Why is the European rave scene so much better than the American (IMO)?

americans are stuck on rock and roll imo

nothing wrong with that, but there are enclaves of dance music/electronic music culture

they mostly seem to revolve around urban centers: New York, San Francisco, Seattle, Denver, Washington DC, Philadelphia, Miami, etc.
 
Try this nuttynutskin, used to be a classic at a selected Techno event I used to attend, 5am this came on quite regular =D



"One thing I love to do is........."
 
Therapy & Renegade Hardware crew right here, a few Bangface raves in my time too :)
I feel for you American people that have good taste in music.
 
Bodda said:
the worst though I have to admit was my time in Norway by far. Even in the 2nd City Bergen there was NO rave scene & this is the country that gave the drum & bass scene Teebee & Polar.[/url]
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There's actually lots of raves in Oslo, and I know there are in Bergen too. When you first find one rave, you'll start finding others. They're just hidden from the public. I guess it's a more closed scene than in the UK and other places.


Generally in Europe, we have a very good EDM scene, I feel. I see there's raves all over all the time.
 
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From what i've heard the EU has a more underground type scene and less of an "EDM" scene (meaning stand in front of the stage with your hands in the air hyping the crowd while a premixed CD plays in the background). Of course when you compare Ibiza to the UK, its an entirely different culture. But as far as the US goes... While the festival environment can be phenomenal (so long as it's not that UMF mainstream electro house music festival - see the mashleg i put above somewhere in here) the underground environment can be just as good. The feel of the environment is completely different. A good DJ can fit the vibes of both environments perfectly, whereas most of these kid "DJs" in America don't play that 90s jungle/dnb/hardcore stuff which fits perfectly in the underground-type clubs, and instead resort to that mainstream house which every single beatport top100 sounds like, skrillex, and this whole fucking trap music bandwagon. people need to learn that there is a time and place for that, just as their is a time and place for everything else. one of my favorite video clips showing the aspect of "fitting the mood" is bassnectar's sunrise burning man set at 09.



Would any of these self-proclaimed "DJs" coming out today play a set like that for that environment? Hell no, they would try to throw a raging, throwing-bows party set and kill the entire vibe of the sunrise. There is too much stress on "reading the crowd" (bullshit excuse, a good performer can manipulate the crowd and play exactly what they want and dictate the energy, versus trying to force it), and less stress on appealing to the setting, time, and environment of where they are playing. Perfect example from experience, at one "undergroundish" event I went to last year, there were these kid DJs standing on the speakers dancing in front while a CD played a loop for about 5 minutes multiple times in the set, while the better guys were back there the whole time making a point to do their best and put on a good fucking show. Another problem is the emergence of Traktor and Serrato type softwares, which make these kids have to do as little work as possible while playing one song only to have another cued as they slowly shift the crossfader into it. And repeat the process... for 2 hours... The same thing happens though when anything becomes too mainstream. Rock music was phenomenal in the Woodstock era, and went to shit when it was glamoured by the media and it became a how bad can you look, how fast can you play, and how many drugs can you do to make news. Hip hop was fantastic lyrically in the 80s into the early 2000's, but mainstream media turned into a get "crunk," play some overboosted clipping 808s that sound fucking terrible while repeating the same 4 lyrics that don't make sense for 5 minutes... and now with this house and trap wave, its just losing it's creativity like everything else before it, and turning into an "image" vs a culture. you take some molly and rage to the same loud music for 8 hours, instead of going to an event, experience the culture, make some new friends, and experience something incredibly special...

The video below is what I mean by dancing in front of the stage. Worst part is, these kids love it here in the US, which is probably why stuff like this will continue and all of the talented performers will remain bedroom DJs and slowly fade, except for the select few who meet the right people.

 
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Good points, although the last vid looks like a graduation or something so I wouldn't exactly expect Neophyte to be playing. :p



lulz
 
Graduation or not, you still see people at festivals and other events do that same thing, just stand in front of the stage waving their hands in the air or crowd surfing as a CD or auto-synced loop is playing in the background. And that video is hilarious, even though that's what all these new "DJs" up and coming today would look like if you take away their effect every 60 seconds. Most of em are just flippin random knobs anyways for no reason the whole time, and if you ever go behind their computer screens they have a track playing with another one cued on a loop just so they can fade in or "scratch" into in a real shitty manner 5 minutes later. I don't have a problem with people doing that starting out because you gotta learn transitions somehow and someway, and thats a great way to start. But in the end, they don't move on to anything different and all sound the same. Literally, set to set sounds exactly the same.

I went to 2 Fools Gold and one Never Say Die event at SXSW last year and aside from Zomboy at the Never Say Die thing, everyone's set literally sounded the exact same throughout. Flosstradamus was just 140bpm-150bpm trap music for about an hour, and then changing the tempo briefly later on (I'm pretty sure that they played literally the same exact set 2 nights in a row, aside from one or two tracks), and all the other guys did that same either moombahton or trap for a full hour or so. Same goes with these other kids at parties playing the same exact mixture of the beatport top100, krewella, and skrillex type tracks just for hours on end. It honestly gets boring. I go to events for the variety of styles and a different approach to performance from person to person, so going to an event for 6 hours and seeing the same thing day in and day out gets frustrating. But where there is money and glam, the crowd will most certainly follow. What astonishes me is that people have all these auto-sync, auto-loop, and auto-cue options and can only use these tools to do just that. Auto-sync, auto-loop, and auto-cue for 90 minutes plus. A good performer would find a way to use those in a fashion to get those hassles out of the way, and replace the work that it takes to do those things with working to add a different form of uniqueness to the set. Instead, it's a lot easier to just be lazy, do less work, and jump up and down while waving their hands in the air. And worst of all there are groups of duo-DJs today who do this for 90 minutes!! How can some of the really good guys do 10 times more on their own in a set than groups of duo-DJs? Is it that one stands there and acts like their doing something while the other does the minimal work? Or is it that complex to learn how to auto-loop and auto-sync that it takes more than one person to do it (How many new "DJs" does it take to screw in a lightbulb?)... I respect a guy who continuously fucks up while trying to put on a mind-blowing performance wayyy more than a guy who plays a set with minimal mistakes that is just bland and boring. The aspect of fucking up shows that they are pushing their comfort zone, and will only improve from there.

Playing tracks that can make people move is easy. They are already made for you and all you have to do is press play, and people will move to it for 3 minutes. Playing a moving set for more than 3 minutes at a time takes not necessarily endless talent, but definitely a lot more effort. Guys like Jimi Hendrix and Eric Clapton would practice their guitars 8 hours plus a day. One of my friends recorded a track with his band in Eric Johnson's studio, and the mastering engineer or tech guy that worked there said Eric practices his guitar 8-10 hours plus a day in a small little room without even taking breaks. Few DJs do that today. Most of these kids just listen to party tunes then go play a party once every while and play the same thing they did the time before. How many hours of working on sets to they do a week? I'd say no more than 1 or 2. Maybe they play multiple sets but it usually isn't to expand on their abilities or general wisdom of performance. It's just because they are bored and feel like doing it.

Music today is more about the image, and less about the talent, at least in the US. Hence why you have ignorant, talentless fucks like Miley Cyrus and Justin Bieber being worshiped while nobody really knows who the fuck someone like Mimi Page is (just an example). Go to the UK or other areas of the underground scene in EU, you will run into guys who put more heart and soul into their sets. Not that there aren't guys here in the US that do that, but they are much fewer and farther between.
 
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North America had a thriving rave culture until the early 2000's when there was a concerted continental effort to shut down the scene due to drug use. It's now split between commercial venues (not really raves anymore) or underground raves. Legit raves are hard to come by in the major cities. Last time I raved in the old school fashion was in Toronto in 2004 when one or two venues still held jungle events, but they've been shutdown now. The strategies that cities here used to shut it down involved changing the permit rules, and making it more expensive for all night venues to apply for permits. Clubs will choose profit over raves any time, so the rave scene died.

I'll never forget my friend calling me in 2003 outside of New York City saying that their legal rave had been raided by the police with helicopters, dogs and everything because an undercover cop found ONE underaged person there with ecstacy pills on them. The fascism developed quickly.

Europe and especially the UK has a much higher tolerance for electronic music events. The puritanical attitude of North American governments is getting more and more extreme every year.
 
nuttynutskin said:
Something I've always wondered... It seems like as far as sheer quantity of festivals/raves, and also for that type of techno, America doesn't even hold a candle to Europe. And I'm not saying there's no good American artists and raves at all, but unlike Europe they seem to be few and far between, and also more based in house and electro than say gabber, hardstyle, hardcore, etc. Is it just a regional thing?
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You have Skrillex.
 
skrillex only appears to appeal to frat boys and the bro-ish crowd here in the states. most of the electronic music crowd that doesn't go to festivals just to get fucked up and be retarded can't stand skrillex, and think he is overrated as shit. i feel like once anyone develops a liking for electronic music they stretch their appreciation for acts that go beyond that screechy skrillexy brostep that tends to be on repeat at frat parties and such...
 
At the risk of being beaten by some people in this section I actually like some Skrillex. I've only heard a handful of his songs but yeah, I thought they were decent. Whether he's overrated and what his fan base is I don't really care.
 
you fucking ignorant little shit.... jk haha.

different strokes for different folks. i'm simply focusing on the live aspect of it, not generalizing on all his music. i just realized that after that whole scary monsters and equinox wave back in 2010-11 he seems to be non-existent now in the electronic music community. to the point where i never hear anybody from that community playing his music or even talk about his music, touring, or whereabouts. in the fratty/party community, i hear it all the time. but it still doesn't mean that everyone agrees with everything on the same level, as you will find people in both groups who like acts that others generally don't, and vice versa. i saw skrillex twice in one weekend back in 2011 and his music sounded generally the same throughout and his sets sounded very bland. however, his song entitled "With You Friends" remains one of my favorite songs to this day. so i guess really, i like some of his songs but not the ones that have that brostep/ultra feel. whereas some of his other songs like the one mentioned above and "All I Ask of You" i rather enjoy... I will not however, pay 80+ bucks to see one of his sets, as they are just not that worth it to me. I would much rather pay 20 bucks and see a guy like Rusko or Doctor P play a set if I wanted a brosteppy vibe. I had my world blown by excision the first time for 30 bucks. there are simply better live performers out there, and for a fraction of the price... If I'm paying over 80 dollars to see one act, it better be someone like Pink Floyd or The Stones. Not a guy who is simply average at mixing premade sets.
 
clackclick said:
Most of the people I know which like Skrillex are not educated about electronic music at all. Without having cheated by looking at your profile or your last posts, I would immediately infer you're either not European, very young, or you preferred listening to non-electronic music until very recently (it's also likely more than one of those three statements is true).
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I don't think you need to look that far to figure out he isn't from the EU. just read the title of the page. I am relatively young, born in Europe but spent almost my whole life in the US, and I only got really into Electronic Music less than 2 years ago... does that mean I am uneducated about it? not necessarily. i don't have the expertise of Dave Tipper but i can guarantee that you don't either. Sure I loved listening to metal through high school (guys like Agalloch, Deftones, Lamb of God...) and some oldschool to late 90s hip-hop for example, but that still doesn't make me inferior in understanding the foundations to making electronic music.

The dude likes some Skrillex. Who really cares. He obviously is looking for a better approach to live performance and such, which is really what it is about. Basic generalizations like this are incredibly immature and childish...
 
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firstborn said:
There's actually lots of raves in Oslo, and I know there are in Bergen too. When you first find one rave, you'll start finding others. They're just hidden from the public. I guess it's a more closed scene than in the UK and other places.


Generally in Europe, we have a very good EDM scene, I feel. I see there's raves all over all the time.
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My ex lives not that far from Bergen & I spent alot of time over there & saw nothing.
She went to a so called "Dubstep" rave which had to be listed as an art show ?!?!??!? to get around noise levels.
 
When I moved to central Norway, I would never have found the rave scene if I didn't randomly meet someone who was into it. Raves here (in Oslo) are mostly held in warehouses and occupied buildings... or in the woods.

I still just hear about raves from people who go there, get invitations to Facebook-events and such from people who know I might wanna go there. That's how I sometimes see raves in Bergen.

Norway is very strict when it comes to electronic music events, because of drug use. I was at Sensation White in Oslo last year, and there was police everywhere. I got stopped several times because they thought I was on drugs (I was only drunk.) Out of 8000 attending, they caught about 120 people (I think) using drugs. And because of that, Sensation isn't wanted as host to more events here. Police here sucks.

I'm somehow not surprised at all that they had to list it as an art show.
 
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