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Why is MDMA addiction so much rarer than other stimulants?

LucidSDreamr

LucidSDreamr

Bluelighter
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Why is MDMA addiction so much rarer than other stimulants?

is it because it fucks you up so badly when you abuse it or that it doesn’t work well used repeatedly like meth?
 
I think that meth is worse than molly because if somebody screws up on meth and accidentally stays up all night worrying about it, they're in a spot where they're darn tempted to take a little puff to help them make it through work the next day.

Not so with molly. Few people are tempted to try to 'correct' a molly overflow by taking more molly the next day.

I mean the meth-molly comparison is especially interesting because some make the academic argument that meth isn't truly addictive, given that you can essentially sleep off the withdrawl symptoms. But what makes meth habit-forming (read: dangerous & addictive) is the fact that any mistake will result in you staying up too late, and meth is then both the cause and the cure of a new series of recurring problems in your life. Good luck chasing that monkey off of your back.
 
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All these blurred lines between addiction, dependency, phsychologic dependence, habitual abuser, etc. All I know is, bluelight contains thousands of stories of people recovering from chronic MDMA abuse.

Believe me, I want to use molly every day. For me, the secret is to love the stuff, truly love it. And you don’t abuse the one you love. It’s too precious to abuse.
 
I could never imagine using it every day. Even using 2 days in a row, while I love it, is exhausting. It’s a drug that takes so much out of me and also needs integration. I use it both for the acute effects and the long term antidepressant effects I get in the weeks after.

When I was younger I had a couple 4 day sessions, god did I feel like hell after those. MDMA will have someone depressed in no time, and very diminishing returns.

So all that combined creates this very nice drug that can really improve quality of life if used sparingly, or completely destroy you if used often.

-GC
 
G_Chem said:
I could never imagine using it every day. Even using 2 days in a row, while I love it, is exhausting. It’s a drug that takes so much out of me and also needs integration. I use it both for the acute effects and the long term antidepressant effects I get in the weeks after.

When I was younger I had a couple 4 day sessions, god did I feel like hell after those. MDMA will have someone depressed in no time, and very diminishing returns.

So all that combined creates this very nice drug that can really improve quality of life if used sparingly, or completely destroy you if used often.

-GC
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I agree but I’ll apply the same points to meth. I’d be curious to know the percentage of ppl that try meth and end up addicted vs say cocaine. There sure seems to be a ton of addicts of meth though and maybe availability is partially to blame. Idk

I could never imagine using meth daily.

I feel like meth comedowns are way worse than MDMA but yet people still abuse it. The comedown deterrent doesn’t seem to exist with meth.
 
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Meth/coke/cathinones/dopaminergic euphoric stims in general - are so much more compulsive / reinforcing than mdma, and the returns aren't as immediately diminished.

Even at the height of my mdma usage I wouldn't have any desire to use again for at least two weeks after a decent dose
 
Well they’re different kinds of drugs, but I think part of it is cultural. Usually people view mdma as a party drug, something you take when you want to have a really good time with your friends. But there’s plenty of people who take mdma every weekend when they go out to the nightclub or whatever. There’s also a minority that take it multiple times a week at home by themselves, but usually that pattern doesn’t last too long because the side effects of mdma abuse can be pretty brutal.
 
ageingpartyfiend said:
Meth/coke/cathinones/dopaminergic euphoric stims in general - are so much more compulsive / reinforcing than mdma, and the returns aren't as immediately diminished.

Even at the height of my mdma usage I wouldn't have any desire to use again for at least two weeks after a decent dose
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mdma is extremely dopaminergic too though even though that aspect of it is played down. But if you look at amphetamine inspired drugs that are purely serotonin releasers (I’m blanking on the names but there is one)…they lack all the magic of mdma and Mdxx. the dopamine flood of mdma is part of the magic recipe of that drug as much as the serotonin imo.

I’m wondering if the high serotonin release had some sort of deterrent effect that overrides addictiveness of the dopaminergic side. I mean cocaine is a very strong reuptak inhibitor of serotonin (Ive read mdma is a big realeaser though unlike coke being a bigger reuptake inhibitor of serotonin)…but yea meth is a pretty big serotonin relaser also.

It’s a fine balance of all these different effects in different stims. I’d love to see a side by side self admiration study on rats of all these different stimulants then a pharmacological rationale for the result…if it’s the same as with humans.
 
^^^ cathinones would be the same for me, apart from the compilsive redosing while actualy on the drug I wouldn;t be fancying anymore for a couple of weeks afterwards

shit's complex! people are different
 
LucidSDreamr said:
for sure this. That’s why I’d love to see comparison self admin study in rats of all these drugs vs mdxx. It would even be cool to see if there are differences across all the different mdxx
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MDA is more compulsive and also easier to use multiple days in a row. But when you comedown from a multi day MDA sesh be prepared to have a moment where you think about looking down the barrel of gun. The depression is unimaginable.

This is also why Shulgins experiment of taking MDMA until completely diminished effects then taking MDA wasn’t the full story on difference mode of action. If reversed using MDA 5 days then MDMA you wouldn’t feel shit.

On multiple day sessions if MDA was ever part of equation it was always on the last day, otherwise it would dull out a plain MDMA experience.

This probably has to do with MDA’s increased dopamine release.

-GC
 
Because of tolerance of sero stims is shit, and takes quite long to be "the same" magic as when you do it "at the beginning".
Once you do it too often it's not even fun. I personally feel quite fried for a couple days after a sero releaser, so I don't like to indulge too much. It feels much more ritualistic than pure NDRIs or only Dopamine/Norepinephrine releasers.
There's a reason why some physicians like Claudio Naranjo consider empathogens and sero releasers like MDMA closer to psychedelics.
 
Neuroborean said:
Because of tolerance of sero stims is shit, and takes quite long to be "the same" magic as when you do it "at the beginning".
Once you do it too often it's not even fun. I personally feel quite fried for a couple days after a sero releaser, so I don't like to indulge too much. It feels much more ritualistic than pure NDRIs or only Dopamine/Norepinephrine releasers.
There's a reason why some physicians like Claudio Naranjo consider empathogens and sero releasers like MDMA closer to psychedelics.
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I said this above but I’ll repeat it. I found meth comedowns to be way worse than MDMA back when I experimented with stimulants. This is definitely not my area of extensive drug experience though.

I’m prettt sure both MDMA and meth are both very strong serotonin and dopamine releasers.

The unique thing mdma has that meth doesn’t is serotonin receptor agonist (I’m the form of it’s main metabolite MDA).
 
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I
gordonliddy said:
I think that meth is worse than molly because if somebody screws up on meth and accidentally stays up all night worrying about it, they're in a spot where they're darn tempted to take a little puff to help them make it through work the next day.

Not so with molly. Few people are tempted to try to 'correct' a molly overflow by taking more molly the next day.

I mean the meth-molly comparison is especially interesting because some make the academic argument that meth isn't truly addictive, given that you can essentially sleep off the withdrawl symptoms. But what makes meth habit-forming (read: dangerous & addictive) is the fact that any mistake will result in you staying up too late, and meth is then both the cause and the cure of a new series of recurring problems in your life. Good luck chasing that monkey off of your back.
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I had to take benadryl to sleep like 16 or 20 hrs after did small line was crazy lol
 
It's just kinda more expensive, harder to produce, effects don't last as long. You can use crack, speed, cristal often and get the same high. MDMA won't work after a while. It becomes less efficient.

MDMA has addiction qualities for sure. But nothing like the three mentioned earlier.
 
That being said a fair amount of beginners like myself abused the shiiii out of MDMA during "the rave years" . I was a zombie for months.
 
LucidSDreamr said:
Why is MDMA addiction so much rarer than other stimulants?

is it because it fucks you up so badly when you abuse it or that it doesn’t work well used repeatedly like meth?
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Because MDMA actually has a relatively fast onset of tachyphilaxis (That is the phenomenon of loss of effect after successive daily use) and it quickly turns to dysphoria, meaning a negative reinforcing effect after I believe the fourth consecutive day. So starting on the 5th consecutive day of use taking MDMA makes you feel bad.

This is completely unlike meow meow (4-MMC), AMPHETAMINE OR METHAMPHETAMINE substances that you can compulsively re-dose and get the same effects for several days. Reinforcing the behavior because of subjective effects are still pleasurable.

I believe that would be the functional reason.
 
And when I say dysphoria, I mean dysphoria. Back in my heyday i would take usually Thursday, Friday, Saturday. Sometimes Thursday, Friday, Saturday, Sunday. I made the mistake of successive dosing past the weekend and it was not a good experience. The fifth day when I took the first pill and the onset came. It was the opposite of pleasurable. And it only took me one time experiencing that to never do it again and I usually only rolled three consecutive days after that unless there was some special event that necessitated a fourth.

And I attribute those properties of MDMA to the reason why I have never craved it, simply could enjoy it, to the tune of somewhere between 500 and 1,000 pills.

Obviously I I'm not promoting profligate consumption of MDMA like I did. And it's not exaggerated 6 to 10 pills a weekend Thursday to Sunday, Thursday to Saturday with maybe four or five weeks throughout the year that I didn't party.

No, I am lucky to have the physiology that I have and to have completely dodged all of the toxic substances and compounds that could have adulterated the pills and powder that I was taking.
 
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