Lysergamides White fluff LSD vs Needlepoint LSD

[Ismene]

From your made up logic to support your clearly false statement

Explain why you think it's false.

The only dangerous and harmful statement I've read so far is your deluded claim that DMT and psilocybin are "highly toxic".

 

[abrad84]

"All three are completely inactive: d-iso-LSD shows no psychological changes at an oral dose of 4 milligrams; l-LSD none at up to 10 milligrams orally; and l-iso-LSD none at 500 micrograms orally."

The rest of the quote makes it quite a lot clearer what he means.

Yes, he means all of them were completely inactive He only assayed iso-LSD up to 500ug and found no activity.

]There are four different possibilities of spatial arrangement of atoms in the LSD molecule. They are differentiated in technical language by the prefix isoand the letters D and L. Besides LSD, which is more precisely designated as D-lysergic acid diethylamide, I have also produced and likewise tested in selfexperiments the three other spatially different forms, namely D-isolysergic acid diethylamide (iso-LSD), L-lysergic acid diethylamide (L-LSD), and L-isolysergic acid diethylamide (L-iso-LSD). The last three forms of LSD showed no psychic effects up to a dose of 0.5 mg, which corresponds to a 20-fold quantity of a still distinctly active LSD dose.

Hofmann found no activity either.

 

[amanitadine]

The Grateful Dead was such an awful scene. Thank god that's over. I braved the parking lots to buy LSD but man, that was a rough trade. Buncha ding bats and totally underwhelming music.

 

[buildersoftime]

does anyone know what would effect the come up time? i have had batches("white on white", blotter art, liquid, dots) that you can feel within 45 mins and by 75 mins your peaking, and other batches(always "white on white") that take up to 2 hours to even start to come up, many people noted this with the same batches. both batches test the same on the ehrlich reagent and seem to be about the same strength durring the peak. same visuals, same headspace, but one lasts 6-8 hours and the other lasts nearly 12 hours.

Have you read the last 7 pages? LSD is LSD. The time it takes to come up is a function of how full your stomach is, your personal metabolic quirks, the power of suggestion, etc, etc.

The Grateful Dead was such an awful scene. Thank god that's over. I braved the parking lots to buy LSD but man, that was a rough trade. Buncha ding bats and totally underwhelming music.

Yup. I've tried REALLY hard to see why people obsess over their music. I've tried listening to it on acid, I've read about their music on the chance that I was missing some of the finer subtleties, I've looked into their historical roots and influences. But I don't get it. It's just barely arranged crap. Sorry if I've insulted anybody's religious sensibilities.

 

[Transform]

Personal attacks will not be tolerated. By all means discuss the topic at hand, but we will happily give out more warnings if need be.

 

[pmoseman]

Explain why you think it's false.

The only dangerous and harmful statement I've read so far is your deluded claim that DMT and psilocybin are "highly toxic".

I would only repeat what I said before. You can read my earlier comments.
http://www.erowid.org/library/books_online/tihkal/tihkal26.shtml
http://www.erowid.org/chemicals/dob/dob_journal1.shtml
The links above talk about drugs at micro doses.They go on blotter.
Your statement was that blotter size drugs did not exist other than LSD.
.....
Things that kill animals at small doses are considered toxic. It does not matter how much you need to get high. The lower the LD50 the higher the toxicity.

 

[red22]

Lysergic acid amide is active in as little as 500 mcg,[1] likely a bit lower. 500 mcg can easily fit on a blotter. It is possible that ergoloid impuriti(ies) make it onto the blotter. One thing to consider is that because LSD itself causes vasoconstriction[2], any additional ergoloids would only need to provide an increase to already-present vasoconstriction. Another question is, could a semisynthetic impurity be much stronger than its naturally-occurring source? Such is the case with LSD, afterall.
-------------

Acid=LSD-25

There are several synthesis for the production of LSD-25 not just one.
See papavars thread LSD Manufacture for some of them.
LSD-25 is acid ,there arn't different chemicals that can be acid.
It's either LSD or it isn't. There are different kinds of crystal of different purity's, but they are all LSD-25, just some are more pure than others. See my thread called LSD Crystal to blotter. I give 7 different kinds there.
There are analouges of LSD-25 but there not acid.
Sorry if this is confusing ,but people need to understand that LSD is a chemical and it's the purity that changes from batch to batch not the chemical structure of LSD.

3/30/03
chinacat72
http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/1418717#1418717


Only ~30% of the the crude product is LSD, the rest are these inactive isomers and some side reaction products as well. These impurities are only inactive in the brain, they have many effects on the body that contribute to the "body load" or "roughness" of the trip. I am certain that "bad acid" is unpurified crude product, containing a mixture of the aforementioned molecules and LSD. Acid needs to be purified via chromatography twice, once on silica to remove the side reaction products and leftover reactants, and a second time using a chiral substrate to separate the active isomers from the inactive ones. Large, professional labs could easily accomplish this, but smaller, less professional labs might forgo this and create what you call "bad acid".

I am a chemist who has illicitly synthesized d-lysergic acid diethylamide AMA
1/2/14 - hofmannwouldbeproud


The one time I worked with champagne crystal I felt like I was poisoned. It was black nasty shit and I only ate a tiny speck not a thumbprint.

2/2/04
chinacat72
http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/2293999#2293999


At burning man he knowingly gave away a really bad batch of LSD; you know the muddy black stuff. It caused several people to go into convulsions.

Krystle Cole speaking about Todd Skinner. Interviewed by James L. Kent.
http://www.tripzine.com/listing.php?smlid=469


[1]See page 209.
Albert Hofmann. The active principles of the seeds of Rivea Corymbosa and Ipomoea violacea. Botanical Museum Leaflets (Harvard University), 20, 6, 194–211 (1963).


[2]See page 775.
Stoll, A. and Hofmann, A. (1965) The ergot alkaloids: R.H.F. Manske (ed.), The Alkaloids, Vol. VIII, Academic Press, New York, Chap. 21

[1] [2]

 

[AcidTrippin]

You don't still read into that ChinaCat shit do you?

 

[Ismene]

Your statement was that blotter size drugs did not exist other than LSD.

But get it in context pmose we're talking about LSD and drugs that may be similar. There's no drug active at blotter doses that's remotely like LSD. No-one but a moron is going to confuse DOM with LSD. They're completely different experiences. Al-lad and LSZ could be confused with LSD but they've only been available for about a year. Y'follow? Is the fog lifting?

Things that kill animals at small doses are considered toxic

No, the toxicity of a substance is the degree to which it causes damage to the organism. The toxicity of taking human level doses of DMT or psilocybin is negligible. Water in small doses kills animals - does that mean you consider water toxic too?

 

[red22]

There's no drug active at blotter doses that's remotely like LSD.

I proved this statement wrong in my post above.

 

[pmoseman]

Ya the fog has lifted, or I gouged my eyes out. Does this mean spoons are toxic?
I like you Ismene, other than your cool name, you keep conversations alive. We could never run out of things to talk about. I know if I were a lone survivor trapped in space, the computer would choose you as my halogram partner, to keep me sane. Unfortunately I am not a toxicologist.
Ask the computer, "acute oral toxicity" seems the most relevant.

 

[Ismene]

I proved this statement wrong in my post above.

Not sure about that red. You quoted chinacat and Krystal Cole (isn't she "neurosoup"? The chick who got locked up for grassing on someone? The one who says she puts freebase DMT up her anus in butter? I don't think she's quite a world-renowned expert yet). That's a long way from proof I'm afraid.

I like you Ismene.

You're growing on me too pmose.

 

[red22]

Not sure about that red. You quoted chinacat and Krystal Cole (isn't she "neurosoup"? The chick who got locked up for grassing on someone? The one who says she puts freebase DMT up her anus in butter? I don't think she's quite a world-renowned expert yet). That's a long way from proof I'm afraid.

What about my statement in the post?

 

[buildersoftime]

Please please please can this argument be put to bed?

It can be completely summed up as follows :

1) people talk shit
2) LSD makes you imagine things

THE END

 

[Ismene]

What about my statement in the post?

Which one red? I agree with the one where you say LSD is LSD. Then you get into the chinacat stuff and my eyes glazed over.

 

[red22]

That was actually a part of chinacat72's post. My post is above that and is separated by this: ----------


I point out that Hofmann got effects from lysergic acid amide in a dose of 500 mcg. That's pretty low on the scale, and it suggests that other ergoloids have similar potency (and they only need to have somatic effects -- not psychological). And I think that other semi-synthetic ergoloids can be generated in an LSD synthesis; and they would be especially strong -- as is LSD. And I don't think that an analysis has ever been done to detect these...or if it was done: that it was ever published (very little incentive). And another reason bad acid has escaped analysis is that it's especially rare, as most LSD is made by a select few individuals.

 

[Ismene]

I still don't think they'd overpower the effects of any dose whatsoever of LSD tho - so unless the blotter was entirely consisting of the mysterious acid amide you'd still be feeling the effects of the acid.

And the other question is how you sell blotter that has no effects other than a slight headache. I can't see you being able to sell many of them. It would be akin to selling blank blotter - eventually the guy you sold 60,000 doses to is going to come back and see you with a pair of pliers and a blowtorch.

 

[PriestTheyCalledHim]

Owsley examined marketing considerations and decided to vary the dye on the crystal, instead of using only one shade. He took five ordinary food colourings, as approved by the Food and Drugs Administration for the food industry, and divided the LSD into 3,600 doses per gram. Each gram was split into five, mixed with dye and put into capsules. Although there was no difference between the capsules, the street dealers reported back that the users were giving the colours different qualities: red was considered laid back; green frantic; and blue the ideal compromise. Point Richmond began churning out 'Blue Cheer', as the capsules were dubbed by users.


Stewart Tendler and David May. The Brotherhood of Eternal Love. Chapter 6: Outlaw Days

Yes it's very true that the different types of LSD, crystals, etc. are all just about brands, marketing, and about making the most money possible. It was like that even in the 60s and early 70s from what old head friends who took LSD then told me. It's still like this today.

I'd still lean towards the simple answer first tho - that LSD has a vast range of effects all by itself because that's obvious every time you trip. You trip on one blotter one week and feel great, you take the same blotter 2 weeks later and feel shit. That's a pretty big range of effects.

To me, that sounds more likely than mysterious inactives being activated by LSD into becoming more powerful than LSD.

Indeed LSD does have a very wide variety of effects. Not everyone reacts to it the same way either. I know people who took LSD and all of their friends had a psychedelic experience with visuals; but they had more of a mental experience and never experienced any visuals at all.

The LSD they took was not fake, dosed very low, or another drug as they took the same LSD as everyone else did; but they just reacted to it differently.

 

[DrGreenthumb]

I had never considered this but it's actually a really good point. What if the stuff we're describing as "clean-feeling" actually feels that way because of impurities.

Edit: As we all know this is a heated topic and I would appreciate if posters could try to refrain from making purely inflammatory posts. You won't convince anyone if you get them angry or irritated, and additionally it does not make for a nice forum atmosphere.

Surely if there was an even more recreational chemical that was a common impurity in LSD we'd know what it is by now.

Also, interesting read here: https://www.erowid.org/chemicals/lsd/lsd_writings1.shtml

 

[PriestTheyCalledHim]

Surely if there was an even more recreational chemical that was a common impurity in LSD we'd know what it is by now.

Also, interesting read here: https://www.erowid.org/chemicals/lsd/lsd_writings1.shtml

That erowid link was funny mainly because it's very dated, full of silly misinformation about LSD like how Leary thought certain brands of it had speed or amphetamine in them when even if they hypothetically did the dosage would have been so tiny it wouldn't have worked, and why would a chemist put another drug into one that was going to be sold and give it away for free?

This link shows how Sandoz LSD, was just the same as any other type of LSD.
https://www.erowid.org/chemicals/lsd/lsd_article2.shtml