Why can you abuse drugs like Ritalin, but not Prozac?

[hahapotatoman]

Prozac (Fluoxetine) is an SSRI, and Ritalin (Methylphenidate) is a DRI. From what I understand, dopamine and serotonin are relatively similar, at least in how they give you pleasure. So why do SSRIs have almost no potential for abuse, but DRIs do?

 

[dragonix]

Ritalin was a favorite of mine I never found any recreational value in the SSRIs I tried there must be some Prozac poppers who take more than prescribed that has a reputation for goofy if you ask me

 

[WellTram]

I tried higher than medical doses of escitalopram or vortioxetine but escitalopram did nothing better than my prescribed dose, actually i was overheated and i had huge puppils.

Vortioxetine was much harder to start for me but holy shit, i found SSRi which finally improves my deoression with prescribed dosage (which is 20mg daily) and it has approx. 60hour half-life so its easy to go a day without it but at start i was all hyper manic and suicidle from it. But days went by and it somehow started to work and didn't stop since unlike escitalopram which was effective for 2 weeks..

 

[Nas47]

Blocking serotonin and adrenaline transporters will not increase them a lot ( or to neurontoxic degree)
So taking 1 gram of strong SERT inhibitor like anafranil will not make you high because in 10mg it block SERT 80% in 75mg SERT completely inhibited dose increasing will not give you additional effect from serotonin system, other SSRIs like prozac you need to overdose in them , between paroxetine will get it with last dose.

But in dopamine it's different, blocking dopamine transporter a lot will cause severe increase in dopamine add to that dopamine product strong effect in dose to dose ration compared to other neurotransmitters

Snorting Ritalin is neurontoxic, you can get the same effect of normal retaline dose using other med like wallbutrine it can be so euphoriant and neurontoxic with enough dosage it mostly will be multiple x10 range. But SNRIs will not overcome snras even if you multiple them trillion times.

Don't do this the niligabile affinity of weak med will start being legible (increasing the dose a loot) which will cause unexpected severe side effect and mostly death.

As i know there is only one antidepressant which is dopamine reuptake inhibitor-Welbutrin or Bupropion.Some coke addicts at some degree were able sucessfuly to transfer on it

 

[WellTram]

As i know there is only one antidepressant which is dopamine reuptake inhibitor-Welbutrin or Bupropion.Some coke addicts at some degree were able sucessfuly to transfer on it

I take 150-300 mg a day of bupropion (previously called amfebutamone). It is very good for lazy deoression but u must get used to it. At start it made me drowsy, sleepy and like.. something like deliriant-like headspace. Now it makes me more productive, makes me wake up in the morning not feeling like i just want to die but be careful, it probably works mainly on norepinephrine receptors, like 50%, dopamine receptors like 40% and the last 10 percent belongs to its actions on nicotine receptors in the brain and it can help u stop smoking.. I smoke more, but less frequently. And it has active metabolites, its potent CYP2D6 inhibitors... it is banned in Russia. Because in fact it is some cathinone which they made in labs so it can be sold at least as a antismoking, energetic, pro-sexual like kind of antidepressant. It was taken of market at least once.

 

[dalpat077]

Because serotonin syndrome gives you the shits?

 

[simstim]

Prozac (Fluoxetine) is an SSRI, and Ritalin (Methylphenidate) is a DRI. From what I understand, dopamine and serotonin are relatively similar, at least in how they give you pleasure. So why do SSRIs have almost no potential for abuse, but DRIs do?

The answer is that you have been misinformed.

Dopamine is nothing at all like serotonin. They perform completely different functions in the body. One is reinforcing and addictive and the other isn't.

Experimental animals given unlimited supplies of dopamine releasing agents will consume them compulsively until they are dead from it. They will even press the lever that gets them a dopamine high when it shocks them.

Experimental animals given serotonin releasing agents do not press the lever to administer the drug. It's not a fun, or reinforcing "high".

People like serotonin WITH dopamine as is seen with triple releasing agents like MDMA and it's relatives, however, none of the pure serotonin releasing agents developed when people were searching for non-neurotoxic alternatives to MDMA caught on at all.

 

[red22]

Related to this?

How come certain drugs (i.e. antidepressants) take days/weeks before they work?

 

[agnesangst]

i took prozac right when it first came out.i think making me 'high' and becoming undepressed were same thing.there are also secondary 'depressers' and 'cheerifiers' that come in your own behavior. i began cleaning and spiritual activities. also i took much less benzos, which are depressants. having a nice living space and feeling in tune with the divine
i do know that prozac has helped meth addicts quit meth.it sold for $5 a pill in late 80s and early 90s on the street!it is not a 'clean' SSRI and the anti-cholinegeteic effects were giving me memory problems etc..now that i am almost 70 i was leery of trying it again.but im taking it at a low dose,mainly to help me to sleep early a.m.s, with the idea that this might be part of package to prevent migraines, which i was just dxed with.
i am also taking baclofen and sometimes cannabis in afternoon.this might interfere with the antidepressant effect and hence early morning waking. when im feeling migraine starting i also take reglan which interferes with serotonin and dopamine.
i think that american society is addicted to the experience and behavior prozac induces, almost hypomanic. an euphoria that comes from achievement and activity is respected.it also can make one more dominant and i know that some sugreon interns were taking low doses to this end. so as it doesnt make one become more deviant as cannabis,benzos and opiates might, addiction might go undetected.coke and speed make people work more and only when expensive addictions spiral out of control , or used at late night parties to excess, are they objected to.mdma was prescribed for depression just a few years before i took prozac.in fact, amphetamines are still prescribed to get folk 'up and at em' willing participants in rat race.
so put that in your pipe and smoke it!

 

[emkee_reinvented]

The answer is that you have been misinformed.

Dopamine is nothing at all like serotonin. They perform completely different functions in the body. One is reinforcing and addictive and the other isn't.

Experimental animals given unlimited supplies of dopamine releasing agents will consume them compulsively until they are dead from it. They will even press the lever that gets them a dopamine high when it shocks them.

Experimental animals given serotonin releasing agents do not press the lever to administer the drug. It's not a fun, or reinforcing "high".

People like serotonin WITH dopamine as is seen with triple releasing agents like MDMA and it's relatives, however, none of the pure serotonin releasing agents developed when people were searching for non-neurotoxic alternatives to MDMA caught on at all.

MDAI was one of those MDMA alternatives. Its main action is on Serotonin, if I am correct, and I underestimated it big time. So after some trials with small doses it was time to try to get the most out of it.

A higher end dose had me floored for several hour's. All I could to was moan from time to time. It was no fun, didn't hurt me either as long as I stayed laying down motionless moaning. I think that is what a pure Serotonin releaser does. It floors you.

SSRI's take week's to start acting so they are not comperable with an immediate acting one like MDAI. 3-FEA also seemed like heavy on the Serotonin and with a stimulant in a combo it seemed fine. But as a stand alone substance.

 

[Keif' Richards]

Hey guys, I'm moving this over to Neuroscience, as I feel it's a little bit out of our depth here in BDD. If there are any objections you all know where I can be found

 

[jasperkent]

Ritalin did nothing for me. Many years ago I shot some up with buddies who swore by it. They loved it. I felt absolutely nothing.
I do like Adderall, though.

 

[jasperkent]

At some point in the '90s I was prescribed Prozac. Used it as prescribed faithfully for a year. Felt no change, good or bad. Tried abusing it, felt nothing then as well.

 

[AlphaMethylPhenyl]

Dopamine is more novelty, and serotonin more satiety. But it more depends on the receptors than on the ligands.

However, high SNRI doses can become DRIs due to the molecular similarity of norepinephrine to dopamine.

 

[agnesangst]

Prozac (Fluoxetine) is an SSRI, and Ritalin (Methylphenidate) is a DRI. From what I understand, dopamine and serotonin are relatively similar, at least in how they give you pleasure. So why do SSRIs have almost no potential for abuse, but DRIs do?

prozac is classified as an SSRI, but it is not clean;that is it does block the reuptake of other neurotransmitters to some extent, including dopamine,which is likely why it helps speed addicts get off speed.

 

[Joey]

You can abuse them, just not as much in the traditional sense. While abusing something like Prozac is something that’s not done recreationally, people do abuse it and similar antidepressants for other purposes.

You could say that the system Itself abuses them too. Spent nearly a decade on antidepressants on and off, just to be taken off for good. No good for me. Barely ever did a thing.

 

[allone]

i abuse prozac sometimes. 10x the dose with alcohol, empty the capsules under my tongue and sublingual absorption. doesnt give euphoria like most drugs BUT it makes everything shiny, its weird effect.

 

[plumbus-nine]

I get an instant antidepressant effect from venlafaxine but not from the others (fluoxetine, paroxetine, citalopram, etc). Possibly due to either its PEA like structure or because it fiddles with opioid receptors (cousin of tramadol, proven that venla works on mu).

Afaik the difference is primarily between reuptake inhibitors (all antidepressants) and releasers (amphetamines) / inverse agonists (methylphenidat et al) which flood the synapses with the targeted transmitter while RIs will hit autoreceptors and thus the neurons will re-calculate and release less to maintain homeostasis. Releasers circumvent that.

That said, there are some cases of venlafaxine and fluoxetine abuse with extreme dosages. PubMed is your friend.

 

[Nas47]

I get an instant antidepressant effect from venlafaxine but not from the others (fluoxetine, paroxetine, citalopram, etc). Possibly due to either its PEA like structure or because it fiddles with opioid receptors (cousin of tramadol, proven that venla works on mu).

Afaik the difference is primarily between reuptake inhibitors (all antidepressants) and releasers (amphetamines) / inverse agonists (methylphenidat et al) which flood the synapses with the targeted transmitter while RIs will hit autoreceptors and thus the neurons will re-calculate and release less to maintain homeostasis. Releasers circumvent that.

That said, there are some cases of venlafaxine and fluoxetine abuse with extreme dosages. PubMed is your friend.

There are cases of coaxil abuses too,which is AD drug with low mu afinitet

 

[Skorpio]

There are cases of coaxil abuses too,which is AD drug with low mu afinitet

Tianeptine is a proper mu agonist. Low efficacy (and possibly some biased agonism going on), but the theories about it having any serotonergic activity have fallen out of favor once it's mu agonism was recognized (also the fact that naloxone abolishes it's antidepressant activities).

I honestly feel the classification of "selective serotonin reuptake enhancer" was a placeholder as they did not recognize the mechanism of action at the time (and the serotonin hypothesis of depression was in vogue more maybe 10 years ago).

prozac is classified as an SSRI, but it is not clean;that is it does block the reuptake of other neurotransmitters to some extent, including dopamine,which is likely why it helps speed addicts get off speed.

Prozac has a negligable binding affinity at the dopamine transporter (over 4,000 times weaker than its affinity at the serotonin transporter). It's active metabolite norfluoxetine has a higher affinity at DAT, but it is still 400 times weaker than the prozac's affinity at the serotonin transporter.

This means that to bind to 50 percent of the transporters you would need to take 4,000 to 400 times the dose needed to inhibit serotonin transport by 50%, which would be a fatal overdose.

As serotonin reuptake inhibitors go, fluoxetine is rather selective.

Although, it does induce pretty interesting changes in GABAergic neurosteroid production, which makes it rather more anxiolytic than other SSRIs.