Health Why do I feel full-body unease/restlessness with mushrooms but not with LSD?

[ninjapirateroberts]

As the title says, I took 2.5 grams of mushrooms yesterday (in chocolate form), but at about T+0:45, I started feeling full-body restlessness, so I decided to lay on the bed. At T+1:20, the effects began to kick in, but at the same time, I felt restlessness throughout my body; I felt uneasy lying down, sitting up (loss of coordination), nausea. I barely felt "visual effects." It made me very drowsy, and I was "slipping" into a sleep-like state, but I forced myself to stay awake.

I never felt whole-body restlessness, unease, or drowsiness with LSD. I didn't find the need to keep myself awake when I'm on LSD, but it's totally the opposite with mushrooms. At T+2:30, I felt like I needed to scream like crazy (thankfully, I didn't), but I was doing all sorts of weird stretches to relieve my restlessness. Finally, at T+3:40, I figured I'd rather take alprazolam 1mg to free myself from the mental and physical restlessness (at this point, I also had a headache); at T+4:10, alprazolam kicked in, and I could finally lay down in peace.

I regret taking the mushrooms. I found LSD to be more "stimulating" (in terms of conceptual thinking, introspection, music appreciation, and visual effects) and definitely no nausea, and wanting to make myself awake (I never felt drowsy with LSD).

At T+6:00, the mental and physical restlessness was finally gone, and I was back to the sober state. I took another alprazolam 1mg with melatonin 10mg and slept for like 13-14 hours, and woke up like a newborn (I took my 40mg Vyvanse, and I feel so much fresh when writing this).

I figured I liked LSD a lot more than mushrooms. The whole time I was thinking I should have taken LSD.

Has anyone ever felt physical and mental restlessness, drowsiness and decreased "stimulation," and other effects I described above with mushrooms? Do you "like" LSD more than mushrooms for these reasons? (or vice versa?).

 

[foodcrisis]

what you are describing with shrooms is basically what i get from mushrooms except i'll usually get some open eyed visuals and a lot of closed eye visuals so that gives me some insentive to trip. i personally like any type of acid more than shrooms to be honest. with acid i feel 100% healthy, with shrooms i usually feel a little under the weather, tired and weird... i usually combat that with weed, which apparently i should write that this doesn't agree with some people and they have bad trips some one pointed that out to me not to recommend weed to anyone cause it can cause anxiety... but if i smoke a little on shrooms it usually picks me up and makes the trip managable, it definitely gives a bit more to the visuals as well.

i actually enjoyed shrooms a lot more until i started using acid a lot. the acid high is just a lot better, it lasts longer and it can be a lot more visual... shrooms are cool cause they are so easy to grow though. they grow all around the world too, so it'd be almost impossible for the world to try to ban them. lol.

 

[ninjapirateroberts]

what you are describing with shrooms is basically what i get from mushrooms except i'll usually get some open eyed visuals and a lot of closed eye visuals so that gives me some insentive to trip. i personally like any type of acid more than shrooms to be honest. with acid i feel 100% healthy, with shrooms i usually feel a little under the weather, tired and weird... i usually combat that with weed, which apparently i should write that this doesn't agree with some people and they have bad trips some one pointed that out to me not to recommend weed to anyone cause it can cause anxiety... but if i smoke a little on shrooms it usually picks me up and makes the trip managable, it definitely gives a bit more to the visuals as well.

i actually enjoyed shrooms a lot more until i started using acid a lot. the acid high is just a lot better, it lasts longer and it can be a lot more visual... shrooms are cool cause they are so easy to grow though. they grow all around the world too, so it'd be almost impossible for the world to try to ban them. lol.

Mushrooms literally make me feel "sick," with all the physical and mental restlessness that comes with it. I also don't like the fact it makes me drowsy; if I wanted to feel drowsy, I'd rather take benzos than psychedelics. Because when I "slip" into a sleep-like state, I lose the ability to creative thinking, introspection, etc., and I can barely "focus" on any concept.

Tripping on LSD makes me more "creative" (in all aspects, especially introspection, creative thinking, and music appreciation). Mushrooms wanted to make me feel asleep, and I literally felt sick and wanted to scream.

LSD's effects are more mental than physical, and it doesn't give me heavy restlessness (not even close).

 

[ninjapirateroberts]

I was also experiencing "brain zaps" when I was slipping into a sleep-like state while on mushrooms.

Mentally I would feel like I was entering into a deep-sleep-like state, but when I was there, I would get a feeling of electric shock on my body (I literally felt like I touched some electricity or something was electrocuting my brain). It usually happens just for a split second to make me "awake."

Maybe that is my brain's way of saying "hey, you are not asleep, so stay awake," i.e., the evolutionary behavior of our body to keep us awake to stay safe from predators by giving us "electric shocks." I don't know, I'm just speculating this out of thin air.

 

[foodcrisis]

if you are getting electrical shocks it could be because you are breathing incorrectly. if you said you were doing weird stretches you could've been bothering your central nervous system. that and breathing differently can cause those shocks... i have a back injury from getting hit by a car and i get a ton of electrical shocks if i move the wrong way or lift something too heavy. i actually had to change the way that i breathe to avoid getting shocks. it actually helped with my anxiety a bit. i'm a lot more relaxed now after having to learn to fight those pins... i've heard a lot of people that played hockey and football get those electrical shocks.

 

[DeathIndustrial88]

I literally have had this same experience recently.
Did shrooms recently (first time in 20 years) & felt really weird, like physically weird. The "tingling" in my body felt more reminiscent of convulsions than anything super pleasurable. I felt really confused & choppy consciously. I found it less enjoyable than what I remembered as a teenager. I did get visuals but the feeling of "i've been poisoned or something very wrong is happening" was too overwhelming to enjoy the shrooms much.

But trying acid after that, it was like night and day. No convulsions, no nausea, no feelings of impending doom or suspense. Also acid felt much more stimulating & even made me horny (was my first time & wasn't expecting that). Acid felt so much cleaner, although it did get intense at times. But I completely hands down prefer acid over shrooms because of this.

I assumed the other meds in my system made the shrooms shittier (and maybe they did) but they didn't make acid any shittier or more dangerous, so I dunno.
I'm betting acid has some dopaminergic qualities that shrooms don't. And I'm betting shrooms probably hit various other receptors or something that cause all the unwanted side effects. I know the chitin in shrooms can cause some of the nausea. Making tea can help with this. But maybe some one with better knowledge of their pharmacology can chime in & specify the differences. I'm hoping so, cause I'm curious to know myself!

 

[ninjapirateroberts]

if you are getting electrical shocks it could be because you are breathing incorrectly. if you said you were doing weird stretches you could've been bothering your central nervous system. that and breathing differently can cause those shocks... i have a back injury from getting hit by a car and i get a ton of electrical shocks if i move the wrong way or lift something too heavy. i actually had to change the way that i breathe to avoid getting shocks. it actually helped with my anxiety a bit. i'm a lot more relaxed now after having to learn to fight those pins... i've heard a lot of people that played hockey and football get those electrical shocks.

Actually, when I was on mushrooms and entering this deep-sleep-like state, I felt like I "forgot to breath" and that I was not breathing and holding my breath (even though I physically was breathing). So I "force breath," thinking that I'm holding my breath or I forgot to breathe (I know my body wouldn't just let me "forget" to breathe).

The restlessness is like, I can't lay down, I can't sit down, I can't do anything, and on top of that, I feel nausea. I felt like I'm in a breakdown (both mental and physical). So making those weird stretches of my hands, legs, etc., gave me some "ease" to that restlessness. I hate that experience.

 

[Foreigner]

I think it's because magic mushrooms are basically a toxin and the body reacts with some degree of "survival" mechanism to process or expel the toxin. Some of that is surely neuroreceptor-mediated too. Whereas LSD's effects are purely neuroreceptor-mediated. Restlessness is usually one of the early signs of poisoning, not that magic mushrooms are a "poison"... I just mean that the body tends to respond with restlessness to plant toxins.

I find the body load of mushrooms intense even at moderate doses, whereas with LSD I have to take heavy doses to feel that.

The other thing I'm recalling - and I'm probably going to word this wrong because I read it a long time ago - is that psilocybin temporarily decreases blood flow to certain parts of the brain. Not enough to cause genuine hypoxia but enough to cause certain novel effects, including prompting the brain to release NGF to grow and preserve neurons. When I get high on mushrooms I always feel like I can't fully get oxygen but I usually just have to remind myself that I'm OK because my body is still clearly alive. And I think that's because the deoxygenation effect is only in certain brain areas but not the whole brain.

 

[ninjapirateroberts]

To be more specific, by stretches, I mean I would try to intertwine and twist my hands together. I'd stick my fingers into my mouth and try to stretch my mouth, I'd punch my jaw, face, chest, and arm while lying down in bed, I'd have urges to scream loud to "let go," I'd crawl into a baby like position, and I'd try to stretch my hands and legs outward as much as I can.

All of these "weird stretches" somehow eased the physical and mental restlessness a little bit. I never felt anything like this on LSD.

 

[ninjapirateroberts]

The other thing I'm recalling - and I'm probably going to word this wrong because I read it a long time ago - is that psilocybin temporarily decreases blood flow to certain parts of the brain.

I think you are referring to reduced blood flow to the posterior cingulate cortex and prefrontal cortex?

Wikipedia article on default mode network states:
"Psychedelic drugs – Reduced blood flow to the PCC and mPFC was observed under the administration of psilocybin. These two areas are considered to be the main nodes of the DMN. One study on the effects of LSD demonstrated that the drug desynchronizes brain activity within the DMN; the activity of the brain regions that constitute the DMN becomes less correlated."

 

[ninjapirateroberts]

I think it's because magic mushrooms are basically a toxin and the body reacts with some degree of "survival" mechanism to process or expel the toxin. Some of that is surely neuroreceptor-mediated too. Whereas LSD's effects are purely neuroreceptor-mediated. Restlessness is usually one of the early signs of poisoning, not that magic mushrooms are a "poison"... I just mean that the body tends to respond with restlessness to plant toxins.

Yeah, I totally agree with this.

 

[Snafu in the Void]

@ninjapirateroberts is this your first mushroom/tryptamine experience?

I have a massive preference for LSD because it generally avoids experiences like this.

But the way you describe it sounds more like a bad drug interaction.

Shrooms have way more body load, uncomfortable sensation and freak out potential. But you almost describe it like akathisia, serotonin/dopamine imbalance.

Are you on any medication? Particularly Antidepressants or antipsychotics?

 

[ninjapirateroberts]

@ninjapirateroberts is this your first mushroom/tryptamine experience?

I have a massive preference for LSD because it generally avoids experiences like this.

But the way you describe it sounds more like a bad drug interaction.

Shrooms have way more body load, uncomfortable sensation and freak out potential. But you almost describe it like akathisia, serotonin/dopamine imbalance.

Are you on any medication? Particularly Antidepressants or antipsychotics?

This is my 4th mushroom experience.

1st time, 1.3 grams. (raw dried mushroom)
2nd time, 3 grams. (psilocybin mushroom chocolate)
3rd time, 3 grams. (psilocybin mushroom chocolate)
4th time, 2.5 grams. (psilocybin mushroom chocolate)

I'm not on any antidepressants and antipsychotics. I am on stimulants (Vyvanse 40mg) that I take 5 days a week for ADHD (but I didn't take the Vyvanse dose yesterday when doing mushrooms). The only other medication I'm on is alprazolam 0.5mg - 1mg that I sparingly take for sleep (or sometimes when I'm very stressed).

The 2nd and 3rd time, I gave in and fell asleep during the trip itself.

 

[Snafu in the Void]

I find it interesting you can sleep.

Even if I were to take 2mg of alprazolam with zero benzo tolerance, it would be impossible for me to sleep on any dose of mushrooms for a minimum of 6hr.

I often pretend like I'm asleep on shrooms, meaning I get comfortable, lay motionless with eyes closed... but the idea, feeling, or concept of sleep is 1000 miles away and never crosses my mind.

 

[Phobos]

I think it's because magic mushrooms are basically a toxin and the body reacts with some degree of "survival" mechanism to process or expel the toxin. Some of that is surely neuroreceptor-mediated too. Whereas LSD's effects are purely neuroreceptor-mediated. Restlessness is usually one of the early signs of poisoning, not that magic mushrooms are a "poison"... I just mean that the body tends to respond with restlessness to plant toxins.

I find the body load of mushrooms intense even at moderate doses, whereas with LSD I have to take heavy doses to feel that.

The other thing I'm recalling - and I'm probably going to word this wrong because I read it a long time ago - is that psilocybin temporarily decreases blood flow to certain parts of the brain. Not enough to cause genuine hypoxia but enough to cause certain novel effects, including prompting the brain to release NGF to grow and preserve neurons. When I get high on mushrooms I always feel like I can't fully get oxygen but I usually just have to remind myself that I'm OK because my body is still clearly alive. And I think that's because the deoxygenation effect is only in certain brain areas but not the whole brain.

The psychoactives in Shrooms are not toxins, one is Psilocin or 4-hydroxy DMT, a substituted tryptamine ie an analogue of DMT and the other one is Psilocybin, which is quickly metabolised into Psilocin upon ingestion.
Our @ninjapirateroberts might not be able to have a smooth ride with shrooms because his body is not playing along for some reason, or because his digestive tract doesn't like the pulp of the shrooms or some sort of contaminant that's on them and he's having a reaction that's messing up the trip.

@ninjapirateroberts, since the mushrooms were in chocolate form, you were not able to visually check them, if you want to try them again you could get just the shrooms, and then make a tea out of them, so that your body doesn't have to digest any solids and you're ruling out one of the possible issues.
If you're using stims daily that might also affect the trip, if in any way possible take a few days break before the next shroom trip.

 

[swilow]

I've had a heavy almost feverish feeling from mushrooms that I've not had from say 4-Aco-DMT or 4-Ho-MET, or at least not to the same extent. It can be very unpleasant which is why I probably won't use mushrooms again, and will stick with analogues. Perhaps there are some peripherally active alkaloids in the fungus? That said, I've had uncomfortable restlessness from lysergamides too, but that was usually cured by walking or dancing or a shower.

 

[afk]

To be more specific, by stretches, I mean I would try to intertwine and twist my hands together. I'd stick my fingers into my mouth and try to stretch my mouth, I'd punch my jaw, face, chest, and arm while lying down in bed, I'd have urges to scream loud to "let go," I'd crawl into a baby like position, and I'd try to stretch my hands and legs outward as much as I can.

All of these "weird stretches" somehow eased the physical and mental restlessness a little bit. I never felt anything like this LSD.

I know what you’re talking about. I think tryptamines in general do this to me. On shrooms it feels really satisfying to move my body in weird ways and contort myself and shit. The amount of trips I’ve gotten naked in bed and convulsed around like a worm…. Fuck shrooms are weird, it’s why I only really take them alone. Too much potential for weirdness. LSD doesn’t do this to me at all. I don’t mind the weirdness but you need to be aware of it’s potential.

 

[Foreigner]

I think you are referring to reduced blood flow to the posterior cingulate cortex and prefrontal cortex?

Wikipedia article on default mode network states:
"Psychedelic drugs – Reduced blood flow to the PCC and mPFC was observed under the administration of psilocybin. These two areas are considered to be the main nodes of the DMN. One study on the effects of LSD demonstrated that the drug desynchronizes brain activity within the DMN; the activity of the brain regions that constitute the DMN becomes less correlated."

Yes! Thank you.

 

[Foreigner]

The psychoactives in Shrooms are not toxins, one is Psilocin or 4-hydroxy DMT, a substituted tryptamine ie an analogue of DMT and the other one is Psilocybin, which is quickly metabolised into Psilocin upon ingestion.
Our @ninjapirateroberts might not be able to have a smooth ride with shrooms because his body is not playing along for some reason, or because his digestive tract doesn't like the pulp of the shrooms or some sort of contaminant that's on them and he's having a reaction that's messing up the trip.

@ninjapirateroberts, since the mushrooms were in chocolate form, you were not able to visually check them, if you want to try them again you could get just the shrooms, and then make a tea out of them, so that your body doesn't have to digest any solids and you're ruling out one of the possible issues.
If you're using stims daily that might also affect the trip, if in any way possible take a few days break before the next shroom trip.

They are definitely considered toxins. From the journal Mycobiology:

"The toxicity symptoms of psilocybin develop 30 min after ingestion of these mushrooms. Frequently reported symptoms of this intoxication include hypertension, tachycardia, visual problems, nausea, anxiety, asthenia, vertigo, mydriasis, motor incoordination, and disorientation. Psilocybin toxicity-associated problems resolve completely 4~12 hr after ingestion. Generally, hospitalization is not required and myocardial infarction in adults after intoxication with psilocybin-containing mushrooms is rare. Coma, hyperthermia, and seizures may occur in children."

This is why I dislike the body load of mushrooms. That's not to say nobody should do mushrooms, as it's unlikely to seriously harm them.

 

[Phobos]

They are definitely considered toxins. From the journal Mycobiology:

"The toxicity symptoms of psilocybin develop 30 min after ingestion of these mushrooms. Frequently reported symptoms of this intoxication include hypertension, tachycardia, visual problems, nausea, anxiety, asthenia, vertigo, mydriasis, motor incoordination, and disorientation. Psilocybin toxicity-associated problems resolve completely 4~12 hr after ingestion. Generally, hospitalization is not required and myocardial infarction in adults after intoxication with psilocybin-containing mushrooms is rare. Coma, hyperthermia, and seizures may occur in children."

This is why I dislike the body load of mushrooms. That's not to say nobody should do mushrooms, as it's unlikely to seriously harm them.

I mean technically all psychedelics are toxic.
The way I see it is that all psychedelics have the potential to be toxic, but I wouldn't consider them toxins at recreational dosages.