Heroin Why is heroin more addicting than oxycodone?

[EphemeralOutlet141]

Far easier said than done lol. At least with oxy it's totally measured so if you overdosed you've deliberately taken way much during a relpase.

Hey man I get it, I'm just saying that a lapse in judgment can end in death in extreme circumstances like heroin addiction. Oxy is a bit different story not denying that.

 

[Synergist1]

I think they are much more similar than a lot of yall are stating. Especially early on in addiction.
If you are anywhere near my age group, ( just starting to get into prescription “pharmies” in the late 90’s-early 2000’s) then chances are you didnt get addicted to heroin, you got addicted to oxycodone/hydrocodone, and once youre addicted to opiates - it kinda changes you right then and there... regardless of whether its bupe, poppy seed tea, oxy, or heroin.
I never even considered heroin growing up, even after i became fascinated with drugs and was trying to experience every substance under the sun- heroin was the one drug i knew i never wanted to try. It just had this stigma attached and everybody knew “ dont fuck w this one”.
But there was no stigma around benzos , adderall , percs , hyrocodone, ... and we did them all. I was mainly into mdma, lsd,(psychedelics in general)... weed, k , ghb.
I was a little out there, but functional. I was in college. Very into the jamband scene. Even if u were lucky enough to find a perc, it was 5-10$/each so u were doing maybe 5-10 mg oxy. It felt good i guess, but i never would have tried to take enough to nod .
But then oxycontin begin coming around. At first i didnt know much about opiates or oxycontin, and wasnt even that interested. I didnt know about the time release coating, and i think i even ate the first oc 80 i did WITHOUT removing the coating. Thank god, bc i def would have died.
I remember one night a yr later a bartender prepped an OC 20mg for me bc i didnt know how to , or to snort it. Once the coating was removed and it was crushed up into lines , I experienced the best high of my life. I was all about oxy from then on. Every weekend, id make sure to have a 20 or 40 lined up. Gradually tolerance went up, to the point of needing an 80 to last a full day. It was so expensive , it kept my habit small.... At this stage i still didnt fully realize how similar oxy and heroin were. I think millions of H users fell into this same trap.
I remember also having access to hydrocodone that id take tons of when i couldnt get my oxy, so i didnt experience WDs ... yet.
Oxy demands sores and prices skyrocket. Then u couldnt even get them.
Finally, one night as im desperate to find some oxy , my dealer stops by and says: “ive got something like oxy” and he hands me a stamp of H , totally rips me off charging 20$, yet it was still cheaper than oxy. It felt the same to me. So I continued w the H until i moved home.
I found myself craving it... any opioid. Oxy, H, percs. Didnt matter.
Then i was at a party and when i was leaving there was a crew slinging some fire dope around the corner. It was my first open air drug market experience in the hood like that, and i kinda expected to get ripped off, but they brought me back a bag after i paid them 10$.
I expected similar potentcy to what id done in past , and sniffed 1/4 bag. Holy fuck, it was so much stronger, i nodded so hard i was probably close to unconscious. Id never nodded so hard bc i didnt know it was possible. It was only bc of the unpredictability of the the potency of heroin that i instantly fell in love with the “nod”.
It was like the first time doing oxy, but better. And cheaper.
So now i was no longer looking to sniff a line and go socialize, i was looking to sniff a line and nod the fuck out for several hours. I didnt need the invincible feeling, the feeling of unlimited witty conversations or ability to work long hrs without pain. I just wanted to be sprawled out... floating on a cloud in lala land.
And from then on, no need looking for overpriced oxy, when H was so so much cheaper. Its hold on me tightened to the point i started IV use, and its been my best friend and worst enemy ever since.
Sorry for the novel, but my point is
(TL,DR ) : i was addicted to opiates via oxy, and had it not been for my oxy use- id never touched heroin in a million years.
Doctors and big pharma caused my addiction by pumping so much oxycontin into society, which is what started this opiate epidemic we are now in.
Oxycontin seemed like any other pharmy, no diff than adderall or valium( neither is harmless by any means, but its not like oxy )
Those oxycontin were almost talor-made to get young, white, wealthy suburban kids hooked on strong , high dose opiates.
When i first started looking for H on the streets, it was hard to find. Most dealers were workin coke and/or didnt trust a young white guy not to be a police or snitch. But within a couple yrs, heroin was everywhere... and everybody had switched to it bc oxy wasnt around, or they could no longer afford them. But everyone could afford H. But as stated, between vary potency and bag sizes, it becomes impossible to track your use and eventually your tolerance is higher than itd ever be from oxy alone. You are now an addict.
So i disagree that heroin is more addicting than H.
I think it just appears that way bc most ppls addiction doesnt really spiral out of control until youve ran the gamit of opiates, landing on the cheapest , strongest, and most available- heroin.
Personally- If i were offered an 0C 80 or an equil-potency bag of non-fent , good quality dope, ( i mean the quantity equals the Anesthesia/euphoria of the oxy ) i wouldnt really care which. I do believe i can feel just as good off oxy as heroin, and some ppl prefer oxy to heroin.ime.
Id probably choice the 80, bc it lasts longer if ate.
A lot of ppl rave about the rush, but it never did much for me. Im more interested in the several hrs of nodding.

 

[Nagelfar]

there was a study of apes self administering opioids IV (with assistance of course) and morphine and heroin were considered indistinguishable and were favored over other choices. Only one ape chose oxycodone. I think it may have to do with histamine release. Then again morphine and 6-acetylmorphine (metabolite of heroin but not morphine) are found naturally in mammals. Oxycodone is found in a Polish orchid. Fentanyl, no where AFAIK.

 

[GetMeOutOfThisCRAP]

I know that oxycodone can be just as life-destroying if not more than heroin can, but I just haven't seen the same behavior from people who use oxy as with people who use heroin. Heroin has proven to be a much harder habit to kick in my opinion, and it being more of a hardcore downer seems to alter a user's functionality in most cases.

I guess with heroin product being so incredibly variable it's also hard to moderate your tolerance and have it sky-rocket over the course of a month. At that point, you're having to self-medicate a monstrous opiate habit and it can become even more expensive than an oxy habit ever was.

So I'm not stating that oxycodone is benign, but I do think there are characteristics of oxycodone use that makes it "less addictive" over a longer period of time. I've never seen a heroin addict moderate their stash like someone does with oxy. Heroin seems more about getting high as possible.

 

[Nagelfar]

Mindset I guess, from what post above implies, legalized heroin with a set dosage would be less life condemning than unknwon quality over and over again. That kind of sets one up to up their dose not knowing for sure their use. Most don't weigh or measure, but just eyeball, their shots.

 

[Gormur]

I like morphine but I wouldn't pay for it. I think oxycodone is stronger for pain

People my age i've asked seem to have no clue about heroin. It must be strictly regional, so I don't care. I'd definitely prefer finding hydromorphone. Not only for the pleasant effect i've read about but also because it kills pain

 

[GetMeOutOfThisCRAP]

Mindset I guess, from what post above implies, legalized heroin with a set dosage would be less life condemning than unknwon quality over and over again. That kind of sets one up to up their dose not knowing for sure their use. Most don't weigh or measure, but just eyeball, their shots.

I agree with you there. There's a lot of promise in treating heroin addiction with heroin itself in Europe.. something to look into for sure. Sometimes subs/methadone are virtually useless or cause more harm than good for a minority of opiate addicts.

We're making progress on treating opiate addiction and understanding it as the epidemic grows more and more. We still haven't found something substantial enough to resolve the wide-spreading problem. But I'm so happy my country is finally putting effort into helping treat opiate addiction, rather than just saying "well junkies shouldn't have tried it to begin with." I think fent is the real issue. It's so commonplace within the US that addicts are even starting to dose themselves with pure fent these days because there's so much of it flowing around the US.

 

[Gormur]

Heroin used to be tolerated but now it isn't. I don't see any rhyme nor reason to that especially since doctors used to make so much more on those heroin prescription bottles they sold. I don't know if it was ever OTC, but who knows. I guess we can ask some of the members who were buying it in the 20s

 

[Ganjcat]

I agree with you there. There's a lot of promise in treating heroin addiction with heroin itself in Europe.. something to look into for sure. Sometimes subs/methadone are virtually useless or cause more harm than good for a minority of opiate addicts.

We're making progress on treating opiate addiction and understanding it as the epidemic grows more and more. We still haven't found something substantial enough to resolve the wide-spreading problem. But I'm so happy my country is finally putting effort into helping treat opiate addiction, rather than just saying "well junkies shouldn't have tried it to begin with." I think fent is the real issue. It's so commonplace within the US that addicts are even starting to dose themselves with pure fent these days because there's so much of it flowing around the US.

How can you tell if your one of those minorities?

 

[GetMeOutOfThisCRAP]

How can you tell if your one of those minorities?

If methadone is making you dysfunctional or Suboxone produces absolutely no change in sickness.

Some people say that Suboxone saved their life/the withdrawal is incredibly manageable and benign, while others oddly state the opposite and say that Suboxone withdrawal is hell on earth. I think that Suboxone/Subutex is a great development, but it's definitely not for everyone. You can't successfully fit all addicts into the same treatment plan in my opinion. In regards to methadone, many want to forego any opiate use at all and eliminate methadone from their daily lives... but can't because the withdrawal from methadone has proved to be not only long lasting but notoriously vicious as well. But if your entire life is being obliterated by heroin use and the financial dismay that comes with long term opiate addiction, I suppose one has no choice but to seek out treatment. It's also very hard to treat oxycodone abuse with Suboxone or methadone because depending on one's tolerance, treatment may be even more stronger than the actual oxycodone doses which just seems counterproductive. Many report that there is no opiate buzz or "high" from Suboxone, but it gets me higher than oxycodone ever could and in fact is heroin-like in euphoria. I can't be treated with Suboxone because of how recreational it is for me. Just some food for thought. There's no way with such long-lasting euphoria that I would not be abusing the subs...

 

[Ganjcat]

If methadone is making you dysfunctional or Suboxone produces absolutely no change in sickness.

Some people say that Suboxone saved their life/the withdrawal is incredibly manageable and benign, while others oddly state the opposite and say that Suboxone withdrawal is hell on earth. I think that Suboxone/Subutex is a great development, but it's definitely not for everyone. You can't successfully fit all addicts into the same treatment plan in my opinion. In regards to methadone, many want to forego any opiate use at all and eliminate methadone from their daily lives... but can't because the withdrawal from methadone has proved to be not only long lasting but notoriously vicious as well. But if your entire life is being obliterated by heroin use and the financial dismay that comes with long term opiate addiction, I suppose one has no choice but to seek out treatment. It's also very hard to treat oxycodone abuse with Suboxone or methadone because depending on one's tolerance, treatment may be even more stronger than the actual oxycodone doses which just seems counterproductive. Many report that there is no opiate buzz or "high" from Suboxone, but it gets me higher than oxycodone ever could and in fact is heroin-like in euphoria. I can't be treated with Suboxone because of how recreational it is for me. Just some food for thought. There's no way with such long-lasting euphoria that I would not be abusing the subs...

I see thanks for clearing that up.

so if you are one of these minorities your saying that in the UK their are other options in terms of strong medication?

 

[GetMeOutOfThisCRAP]

I see thanks for clearing that up.

so if you are one of these minorities your saying that in the UK their are other options in terms of strong medication?

I do not know the full extent of how wide-spread this unorthodox treatment is within Europe (or if it's currently being studied/actively legal outside of Europe), but I was shocked to see how successful it's been so far. It seems ironic... treating addicts with their own poison. But a good number of the patients actually swear by it and have seen a great deal of positive changes within their lives from the treatment itself. They simply wean addicts down with specifically measured doses of diamorphine (alternate name for heroin). If you're shooting up the substance 11+ times a day obviously it's going to have a detrimental effect on your entire life. But the treatment reduces the doses and the amount of times the addict uses a day gradually over time. So someone dosing heroin an unfathomable amount of times per day would eventually be down to very minimal doses on a regular basis. How long the treatment lasts or whether or not it is an extremely long-lasting approach is not something that I can not tell you.

The reason it's so effective is because in reality switching off one opiate to the next can be tricky to convert doses with accuracy. Many face withdrawal symptoms (sometimes quite severe) from getting off heroin to Suboxone/methadone and doctors are not perfect all the time in converting the doses correctly. So the theory is that I suppose one would have less withdrawal symptoms or negative reactions to tapering off heroin instead. Also, many addicts who are hooked on dope do not like the sudden absence of the euphoria because Suboxone does not produce any euphoria for a majority of addicts. This is necessary to realize. Suboxone patients do frequently cheat the Suboxone treatment and still dose heroin here and there to score a good high. Opiate addiction runs deep. The sad reality is that too many opiate addicts can not quit no matter how many attempts they strive for sobriety or what approach.. We need as much help as we can get within the recovery department and additional options that are more effective than the ones we already have. There's also another treatment called ibogaine (not as popular as other options but it does show promise). I'm talking out of my butt right now, but I think it's some kind of psychedelic-like substance that supposedly rearranges an addict's brain to forego opiate dependency. It's a very obscure and somewhat frowned upon procedure because it can actually be dangerous for a small amount of individuals (I do not know what demographic of people it can be dangerous for or why). It also has great results as much as it has proven to be totally useless for some folks.

 

[FrancisJablonski]

It has nothing to do with the difference in feeling between the two substances? I know H is stronger but some find it more euphoric (I made it a point to never dabble in meth or heroin), but I've had a good friend some time who made the switch and completely lost himself. He was totally functional on only pills beforehand

Never shot anything but ive insufflated plenty of dope, plenty of oral and insufflated meth and plenty of other drugs. But opiates that are so short acting like heroin and most stims once tolwrance is shot up high it just chasing something you may never successfuly obtain ever again. Drugs tbat only last for less than an hour most cases depend on ones tolerance are dangerous for people like me who feel the need to redose as soon as i fwel somethig i dont like. Im gettong bettsr at not redosing so oftenand gacking out/dying but short acting drugs really get me readt to say "fuck the plan of only having a minor single dose." But once i admitted my self destructive behavior it only went up from there for the most part i still fuck up here and there but not w that beast an ape pummeling that opiates are. Stim withdrawals arw weird psychological and vsry intenze depending on a few factors. Withdrawals from opiates are def more physical than mental all though it depenxs on a few factors again. Withdrawaling from polydrug addiction is a whole nother story lol. My point is the short acting drugs make some people absolutely never able to put it down. While others aong waste money on a short live high

 

[GetMeOutOfThisCRAP]

Never shot anything but ive insufflated plenty of dope, plenty of oral and insufflated meth and plenty of other drugs. But opiates that are so short acting like heroin and most stims once tolwrance is shot up high it just chasing something you may never successfuly obtain ever again. Drugs tbat only last for less than an hour most cases depend on ones tolerance are dangerous for people like me who feel the need to redose as soon as i fwel somethig i dont like. Im gettong bettsr at not redosing so oftenand gacking out/dying but short acting drugs really get me readt to say "fuck the plan of only having a minor single dose." But once i admitted my self destructive behavior it only went up from there for the most part i still fuck up here and there but not w that beast an ape pummeling that opiates are. Stim withdrawals arw weird psychological and vsry intenze depending on a few factors. Withdrawals from opiates are def more physical than mental all though it depenxs on a few factors again. Withdrawaling from polydrug addiction is a whole nother story lol. My point is the short acting drugs make some people absolutely never able to put it down. While others aong waste money on a short live high

The thing that's so unique about opiate addiction is how much your brain itself wants it. It's an addiction that is so beyond your consciousness. I'm sure that cocaine and meth or something have insane cravings, but addicts struggle freeing themselves from the opiate curse more than anything I've ever seen in my entire life. Hope you can one day kick the habit!

 

[FrancisJablonski]

The thing that's so unique about opiate addiction is how much your brain itself wants it. It's an addiction that is so beyond your consciousness. I'm sure that cocaine and meth or something have insane cravings, but addicts struggle freeing themselves from the opiate curse more than anything I've ever seen in my entire life. Hope you can one day kick the habit!

I been clean from opiates for a while since last year. But I screwed around lately and got myself hooked on meth after being told it was Molly. I knew it was meth as soon as I found myself staying up a week sleep dep as Fuck. And now its been a few benders that i just can't shake. Opiate withdrawal sucks ass. But the mental strain from meth is almost as bad as opiate withdrawal physical symotoms and mental combined. And the brain zaps are way worse on meth. I did way too much way to fast and now i feel hooked. I can take a day break or two here and there and have cut back usage to like a .2 oral for daytime and a .5 max insufflated thru a night

 

[GetMeOutOfThisCRAP]

I been clean from opiates for a while since last year. But I screwed around lately and got myself hooked on meth after being told it was Molly. I knew it was meth as soon as I found myself staying up a week sleep dep as Fuck. And now its been a few benders that i just can't shake. Opiate withdrawal sucks ass. But the mental strain from meth is almost as bad as opiate withdrawal physical symotoms and mental combined. And the brain zaps are way worse on meth. I did way too much way to fast and now i feel hooked. I can take a day break or two here and there and have cut back usage to like a .2 oral for daytime and a .5 max insufflated thru a night

I actually noticed this from seeing ppl complain about how awful the withdrawing symptoms are. I refuse to do meth but heavy stimulants have a comparable withdrawal misery to opiate abuse--ahedonia, hopelessless, severe fatigue, etc. In fact, I wonder if in most cases methamphetamine has long-lasting depression than opiate withdrawal even for minor meth users. Something like adderall/ritalin could help with the come down months and alleviate withdrawal a bit. Stims are a totally different beast to kick though and have different positive effects than opiates that's for sure. The care-free euphoria and "I love life" effects of meth make people think that it's really not the drug the media makes it out to be. It isn't, but it's still one of the strongest drugs/hedonistic on the planet lol. Good luck my dood. Some people find it harder to kick than heroin.

 

[Hezman94]

Because it's stronger and most people smoke or inject straight to brain think smoking is faster but less biiafsbility

 

[Hezman94]

I plugged a bag of gear were best stuff felt like forty mg oxy as I bought it got pins out and thort wtf I didn't even really want it expected it to do nothing did have a nice buzz but that's it. The gear was really dark looks like tar but it's not sticky it's powder.
But it might of been equivalent to more as I've bought oxy today and needed more than usual

 

[kokaino]

Generally speaking , the more rapid the increase in the plasma level following ingestion, the greater the intoxicating effect and the more open to abuse the drug is. The speed of onset of action of a particular drug correlates well with the ‘popularity’ of that drug for abuse. This is established fact (Source). A British (Source) and a separate Australian (Source) both found that temazepam is more rapidly absorbed and oxazepam is more slowly absorbed than most other benzodiazepines, suggesting a higher abuse liability.

A 1985 study found that triazolam and temazepam maintained higher rates of self-injection in both human and animal subjects compared to a variety of other benzodiazepines (other examined: diazepam, lorazepam, oxazepam, flurazepam, alprazolam, chlordiazepoxide, clonazepam, nitrazepam, flunitrazepam, bromazepam, and clorazepate) (https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/2858078)

 

[Zippy H]

I don't know about one being more addictive than another, just that Oxy withdrawals are the worst for me.