Who is your favorite philosopher / intellectual / societal influencer or commentator?

[wareika]

what would you recommend of this?
he wrote quite a lot isn't it?
I don't know where to start when it's related with esoteric knowledge since I consider it quite confusing for the most part

Definitely do not begin with Gurdjieff's own works. Everyone, even long term students of this system would agree with that.
They are esoteric & byzantine as to be almost inscrutable. Almost The word sci-fi is often used to describe the flavour. He was a very enigmatic 'dude'. It was face to face with his students that he imparted his teachimgs, & was known for his bluntness, so not a mumbo jumbo teacher at all. But his students and their writings are the best entry point.

I forgot to mention 'In search of the miraculous' by Ouspensky as a solid introduction too.

You may not catch the bug sts but i would be curious to hear any thoughts you have, since youre very educated in philosophy. I missed that train!

 

[deficiT]

Marx and Lenin

Hell yeah. Have read a lot of both of their material. I don't know that I consider myself a Leninist, but I certainly appreciate his theories and take a lot of inspiration from Marxism.

For Buddhist stuff I like Thich Nhat Hanh, for anarchism I like Pierre Proudhoun and Peter Kropotkin. For Taoist stuff I like Lao Zu of course. For general modern "philosophy/humor" I like both Bill Hicks and George Carlin a hell of a lot.

 

[mtu mwendawazimu]

Bill burr

 

[deficiT]

i love when people hold sign that say, "look, im fucking dumb as bricks"

What you get your analysis of capitalism from Ayn Rand? Bricks don't have brains so they're not "dumb" they are inorganic objects. Very useful things though, they form buildings and shit. So I'm going to take this as a compliment.

 

[December Flower]

Those are very different categories

My favourite philosopher is Immanuel Kant
My favourite intellectual is Nicola Tesla
My favourite "societal influencer"(if i understand that correctly) is Fürst Otto Eduard Leopold von Bismarck-Schönhausen
& my favourite commentator is Bartolo da Sassoferrato?

 

[Neuroborean]

since youre very educated in philosophy

Well, I consider myself somewhat educated, not very much cause I studied philosophy in college and after finishing I didn't read in a while, now I'm reading again, but just for "fun", not so seriously.
Well it was always for fun, but college made me reluctant for a while after years of reading crap instead of good stuff.

 

[jasperkent]

I'm sticking to the last 100 years.

Joseph Campbell
Carl Sagan
Martin Luther King Jr
Gloria Steinem
George Carlin
Jon Stewart
Stephen Colbert

Edit: I fully recognize the fact that my list is mostly white, mostly male, heavily comedic, and all American. These are people who strongly influenced me personally, not necessarily the whole world.

 

[Mjäll]

What you get your analysis of capitalism from Ayn Rand? Bricks don't have brains so they're not "dumb" they are inorganic objects. Very useful things though, they form buildings and shit. So I'm going to take this as a compliment.

Dumb as a brick is a simple idiom.

Do you consider Ayn Rand a worse person than Lenin or why bring her up?

 

[deficiT]

Dumb as a brick is a simple idiom.

Do you consider Ayn Rand a worse person than Lenin or why bring her up?

A worse philosopher, surely. Less accomplished, surely. I haven't met either personally but at least I've seen Lenin smile in a photograph.

 

[Mjäll]

A worse philosopher, surely. Less accomplished, surely. I haven't met either personally but at least I've seen Lenin smile in a photograph.

Do you realize that Lenin was a politician whose ideas were tested in real life, resulting in misery?

What is good about Lenin? And how come you think namedropping writer Ayn Rand is a legitimate defense when someone criticizes your idolization of actual evil?

How do you react when people quote Hitler as a favorite thinker?

 

[deficiT]

Do you realize that Lenin was a politician whose ideas were tested in real life, resulting in misery?

What is good about Lenin? And how come you think namedropping writer Ayn Rand is a legitimate defense when someone criticizes your idolization of actual evil?

How do you react when people quote Hitler as a favorite thinker?

Yeah, his ideas were tested and it resulted in the USSR quickly becoming a global superpower through the groundwork he helped lay, with all of the pitfalls that come from civil wars, revolutions, famines, and other factors that he couldn't mitigate as one human man in a tidal wave. Lenin was not some dictator, he led a working class revolution in which many people took efforts to change the way in which a very large society functioned. I do not idolize the man, and he is not "actually evil", I actually critically examine the part he plays in history, the good and the bad, with a much more nuanced view than capitalist apologists like yourself are likely capable of.

I name dropped Ayn Rand because the bourgeois ideology she was a proponent of is just flaccid, navel gazing, armchair philosophy that pales in comparison to either the works of Marx or Lenin, or any number of philosophers honestly. Sorry her books are poor quality, and conservatives put her work on a pedestal You know the term "he wrote the book on that"? Well, Marx very much wrote the book on capitalism. He didn't simply decry it, he fully analyzed it and came to the understanding that it was a flawed, but very much necessary progression in the social evolution of our species. He also showed that it would cause a ton of human suffering as well as progress, and ding ding ding, of course he was right, and of course Lenin was right in his works, particularly if you read Imperialism, it's a great way to dissect how world economies and militaries function moving into the 20th and 21st centuries.

Do we compare Adam Smith to Hitler? Do we compare George Washington to Hitler? No, we don't, but one could surely write many papers pinning all sorts of death and misery on those folks and their ideologies. The Soviet Union are the ones that defeated Hitler. Countries are not monoliths, and this idea that history is moved forward by these single great men is flawed and it is ignorant of the actual social element that makes up so much of the human experience that we have recorded.

He wasn't criticizing my beliefs he was literally calling me dumb as a brick for praising some of the most noteworthy and important theorists and figures in modern political history, without any actual understanding of my beliefs So I used Rand as a figure of ridicule because many people who seem to only believe base capitalist propaganda and double think seem to have a fondness for her.

But I see I must have struck a nerve somewhere, since of course the first thing you do after seeing someone throw personal insults at me is simp for Ayn Rand and compare Lenin to Hitler.

 

[Mjäll]

Yeah, his ideas were tested and it resulted in the USSR quickly becoming a global superpower through the groundwork he helped lay, with all of the pitfalls that come from civil wars, revolutions, famines, and other factors that he couldn't mitigate as one human man in a tidal wave. Lenin was not some dictator, he led a working class revolution in which many people took efforts to change the way in which a very large society functioned. I do not idolize the man, and he is not "actually evil", I actually critically examine the part he plays in history, the good and the bad, with a much more nuanced view than capitalist apologists like yourself are likely capable of.

I name dropped Ayn Rand because the bourgeois ideology she was a proponent of is just flaccid, navel gazing, armchair philosophy that pales in comparison to either the works of Marx or Lenin, or any number of philosophers honestly. Sorry her books are poor quality, and conservatives put her work on a pedestal You know the term "he wrote the book on that"? Well, Marx very much wrote the book on capitalism. He didn't simply decry it, he fully analyzed it and came to the understanding that it was a flawed, but very much necessary progression in the social evolution of our species. He also showed that it would cause a ton of human suffering as well as progress, and ding ding ding, of course he was right, and of course Lenin was right in his works, particularly if you read Imperialism, it's a great way to dissect how world economies and militaries function moving into the 20th and 21st centuries.

Do we compare Adam Smith to Hitler? Do we compare George Washington to Hitler? No, we don't, but one could surely write many papers pinning all sorts of death and misery on those folks and their ideologies. The Soviet Union are the ones that defeated Hitler. Countries are not monoliths, and this idea that history is moved forward by these single great men is flawed and it is ignorant of the actual social element that makes up so much of the human experience that we have recorded.

He wasn't criticizing my beliefs he was literally calling me dumb as a brick for praising some of the most noteworthy and important theorists and figures in modern political history, without any actual understanding of my beliefs So I used Rand as a figure of ridicule because many people who seem to only believe base capitalist propaganda and double think seem to have a fondness for her.

But I see I must have struck a nerve somewhere, since of course the first thing you do after seeing someone throw personal insults at me is simp for Ayn Rand and compare Lenin to Hitler.

You're writing a lengthy response without making sure what you're responding to.

Did i "simp" for Ayn Rand? Where? You brought her up.

Not sure why you make a point downplaying the value of "single great men" while also defending the merits of one single man who also happened to be a perpetrator of historical evil. Seems unnecessary and confusing.

Try and keep it brief, please. I'm looking for a response to the points, not a monologue.

Almost every single one of your collectivist comrades would happily declare someone "dumb as bricks" for quoting Hitler as a thinker, or even Ayn Rand. You do get that, right? It gives a certain impression of hypocrisy and arrogance each time someone quotes a known communist perpetrator as some great thinker.

 

[deficiT]

You're writing a lengthy response without making sure what you're responding to.

Did i "simp" for Ayn Rand? Where? You brought her up.

Not sure why you make a point downplaying the value of "single great men" while also defending the merits of one single man who also happened to be a perpetrator of historical evil. Seems unnecessary and confusing.

Try and keep it brief, please. I'm looking for a response to the points, not a monologue.

Almost every single one of your collectivist comrades would happily declare someone "dumb as bricks" for quoting Hitler as a thinker, or even Ayn Rand. You do get that, right? It gives a certain impression of hypocrisy and arrogance each time someone quotes a known communist perpetrator as some great thinker.

I literally responded to what you said. Ok so you didn't simp for ayn rand. Ok, white knight for ayn rand? Devil's advocate for the closest billionaire in a five mile radius? I can't surmise what you're getting at so I'm doing the best with what I got.

Dude you're on a web forum, talking about history and philosophy, two famously heady and weighty topics telling me to keep my answers brief, and I'm the one being arrogant? You asked a question and I answered it lmao.

Ok, communism = bad, now I get it. Makes sense. Thanks for the lesson.

 

[Mjäll]

I literally responded to what you said. Ok so you didn't simp for ayn rand. Ok, white knight for ayn rand? Devil's advocate for the closest billionaire in a five mile radius? I can't surmise what you're getting at so I'm doing the best with what I got.

Dude you're on a web forum, talking about history and philosophy, two famously heady and weighty topics telling me to keep my answers brief, and I'm the one being arrogant? You asked a question and I answered it lmao.

Ok, communism = bad, now I get it. Makes sense. Thanks for the lesson.

Are you not understanding my simple sentences? I pointed out the absurdity in referencing writer Ayn Rand as a "point of ridicule" while defending mass murderer Vladimir Lenin. That was my only reason for mentioning your mentioning of Ayn Rand. I don't personally rely on Ayn Rand whatsoever. Her books seem to be a dense literary packaging of basic libertarian principles, a waste of my time. I probably will never read her books or bring her up as an intellectual reference.

Do you understand that you're the one who brought up Ayn Rand and that you did so in a kneejerk comparison to try and make your love for Lenin look less bad?

Yeah of course communism is bad. Your point being...?

 

[AbbeyLee]

 

[deficiT]

Are you not understanding my simple sentences? I pointed out the absurdity in referencing writer Ayn Rand as a "point of ridicule" while defending mass murderer Vladimir Lenin. That was my only reason for mentioning your mentioning of Ayn Rand. I don't personally rely on Ayn Rand whatsoever. Her books seem to be a dense literary packaging of basic libertarian principles, a waste of my time. I probably will never read her books or bring her up as an intellectual reference.

Do you understand that you're the one who brought up Ayn Rand and that you did so in a kneejerk comparison to try and make your love for Lenin look less bad?

Yeah of course communism is bad. Your point being...?

Do you not understand that the title of this thread is literally "Who is your favorite philosopher / intellectual / societal influencer or commentator?" And I was responding to THAT prompt?

Do you not understand that Lenin is at heart a political theorist??

He has an incredibly expansive bibliography and wrote volumes upon volumes of works? Like he fits so neatly into the broad jumble of words "
philosopher / intellectual / societal influencer or commentator" that the irony of even having to explain this to someone claiming some kind of intellectual high ground is breaking my brain.

I have no desire to "make my love for Lenin look less bad" dude I'm literally just talking about figures in history and philosophers I have enjoyed reading... I'm sorry my understanding of shit involves nuance and I don't have a black/white view of socialism/capitalism and history aka communism killed a hundred million billion peepoolleee. Why are you telling me what my motivations are for saying the things I say? We are circling the drain lol

 

[lonelyDude]

Bach

he has taught me more about the beauty of life than anyone and didnt even have to say a word.

 

[Mjäll]

Do you not understand that the title of this thread is literally "Who is your favorite philosopher / intellectual / societal influencer or commentator?" And I was responding to THAT prompt?

Do you not understand that Lenin is at heart a political theorist??

He has an incredibly expansive bibliography and wrote volumes upon volumes of works? Like he fits so neatly into the broad jumble of words "
philosopher / intellectual / societal influencer or commentator" that the irony of even having to explain this to someone claiming some kind of intellectual high ground is breaking my brain.

I have no desire to "make my love for Lenin look less bad" dude I'm literally just talking about figures in history and philosophers I have enjoyed reading... I'm sorry my understanding of shit involves nuance and I don't have a black/white view of socialism/capitalism and history aka communism killed a hundred million billion peepoolleee. Why are you telling me what my motivations are for saying the things I say? We are circling the drain lol

What makes you jump to the conclusion that i don't know that Lenin has written books or that your mentioning of Lenin was on topic? I have done nothing to show such ignorance, and you have no reason to assume it. Again you are demonstrating your lack of arguments by making a strawman instead of responding to simple points.

Regarding your motivations for mentioning Rand, i'm not speculating. You have even stated yourself that you mentioned Rand in order to ridicule.

 

[thegreenhand]

kahlil gibran influenced my thinking on the role of religion in quite a profound way

 

[Mjäll]

kahlil gibran influenced my thinking on the role of religion in quite a profound way

"The prophet" is a great book, admirably brief.