enough to predict the behavior of empirical phenomena.

That's the great thing about the scientific method, it is neither esoteric nor abstruse (though the hypotheses it tests might be). Any other individual, or species of individuals, should be able to falsify our truth claims.

I think you misinterpret my point. My point was that science, whether that be the knowledge of any one single individual, or even the entire wealth of knowledge held by our entire species, is significantly small when viewed in the infinite scheme of things.

I'm not disputing the scientific method; it's great.

I'm just highlighting that psychedelics have not been significantly explored by science, and hence reside in that murky grey and as of yet unexplored area.

As such they are not really privy to the usual rules about what is and isn't considered scientific.
 
I'm just highlighting that psychedelics have not been significantly explored by science, and hence reside in that murky grey and as of yet unexplored area.

Fuck yeah, I can agree with this. The therapeutic potential of these drugs has been inadequately explored, and empirical evidence continues to support their usefulness as a medicinal tool, while the official stance claims the opposite. This is not the fault of scientific investigation so much as the political interference with science as a meritocratic tool for the investigation of novel medicinal techniques. Of course, I'm a freak who whilst strongly disagreeing with it, does not hate prohibition, since it really doesn't hurt the majority of persons (yeah mofos, greatest good for the greatest number is why I support our position. Otherwise I'd consider my own actions as logically unjustifiable, not that that'd dissuade me from my course).

In short, I have to misinterpret you slightly, otherwise my position would remain too nebulous to have utility.
 
I don't understand exactly what you're asking, but I will say that logic and reason is not proof of anything, empiricism gives us numbers to plan with and that is not proof of anything. In science it is assumed that there are theories and not facts.

However, between the paradoxes and unknowns, there are a lot of good theoretical explanations that seem logical and give no erroneous results. Other times there is no real, as of yet, good explanation and we probably need to make some different measurements.

"vast emptiness"

For instance I am seeing a lot of, "vastness of the unknown". How do we know that the unknown is vast?

Did you measure it?

Perhaps the unknown is tiny. Perhaps it is green or made up of pigeons. Perhaps in all the activity in making room for the unknown we forgot that we do not know.

Even though logic can't be used to identify nature it can and should be used to reveal truth where it is capable. Everyone makes use of it, so there is no reason to go into defending logic. Armed with information logic can be devastating and without information it tends to nonsense.
 
I am not the one who is being dismissive. I have experienced this and have particularly good insight into the subject. I am no novice. I even reexperienced this today briefly after talking about it with you. This sensation is along the lines of megalomania. It seems to fit with what you and others experienced without assuming a previously unknown force of nature.

Our mind creates our reality. If we choose to focus on rainbows, we see rainbows. Do you think your subconscious is removed?

Normal people are able to have religious (or whatever you like to call them) experiences without psychedelics. You are able to be around these people without telling them you are on drugs.

You are seeing it in people, you are not putting it there.

I am still interested in discussing this further, and clearly there more has been presented here than this effect alone can explain. But I am a believer in explanation and nothing slips between the cracks of definition. We can figure out what's going on.

*****

Your question is asking if one's own state of mind can affect another's state of mind?

I think people expect their prayers to be answered and can see that they have, in very imaginative ways.

I think it is convenient to blame other people for our own misfortune, due to their own evil thoughts.

The simple fact is that I am lucky. I forget to bring by uniform to work and neglect to do my homework and it turns out class was cancelled or they updated the uniforms. Whatever it is. I just call it luck.

I keep random junk in my car, not because I am crazy, but because when I need something I know having some sort of materials on hand will help things work out. Having people around somehow makes my emotions work our as well. So to answer your question, yes.

People are always amazed when I am able to bust out the "one" thing they needed out of my pocket. Toothbrush, size 2023 battery, a photograph of the Eiffel Tower. I am a regular Uri Geller.

My time predications are often more accurate than the watch of a passerby. Be amazed. But my abilities do not depend on magical forces, but rather on intelligence in finding and believing that there is always a solution. I understand the limitations of the mind and persevere. So they are not real limitations, just excuses.

At the same time, I lose my own keys and while looking for those, I lose my cell phone.

Sometimes there is no luck, and then it sucks, but we tend to ignore that crap and focus on positive outcomes. I suggest keeping a year-long journal; otherwise, you will never realize how much (evidence) you forget.


This just sounded super vague. Everyone is lucky every now and then. You're busting people's toothbrushes out of your pocket? What's that even supposed to mean and how would it be clean if it was stuffed in your pocket. Or was it a brand new one?

I'm imagining you are in your car with a fellow drug user and they're all like, I sure could use a toothbrush and you just pop it out? Or maybe they say it would be super useful to have a picture of the eiffel tower and you just show it them? And that's supposed to be mystical or mean you're a psychic?


Take a moment to step back and read your own posts, they're super weird and seem like nonsense. I dont even mean to be picking on you or anything so if you're just bothered by it just ignore me. But maybe take a couple seconds to think about why your posts read like nonsense to other people.

Edit: I dont even feel good about making a personal comment to you since its not directly related to the threads theme, my point is just letting you know the way you are expressing yourself is just strange. You seem a little out of it, just letting you know.
 
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There were a few grammatical errors but Never Knows Best is right.

We are designed to find solutions. In that design we have faults where we can see patterns and modify (erase) perceptions.

When there is no real information everything becomes a pattern.

My question is, do you think without a subconscious? Because I have a subconscious and it can be easily tricked.

Try reading through it again. Did this improve anything for you?
 
one of the most vivid hallucinations I've see was slenderman giving me a thumbs up, then turning into dust and blowing away with the breeze
 
A friend of mine (who is of totally sound mind) said he has a friend who was struck by lightning and nearly died. Ever since then, lights flicker and he can shock you, and he also is apparently able to make you have visions and powerfully alter your consciousness with his hands on your head. I have never met this person but I would be really surprised if my friend was lying (but I suppose you never know).

My best friend fries the motherboard of every computer he has ever owned, within like 2 weeks. It baffles everyone and the experts. Also in high school I programmed this TI-83 calculator RPG game, really simple and basic, there was this one creature that took one hit with any weapon and whenever me or anyone else was playing, every time it worked. But you'd hand it to my friend in question and it would never die. He'd try for a while and then hand it back to me (on the same creature) and as soon as I tried, it would die in 1 hit. Really bizarre.

He doesn't trip either nor did anything happen like being struck by lightning or anything else. It's just part of him.
 
OMG, if I had a dollar for every time I thought a cat or dog knew I was tripping...8(
Our pets are more acutely sensitive to our mental states than we are wont to give'em credit for! :)

Off-topic, but once I was in pretty deep emotional distress (it was pretty obvious) and went to see the goats (I was working in a farm lol), went to the fence, and they all came towards me, very close, nearly touching me, not looking afraid at all. They seemed very curious. Empathy maybe? Usually they were afraid and would just stay away.

A friend of mine (who is of totally sound mind) said he has a friend who was struck by lightning and nearly died. Ever since then, lights flicker and he can shock you, and he also is apparently able to make you have visions and powerfully alter your consciousness with his hands on your head. I have never met this person but I would be really surprised if my friend was lying (but I suppose you never know).

My best friend fries the motherboard of every computer he has ever owned, within like 2 weeks. It baffles everyone and the experts. Also in high school I programmed this TI-83 calculator RPG game, really simple and basic, there was this one creature that took one hit with any weapon and whenever me or anyone else was playing, every time it worked. But you'd hand it to my friend in question and it would never die. He'd try for a while and then hand it back to me (on the same creature) and as soon as I tried, it would die in 1 hit. Really bizarre.

He doesn't trip either nor did anything happen like being struck by lightning or anything else. It's just part of him.

Very interesting stuff.

That reminds me of a divination session I had done with a friend of mine. I don't believe at all in this kind of stuff. But it worked, I saw it with my eyes. Still nowadays I don't believe in spirits and think that there must be a scientific explanation. One that we don't have yet.

Also, I used to program RPG's on calculators too! Haha. Mine were simpler I think tho.
 
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