Why do some people on Psychedelics think they can fly?

[Foreigner]

I think in the case of LSD, it reveals (or pseudo-reveals) the fabric of reality, to such an extent that you may be tempted to feel like you've discovered the ultimate truth. It would just be one step beyond that to think you have some control over it, such as the ability to fly. It can seem so real. I mean, look at how many psychedelic users talk like they are messiahs. I'm not saying there's no truth to be discovered in psychs but it has to be weighed in proportion with empiricism.

If I were on LSD and suspected I could fly, I would know to do some ground level experiments first. For someone to abandon all reason and just go straight to the jumping off a building part... there has to be deep confusion happening.

 

[Kaleida]

I mulled this over, last night, on a good glass of whisky. I have a very personal belief I was able to connect to our conversation here. I had also recently read a book by Eckhard Tolle. Very confusing and a bit of a struggle to get through, not because it's intellectually daunting, but because the book isn't really written like a book. It's more of a 300 page monologue with little structure. Nevertheless, an amusing read.

That book helped me complete a form or belief I had been toying with for a while. Don't take this too seriously, I'm getting a little floaty here
The essence is that we exist as our "ego" and as a "higher existence". The former is the more earthly, material, the latter the more spiritual.

The ego is the necessary evil, the part of us that troubles us with our weaknesses, our insecurities, our fears, but at the same time, the vehicle we need to find our place on this world. The ego wants, the ego is angered, saddened, disappointed and quelled with quick fixes.

The higher existence is the part of us that is inherently good, wholesome, loving. It's what we need to find ourselves, that steers us on the right path. It's what dreams, warms. It's where we know right from wrong, it's what we cling to if our ego's have been shattered or destroyed through grief or loss.

The ego can serve as a butler of sorts, to the higher existence, adding more qualities, traits or talents to the higher existence. When our physical body dies, the ego is destroyed and the higher existence remains. I can't really call it a soul, because I'd personally attach religious themes to it.
What happens next, after death, I have no idea of, naturally. But I'd like to believe that we gather all the good things we've done in our lives and move on to a next life, with more qualities to ourselves, than before.

Historical figures like Jesus, Mohammed, the Dalai Lama, maybe even Tesla, were people who were able to leave their ego's behind and were operating on their higher existences. "Enlightened", if you will, if you're able to detach the religious weight.

On a trip, depending on the dosage, I believe an ego death means we are "surrendered" or remain with our higher existence. Something we simply cannot fathom, still in our earthly shells. Maybe it's like pressing left, left, right right, up down, up down, a, b, etc. and activating a cheat mode to achieve god mode

People that are comfortable with themselves and have some sort of conscious or subconscious idea of their higher existence, might experience ego death or the impending onset of it, as something liberating, enlightening, interesting, intriguing, titillating, etc. People that are not, might get very nihilistic. It might be terrifying or at the very least confusing. Maybe, at that point, is when people start having a bad trip. Maybe it's the ego, clawing for existence.

Hmpf, something I'm definitely taking into the trip, next time. Although I'm pretty sure I'll need to have a undisturbed solo trip to fully think this through.

Thank you for sharing this. I have had many thoughts along these lines as well over the years, and I can definitely approximate your views on to mine. I'll share some thoughts that I've had too....

First, I think I should explain my perspective a little bit.... In regards to what happens after death, I tend to believe that nothing ever happening again after this ends does not seem like the most likely scenario, but I also don't expect what happens next to necessarily retain anything whatsoever from this. It's certainly a nice thought and it would be quite interesting if it does... but given that it may not and I'll never know until it happens, I have decided to structure my beliefs around the idea that it won't and that I should just focus on getting the most out of what I have now.

Perhaps this is why lately I have actually started to have a much greater focus on using the ego as a tool than leaving it behind.... I used to have ego death as a main focus in my trips for some time, I was fascinated with the states of mystical understandings and infinite bliss. It actually doesn't come easily to me on psychedelics.... On dissociatives it comes very easily, and even more so on salvia, but after many years of using psychedelics and sometimes in pretty high doses it has still only truly happened to me maybe a handful of times at most, and not for more than a couple seconds each time. It is a mind-blowing experience whenever it happens on anything, but after experiencing it so many times I still couldn't help but notice that those moments of ego death were just incomprehensible states of ecstasy, but the rest of the trip around them, where my ego might actually be even running stronger by being amplified from the drug just like everything else, is where I could use the psychedelic state to work with my mind on a conscious level and work directly on issues in my life.

Since, as you say, the ego is the vehicle that we need to find our place in this world, I find it to be the ultimate therapeutic tool.... It does unleash the weaknesses and the insecurities and the fears, but those are things that are always there and need to be addressed, and since life is always changing there's always new material to bring to the table (as long as you actually let life happen in between your trips anyway). On the other hand, it does want, and it is saddened, and it is disappointed, and all of these emotions and more can be explored so much more deeply when on psychedelics.... Since as I've told you I also use psychedelics as my choice drugs for having fun and I use them relatively often, I also greatly enjoy using trips to explore hedonistic desires on an earthly level as well and finding new layers of pleasure that I didn't even know were within me. I even find that spending more time learning to work with the psychedelic state with my mind intact allows me to influence it more like I do my imagination while sober, and this allows me to connect more with my ideas as my thoughts blend into the experience and create all kinds of spontaneous connections and realizations that can then be empathized with on a nearly dream-like level.

I suppose I just feel now that an escape from the ego is something that can be deeply satisfying and allows you to glimpse some of the unfathomable aspects of consciousness, but it is not really what has helped my life the most about using psychedelics, and since I don't get it easily on them anyway it just doesn't even really occur to me to seek it out on them anymore. Generally, I now assume that they only come when they have a specific lesson to teach that only they can do... such as resolving a fear of death or loss of control. However, I have already had quite a few of these experiences and don't really have much fear in those ways anymore at least that I encounter under typical tripping parameters, so maybe that's why my trips usually just take a different direction these days as well. Even on tryptamines I don't seem likely to experience much ego loss, instead going more towards exploring my subconscious through visions or out-of-body experiences, but I'm normally fairly lucid for it even if the sensory overload is making it hard to get through full thoughts.

In the end, I guess I just really eventually began to feel that the ego is not something to be left behind but to be nourished. It's important to not let it control you, but rather for you to control it. But it is not an obstacle, but a precious tool which natural selection has carved for us over the entire course of the history of biological life.... One that allows us to mold our primal selves into the very best beings they can be. As you say, what is left behind without our egos is something of love, and that is good too, but I feel that what that truly is is just the workings of human consciousness being exposed, a powerful instance of that driving force which allows us to desire these positive feelings in the first place. I believe as well that it is for this reason that experiencing that can be such a powerful reminder of how we should be orienting our lives, but I also think that such an experience simply by its immense value and detached nature excludes the flexibility of the psychedelic experience as a whole, thereby functioning not so much as a smaller realm of possibilities within it but just one possible reaction brought about by it. And for that reason, the more I experience it I feel the better I understand it, and I have less of a need to experience it again. By contrast, the conscious experience guided by the ego is as ever-changing as life itself.

So, really what I feel is just that while the ego death can be an enlightening experience, it is only one of many that can come along with an altered state. And I do believe that there are many throughout history who may have reached this "enlightened" state, but not necessarily through just ego death alone.... The human mind has all sorts of deep, vast secrets to be unlocked and there are all kinds of ways to bring them out. Personally I think that seeking out-of-body and dream-like experiences is my favorite way just because of the amount of detail that your mind fills in even on a conscious level, it's unbelievable how incredibly detailed and lucid some visions and delusions can be.

Anyway, those are my thoughts. I'm looking forward to what you have to say after you have that trip.

 

[Dresden]

On moderate doses, most psychedelic users know they can't fly. Trouble arises when a freak out amount of psychedelic (especially LSD) has been taken, the user completely loses their shit and starts freaking out, strips off their clothes, and runs for the nearest exit which is hopefully not a high rise balcony.

 

[Tweak Thizz]

Wow, Thank you guys so much for all the amazing replies. I've seriously learned so much from reading this thread.

 

[LostAtomsk]

Thank you for sharing this. I have had many thoughts along these lines as well over the years, and I can definitely approximate your views on to mine. I'll share some thoughts that I've had too....

First, I think I should explain my perspective a little bit.... In regards to what happens after death, I tend to believe that nothing ever happening again after this ends does not seem like the most likely scenario, but I also don't expect what happens next to necessarily retain anything whatsoever from this. It's certainly a nice thought and it would be quite interesting if it does... but given that it may not and I'll never know until it happens, I have decided to structure my beliefs around the idea that it won't and that I should just focus on getting the most out of what I have now.

Perhaps this is why lately I have actually started to have a much greater focus on using the ego as a tool than leaving it behind.... I used to have ego death as a main focus in my trips for some time, I was fascinated with the states of mystical understandings and infinite bliss. It actually doesn't come easily to me on psychedelics.... On dissociatives it comes very easily, and even more so on salvia, but after many years of using psychedelics and sometimes in pretty high doses it has still only truly happened to me maybe a handful of times at most, and not for more than a couple seconds each time. It is a mind-blowing experience whenever it happens on anything, but after experiencing it so many times I still couldn't help but notice that those moments of ego death were just incomprehensible states of ecstasy, but the rest of the trip around them, where my ego might actually be even running stronger by being amplified from the drug just like everything else, is where I could use the psychedelic state to work with my mind on a conscious level and work directly on issues in my life.

Since, as you say, the ego is the vehicle that we need to find our place in this world, I find it to be the ultimate therapeutic tool.... It does unleash the weaknesses and the insecurities and the fears, but those are things that are always there and need to be addressed, and since life is always changing there's always new material to bring to the table (as long as you actually let life happen in between your trips anyway). On the other hand, it does want, and it is saddened, and it is disappointed, and all of these emotions and more can be explored so much more deeply when on psychedelics.... Since as I've told you I also use psychedelics as my choice drugs for having fun and I use them relatively often, I also greatly enjoy using trips to explore hedonistic desires on an earthly level as well and finding new layers of pleasure that I didn't even know were within me. I even find that spending more time learning to work with the psychedelic state with my mind intact allows me to influence it more like I do my imagination while sober, and this allows me to connect more with my ideas as my thoughts blend into the experience and create all kinds of spontaneous connections and realizations that can then be empathized with on a nearly dream-like level.

I suppose I just feel now that an escape from the ego is something that can be deeply satisfying and allows you to glimpse some of the unfathomable aspects of consciousness, but it is not really what has helped my life the most about using psychedelics, and since I don't get it easily on them anyway it just doesn't even really occur to me to seek it out on them anymore. Generally, I now assume that they only come when they have a specific lesson to teach that only they can do... such as resolving a fear of death or loss of control. However, I have already had quite a few of these experiences and don't really have much fear in those ways anymore at least that I encounter under typical tripping parameters, so maybe that's why my trips usually just take a different direction these days as well. Even on tryptamines I don't seem likely to experience much ego loss, instead going more towards exploring my subconscious through visions or out-of-body experiences, but I'm normally fairly lucid for it even if the sensory overload is making it hard to get through full thoughts.

In the end, I guess I just really eventually began to feel that the ego is not something to be left behind but to be nourished. It's important to not let it control you, but rather for you to control it. But it is not an obstacle, but a precious tool which natural selection has carved for us over the entire course of the history of biological life.... One that allows us to mold our primal selves into the very best beings they can be. As you say, what is left behind without our egos is something of love, and that is good too, but I feel that what that truly is is just the workings of human consciousness being exposed, a powerful instance of that driving force which allows us to desire these positive feelings in the first place. I believe as well that it is for this reason that experiencing that can be such a powerful reminder of how we should be orienting our lives, but I also think that such an experience simply by its immense value and detached nature excludes the flexibility of the psychedelic experience as a whole, thereby functioning not so much as a smaller realm of possibilities within it but just one possible reaction brought about by it. And for that reason, the more I experience it I feel the better I understand it, and I have less of a need to experience it again. By contrast, the conscious experience guided by the ego is as ever-changing as life itself.

So, really what I feel is just that while the ego death can be an enlightening experience, it is only one of many that can come along with an altered state. And I do believe that there are many throughout history who may have reached this "enlightened" state, but not necessarily through just ego death alone.... The human mind has all sorts of deep, vast secrets to be unlocked and there are all kinds of ways to bring them out. Personally I think that seeking out-of-body and dream-like experiences is my favorite way just because of the amount of detail that your mind fills in even on a conscious level, it's unbelievable how incredibly detailed and lucid some visions and delusions can be.

Anyway, those are my thoughts. I'm looking forward to what you have to say after you have that trip.

Our perspectives are very much in line indeed. I don't remember exactly when I started "believing" this, it just sort of formed over time. Being interested and practicing Iaido has added a Taoist/Za-zen influence to the mix which definitely helped.

I had my trip last weekend and it started out great... Until the neighbors threatened with calling the cops, because the music was too loud. The appartment we were in, was transformed into a pretty dank lair with 4 geeklets high out of their minds, positively covered in glowsticks, light show gloves, plasma orbs, N2O shells and the like. So we had to dim everything down significantly, which was a buzzkill. Kind of ruined the experience, although we kept the spirits high.

At one point, I was handed two N2O filled balloons, whilst lying down comfortably and I inhaled one slowly, exhaled slowly and inhaled the second. At that point, I experienced something I had only felt doing Salvia. Concept of reality was shattered. I had a feint idea of who I was, but no idea where I was. I think this lasted for about a minute and my vision felt... deconstructed. I still can't quite explain the experience, but I think I was brought somewhere near an ego-death. I've never experienced one, so I can't say for sure, but it was interesting, looking back on it.

When I slowly synched back into reality, I realized I could only have a profound trip by doing one solo. There's waaaaay too much going on, during our usual trips, to breaking through a next level of sorts. We serve as each other's anchor points, which requires a certain level of control.

I've been reserving free weekends for collective trips, I think I'm gonna sit one out and plan a solo trip asap. I've also somewhat improved my diet/timing/etc for the best trip intensity, length and most comfortable body load, so I can feel comfortable doing a solo trip.

Long story short: to be continued

 

[Kaleida]

Tweak Thizz, glad to help out.

LostAtomsk, that's a bummer about your neighbors. It's too bad you had to bring some things down, but I'm glad you guys still kept it positive in the end. People are such party poopers....

That's interesting about your experience with the nitrous oxide. It does sound like you were very close.... I actually consider nitrous oxide to be the ultimate tool for these kinds of things, and in fact it's part of why I stopped feeling the need to chase ego death with psychedelics. It took the uncertainty out of the game.... With nitrous, it's all just about the right dose and setting for me, and then I'm set.... It's not so much a "Will I or won't I?" as an "Oh, I suppose I'll have an ego death right now." Really, it's just about getting past that threshold. There comes a point on it where before that it's always just going to be a dissociative body and mind high and that's it, but beyond it you start to touch upon infinity and impossibilities. It's a beautiful experience, though it honestly brings many more questions than answers.... I do agree though that it is hard to reach if there are other things going on to pay attention to, as usually my trip just becomes about how my processing of those things is distorted. Doing it while meditating either in silence or with emotional music on is really what takes me out the furthest.

It's funny that you compare it to salvia, because I consider the states of ego death produced by nitrous and salvia to be nearly identical. Though, I eventually came to see salvia as something more unique than that, and I try to shoot below that point now because I find it's more worthwhile to use my material that way. It does deconstruct reality quite heavily but in what I think are personally more interesting ways than ego loss....

Well, it sounds like you're definitely going to hit that point on your next trip. I'm curious what you will think about it after the fact.

 

[LostAtomsk]

Tweak Thizz, glad to help out.

LostAtomsk, that's a bummer about your neighbors. It's too bad you had to bring some things down, but I'm glad you guys still kept it positive in the end. People are such party poopers....

That's interesting about your experience with the nitrous oxide. It does sound like you were very close.... I actually consider nitrous oxide to be the ultimate tool for these kinds of things, and in fact it's part of why I stopped feeling the need to chase ego death with psychedelics. It took the uncertainty out of the game.... With nitrous, it's all just about the right dose and setting for me, and then I'm set.... It's not so much a "Will I or won't I?" as an "Oh, I suppose I'll have an ego death right now." Really, it's just about getting past that threshold. There comes a point on it where before that it's always just going to be a dissociative body and mind high and that's it, but beyond it you start to touch upon infinity and impossibilities. It's a beautiful experience, though it honestly brings many more questions than answers.... I do agree though that it is hard to reach if there are other things going on to pay attention to, as usually my trip just becomes about how my processing of those things is distorted. Doing it while meditating either in silence or with emotional music on is really what takes me out the furthest.

It's funny that you compare it to salvia, because I consider the states of ego death produced by nitrous and salvia to be nearly identical. Though, I eventually came to see salvia as something more unique than that, and I try to shoot below that point now because I find it's more worthwhile to use my material that way. It does deconstruct reality quite heavily but in what I think are personally more interesting ways than ego loss....

Well, it sounds like you're definitely going to hit that point on your next trip. I'm curious what you will think about it after the fact.

One "dose" of N2O is very interesting, especially on intense music, because it feels like you're slipping in between the ripples of time and the resonance of sound. To me, it feels like time just barely didn't stop. The headspace is indescribable.
Two "doses" of N2O was entirely different and felt like a deconstruction of reality. As if reality is a cube made out of different parts that are expanded before your eyes. That moment where reality is pulled away from you sensory input, felt a lot like Salvia. I can say now that I progressed into N2O/Salvia, looking back on it, but at the time itself, I was lost in space and time

Out of curiosity, how do you use N2O? We got ourselves and ample supply of cartridges, balloons and a few crackers, but the setup wasn't ideal. Every balloon fitted 75% of a cartridge, leaving 25% that didn't have much effect or could be redosed. We're not sure if the fault lies with the cracker or the balloons...

I think I'll solo on 300 ùg, with 200 ùg is the highest dose I have tried. I'm getting impatient, just can't find the time

 

[Kaleida]

What kinds of balloons are you using? Punch balloons are great in my experience.

These things definitely hold up to at least eight cartridges, which is enough to blast me into oblivion.

I also use a dispenser, like this....

I greatly prefer this to just a cracker, mine holds at least four cartridges at a time as well.

But yes, nitrous can be a very profound experience indeed, especially when combined with psychedelics. My favorite part about it is at the end when I realize that the trip has both started and ended without me even noticing.... I usually burst out laughing at the bizarreness of it all.

You will certainly have the opportunity to get very far out with a 300 mcg solo trip and nitrous.... No need to be impatient, there's plenty of time to explore! When you're lost in your own mind it will feel like eons anyway. The part of the trip that takes place in a balloon always feels nearly eternal to me.

 

[LostAtomsk]

What kinds of balloons are you using? Punch balloons are great in my experience.

Regular balloons, but they're not great. I had never heard of punch balloons, but we're definitely going to try that. Should sole our problem of too small a balloon.

These things definitely hold up to at least eight cartridges, which is enough to blast me into oblivion.

I also use a dispenser, like this....

I greatly prefer this to just a cracker, mine holds at least four cartridges at a time as well.

We've ordered one of those, a bigger on. Should solve our problem of the cracker not having enough pressure left to fill a balloon. Thanks for the advice!

But yes, nitrous can be a very profound experience indeed, especially when combined with psychedelics. My favorite part about it is at the end when I realize that the trip has both started and ended without me even noticing.... I usually burst out laughing at the bizarreness of it all.

You will certainly have the opportunity to get very far out with a 300 mcg solo trip and nitrous.... No need to be impatient, there's plenty of time to explore! When you're lost in your own mind it will feel like eons anyway. The part of the trip that takes place in a balloon always feels nearly eternal to me.

I probably won't have any nitrous, when I'm by myself. I think I'll just go for the natural experience Lying down, with my headphones and an assorted playlist. Knowing me, I'd probably take an eye out, trying to get a N2O shell into a cracker, or something

 

[Kaleida]

Regular balloons, but they're not great. I had never heard of punch balloons, but we're definitely going to try that. Should sole our problem of too small a balloon.

...

We've ordered one of those, a bigger on. Should solve our problem of the cracker not having enough pressure left to fill a balloon. Thanks for the advice!

No problem! You should definitely be all set with those then, I'm sure you'll be blown away by the difference.

I probably won't have any nitrous, when I'm by myself. I think I'll just go for the natural experience Lying down, with my headphones and an assorted playlist. Knowing me, I'd probably take an eye out, trying to get a N2O shell into a cracker, or something

Well, that is a perfectly fine experience as well. And it is definitely good to know that you'll be capable of those things in such a state before trying, haha. I am sure you will be fine without it, especially with that dose... and in that setting, I know you will be pushing through to levels you haven't reached before anyway!